Talk:Boys' Brigade

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1 Girls' Brigade
2 Article tidy-up
3 External links
4 izes and ises
5 Part of scouting discussion?
6 No
7 National Articles
8 External Links (Jan 2007)
9 Global differences
10 The cross and the BB logo
11 World's First Uniformed Youth Organisation
12 Boys' Brigade Wikiproject
13 good day
14 Fair use rationale for Image:Discover logo RGB.jpg
15 Fair use rationale for Image:Discoverybadge.jpg
16 Fair use rationale for Image:Communitylevel1.jpg
17 Fair use rationale for Image:Compassbadge.jpg
18 Fair use rationale for Image:Challenge plus logo.jpg
19 Northern Ireland

[edit] Girls' Brigade

There's no article for the Girls' Brigade! I am scandalised! Helen.

- Well... write one!  That's what it's all about!

Just a note: I altered the description of the Staff Sergeant's stripes based on personal experience and my copy of the Brigade Uniform Regulations. Staff Sergeants wear their stripes point up level with the bottom of their right shirt sleeve, in distinction to other non-commissioned ranks who wear theirs pointing down on the upper right arm. Killiedaft 01:21, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article tidy-up

I've done a fairly thorough proof-read and edit of the whole article - some grammar fixes and sentence structure improvements. Also started trying to split the article into sections but I think more work is needed on the "History" part. As a Junior section leader, I've also updated the description of the awards scheme. Halsteadk 22:26, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] External links

The external links list is getting rather too long - Wikipedia is not supposed to be a links repository! I'm afraid this probably means removing the links for individual companies, on the basis that there is no reason to provide links for these companies and not others, and it would be unfeasible to provide links to all companies. (It is perhaps also worth noting that the vast majority, if not all, of these links has been added by anonymous users.) I'd suggest that links are only provided to the national BB organisations and that there is then no need to have country sub-headings. Halsteadk 22:26, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] izes and ises

This old chestnut is a perennial discussion. the suffix "ize" is not an American trait. Most words in British English that end with this suffix can be "ise" or "ize" (there are some exceptions as there are words that should end in "ise" in American English. In fact the OED prefers the use of "ize" as do many accademic sources. [1]. "ise" in British/commonwealth English seems to have crept into use more over the course of the latter twentieth century (find any old English dictionary and you will srtuggle to find "ise"). It has reached such ubiquity outside accademic circles that many British/Commonwealth readers often mistake the "ize" as Ameircan. Most dictionaries now list both suffixes as acceptable in British English, but if we are writning an international project and we have a choive it makes sense to use the spelling that would be usiversally acceptable to all English Speakers and matches other existing links (IMO the rule should also apply to examples such as Gaol and Jail in British English and Ketchup and Catsup in American English). Dainamo 13:05, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Part of scouting discussion?

I think that the Boys' Brigade stands strong enough in its own right with its own past present and future and thusly should not be labled as just part of the history of scouting.

[edit] No

Im sorry, the BB is not part of the scouts, because it is older than the scouts and therefore should have its own WikiProgect for the Brigades as it is known to members of it.

--Joshuarooney2006 14:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem is lack of members, but great idea and I would be happy to help. theKeith Talk! 15:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Baden Powell was inspired by his friend William Smith's creation of the Boys' Brigade and was involved at ealry stage (I need citations here and will find some) Hence the Boy's Brigade is integral to the creation of scouting. In the early part of the twentieth century there were boy;s brigade scouts, although they were a parrallel development to Baden-powell's scouts not a precursor. Dainamo 11:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

--sy278 08:57, 21 February 2008 (UTC) As the boys' brigade pre-dates the Scout movement, it should have its own wikiproject, with the scouts also having its own with both crosslinked.

If we can organise this I am happy to assist.

[edit] National Articles

Seeing as the BB is an global movement with different rules, structures, etc. in different countries, wouldn't it make sense to have national articles?

Someone has started a page for the Boys' Brigade in Malaysia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Axfangli (talk • contribs) 13:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] External Links (Jan 2007)

Pleased to see that someone has removed all of the company links from this article. If you are thinking of adding such a link please DO NOT - if one company is linked then potentially ALL must be linked and it is not the purpose of Wikipedia to be a links repository. Links I have removed a link to a New Zealand company that had been re-added and added some hidden comments relating to what should not be added, and put a note in the section about where to find links to companies. Halsteadk 13:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Why remove the links ? They could (probably should) be removed into a seperate article that lists companies, either with external links or with stubs. If every little hamlet in the world and youth team footballer is worth a stud then surely most BB companies are also ? Hackerjack 20:33, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I think removing the links and avoiding a collection of stubs makes sense. Our primary reason for publishing on Wikipedia is to let others -- especially non-Brigadiers -- know what the BB is. Presentation is important in helping them efficiently understand the history and nature of the BB.

Sure, we can make a stub for each company, but I think readers would likely get frustrated by the countless times they're presented with an article stating only, "The n-th Somewhere Company was founded in this year at this place by this person." Of course, if someone has "special" information about a company (e.g. Company X started a tradition which is now observed worldwide), then that should certainly be made known.

The BB Directory maintains a list of companies; We can point this out on the articles. I think maintaining a huge list in Wikipedia would be overwhelming... A casual reader would not click on all of them, and a person who's looking for a specific company would be better off searching the Directory. What do you think? Axfangli 11:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Global differences

The global nature of the BB movement makes it extremely difficult to have a unified system. I think this should be kept in mind when adding to the article.

My last edit to the Leadership section is based on what I know about the Malaysian, Australian and British BB hierarchy. From my (limited) research, Colour Sergeant and Drum Major are not NCO ranks (see http://www.boys-brigade.org.uk/leaders/library/regs/regs.htm) so I have removed them.

I am aware of the possibility that other countries might have adopted their own system though. If this is the case, please indicate this in your edit.

Another possibility to consider is that a company might have made their own changes which are not in accordance to their national regulations. It's happened before (see paragraph 8 in http://members.aol.com/bbashhton/spelt.html) so please be careful!

Axfangli 06:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The cross and the BB logo

In my last edit, I removed the mentions of the Geneva cross and the Red Cross to simplify the sentences. Does anyone think this might be an issue?

I have a hunch that the Boys' Life Brigade derived its emblem from that of the Red Cross movement, but have no proof or disproof. Does anyone have any info on this? Axfangli 13:29, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] World's First Uniformed Youth Organisation

I'm a BB Officer, but even I don't try to kid myself on that we are the World's First Uniformed Youth Organisation!!! After all, while we celebrate our 125th Anniversary in 2008, the Combined Cadet Force and Army Cadet Force celebrate their 150th in 2010. The Sea Cadet Corps is even older. So I wish people wouldn't keep going on about the BB being "older than everyone else"!!! Bob Cowan 14:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I think its pretty nuanced. The BB does seem to be the oldest non-governmental uniformed organisation set up specifically for young people that has essentially remained without a broken history to date. Maybe that's what was originally meant when the tagline "First for Boys" was originally mooted for the Centenary celebrations in 1983. -- Bob K 22:56, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The exact terminology used in the book; Sure & Stedfast : A history of the Boys' Brigade, 1883-1983; published by Collins in 1983, is:

.. the world's first successful voluntary uniformed youth organization .. (emphasis theirs)

That probably explains why it isn't technically incorrect to refer to the BB as the World's First Uniformed Youth Organisation per se. - Bob K 12:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boys' Brigade Wikiproject

Bob K 23:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC) If I can get some folks who are willing to give this a go, I'll start a new Wikiproject for the Boys' Brigade. I think the size and diversity of the movement worldwide justifies this move.

t·e » 23:17, 5 May 2007 (UTC) Great idea, we've been in the shadow of the Scouting WikiProject for too long now! I'll help out where I can. « Keith

sy278 09:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC) I am willing to assist in this, it's time for us to stand alone, especially in our 125th year.

[edit] good day

i am oderinde abiodun from nigeria and this is my first time among the worlds brigade. i just want to ask if i can give in the little i have and as well learn from you. i am the parade commandant of my company 14 abokuta batalion conpany of the boy brigade.

Sure you are, Now go back to school and stop trolling on wikipedia. Zanusi 09:21, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Discover logo RGB.jpg

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BetacommandBot 05:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Discoverybadge.jpg

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Communitylevel1.jpg

Image:Communitylevel1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

BetacommandBot 05:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Compassbadge.jpg

Image:Compassbadge.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

BetacommandBot 06:08, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Challenge plus logo.jpg

Image:Challenge plus logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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[edit] Northern Ireland

The boy's brigade in Northern Ireland is pretty much exclusively a protestant unionist organisation. Usually ran in Orange halls or presbyterian halls and not inclusive of the catholic youth. The runners habitually fly union jacks and other loyalist flags especially when taking formal group photographs. To be honest up until reading this article I was unaware of the Boy's Brigade being anything other than an organisation for the loyalist youth. It is almost completely viewed by the catholic community as an organisation for forming good little unionists on their way to being good orange men, and not as an inclusive christian organisation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.253.16 (talk) 23:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment from a former Boys'Brigade member, and father of a current member - in other words not from an "official" BB source. Boys' Brigade companies are church based. I can not think of any which meet in Orange halls. I can't see what is sinister about Presbyterian (or Methodist or Baptist) church halls that they should be singled out by this author. Boys from any denomination should be welcome - but we live in a province where social and activity segregation have become deeply ingrained. BB flags are simple and obvious - the Union flag and effectively a blue ensign, with the BB crest added - hardly "loyalist flags". Perhaps the BB should be viewed for what it is - an organisation to encourage young men to retain a church connection. Mpd64 (talk) 18:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)