Talk:Boyash
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"Their origins are unclear, but it is believed they were slaves in the Banat, where they were forced to abandon their language and to adopt the Romanian language". I have a problem with this sentence, as in Banat Romanians were peasants, not slaveholders. Until 1918 Banat belonged to Austro-Hungary, the landlords were mainly of hungarian or german origin. Romanian language was not official in Banat in 19th century, who could force the boyash to adopt this language? I live in Banat, but I didn't heard that in this region slavery ever existed. I believe that those "boyash" are not gipsies, but nomadic Romanians. Marius
Banat does not bellonged to Wallachia or Moldavia. It is a separate territory that was split in 1918 between Romania (2/3) and Yugoslavia (1/3). Walachia and Moldavia are also Romanian territories, in those territories slavery of gypsies existed indeed, but it seems that "boyash" dialect has similarities with the Romanian dialect from Banat, not from Moldavia or Walachia. Marius
- Why do you say this? I suppose others may come to say that it is most close to the Romanian speech from Dobrogea or Maramureş. The life of Boyash in Wallachia or Moldavia is as documented as the fact that Columbus discovered America in 1492. If you saw that text from the article you have to notice that it is from Yugoslavian Banat proper, so it is obviously influenced by the Romanian speech from that area, the same as the Boyash speech from Moldavia has certain resemblances with the speech of ethnic Romanians from that region. Desiphral देसीफ्राल talk-फेन मा 08:44, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- I had seen that the article was changed, and boyash are not considered any more slaves from Banat but slaves from Walachia and Moldavia. There are still some things to clarify: - is boyash dialect close with Banat Romanian dialect or with Walachian or Moldavian Romanian dialect? I am not a specialist, but from the example shown it seems is closer with Banat dialect (I live in Banat, but my native language is standard Romanian, not the Banat dialect, which is not used in the cities). The life of gypsies in Walachia and Moldavia is well documented, but is not sure that those gypsies are boyash. Even today, Romania is the country with the biggest gypsy population in the world, and in the entire Romania, including the provinces of Walachia and Moldavia, there are many gypsies. Romanian-speaking gypsies in Romania are not considered boyash, and is difficult to know when they adopted the Romanian language (some of them recently). I understood that "boyash" are Romanian-speaking gypsies outside Romania (Hungary, Croatia and Serbia). Only in Wikipedia I saw that "rudari" and "lingurari" are synonimes for "boyash". In Romania some gypsy tribes are called "rudari" or "lingurari", but not "băieşi". Is possible that those "boyash" are gypsies that aquired Romanian language in Banat, following their contact with Romanians, but not as slaves. Also, is possible that "boyash" are not gypsies, just nomadic Romanians who emigrated from Banat. If there are some Romani (gypsy language) words in the boyash dialect that are not found in other Romanian dialects, that can be considered as a proof that boyash are indeed of gypsy origin. Who can give such examples? Marius, 14 July 2006
[edit] Marius's issues
You should read carefull what Marius asked for. --Noisettes 16:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- I saw that the language example that allowed me to say that boyash dialect is closer with Banat dialect dissapeared.--MariusM 11:07, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
