Talk:Boxing Day

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[edit] Earlier comments

Boxing Day is the first weekday after Christmas Day. This is substantiated in numerous documents, and in perfectly clear language in both the Oxford English Dictionary and also the Merriam Webster Dictionary (the most recent versions of each, and naturally in preceeding versions.) So, referring to several of the comments below, then Boxing Day is not on a fixed date. Decades of tradition and historical data cannot simply be ignored because popular opinion feels like a change.

"In Ireland the 26th is known as St Stephen's Day". This is misleading: As stated correctly in the article Saint Stephen, his feast is on the 26th in the West in general, even in some Lutheran churches.
S.

Certainly St Stephen's day is a fixed date of December 26th. I thought Boxing Day was always the 26th. The origins of the name have a number of Urban legend associated but the tradition of giving to servants is an accepted fact. Because in older days there were no holidays particularly for servants I suggest that Boxing Day is actually a fixed date. Rjstott

Boxing Day itself is on a fixed day, but -- if the 26th is on a weekend -- the public holiday for it occurs on the first working day following the 26th. A bit of a fine distinction, but that's how it works here in Canada, anyway. -- Paul Drye
You are right for the UK also, most people celebrate Boxing Day on December 26 if it falls on a Sunday. Some Christians don't due to the clash with their Sabbath. However, Boxing Day is a secular celebration (as is evidenced by the people who celebrate it), not a Christian one, so I think the general wisdom should win out in terms of dating, I have made a note on the beliefs of Christians in the article.Rje 15:03, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Unless, of course, Christmas and Boxing Day both fall on weekend days - in which case the Boxing Day Holiday is the 2nd day after the weekend (Christmas Day Holiday being the first). Eg. This year's Christmas:
  • Sat Dec 25 (weekend day)
  • Sun Dec 26 (weekend day)
  • Mon Dec 27 (holiday)
  • Tue Dec 28 (holiday)
  • Wed Dec 29
  • Thu Dec 30
  • Fri Dec 31
  • Sat Jan 1 (weekend day)
  • Sun Jan 2 (weekend day)
  • Mon Jan 3 (holiday)
-- Chuq 21:18, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

That's how it is in the UK too. I'll edit the article. -- Derek Ross

I heard it was because, in Victorian times, one spent Christmas with one's family, then went out on Boxing Day to visit one's friends and give them presents. I suppose this explanation somewhat fits with the giving servant's presents one. -- SJK

Ah, User:Jess Cully had it right. In my Commonwealth country (Bermuda), Boxing Day itself is always on the 26th - the day off work associated with it may move to the day following (just as if November 11th - or any other holiday on a fixed calendar day - is on a Sunday, people get the following Monday off), but Boxing Day stays on the day after Christmas. The same seems to be true in the rest (Canada above, and the UK, from Cully's comments). Noel (talk) 12:14, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

In English common-law Boxing Day always occurs on a weekday - either the 26th or the 27th - c.f. Bank Holidays Act 1871. This is why when Christmas Day falls on a Saturday the Monday is legally 'Boxing Day' and the Tuesday is legally 'Substitute Bank Holiday in lieu of Christmas Day'. All reference sources I can find [1 http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Boxing+Day] [2 http://www.merriamwebster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=boxing+day] state that Boxing Day is the first weekday after Christmas 'not that it is the 26th December. Also see Oxford Dictionary, and for the international angle how about 'Banks And Bank Holidays (Amendment) Bill' of New South Wales? Also 'Holidays Act 1983' of Commonwealth of Australia. As in the UK, if Boxing Day falls on a Saturday, a proclamation is used to make the following Monday a public holiday, but this is not necessary if the 26th is a Sunday as the Monday is actually Boxing Day itself. Calling 26th December 'Boxing Day' when it falls on a Sunday (as per BBC usage in recent times) has been deprecated as being improper and inaccurate.


Would it be fair to include both points of view? To explain that to most commonwealth citizens Boxing Day is the 26th December and would only be understood as such, but legally it is actually the second bank holiday associated with Christmas and as such it is legally defined as the first workday after Christmas day. 81.178.92.95 (talk) 19:51, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Football or Soccer

The article makes mention of Boxing Day as a day of sport, and states football and horseracing as the most common. I'm just wondering if football in this context means American football or soccer, since this holiday is observed primarily in places where soccer is called football. I just thought that needs some clarification. :) Cookiecaper 19:42, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yeah I reckon it means Soccer.
Another thing... The article never explains where the name 'boxing' comes from. Does that relate to the sport of boxing, or what? -- Nojer2 10:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I just added the various origins and explanations Chewxy 04:37, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
It means Soccer, as that's the sport which we know as football in the UK. - JVG 00:07, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Boxing on Boxing Day

I don't know if the name Boxing Day has to to with the sport boxing, but when Jack Johnson, USA won the World Heavyweight Championship in Professional Boxing, he won against Tommy Burns, Canada in Sydney, Australia on December 26 1908, on a Boxing Day!

Actually boxing the sport, has nothing to do with boxing day the day after Christmas, the rich would box up gifts for the poor and then hand them out. So the word box refers to the cardboard box (wood at the time) and not the physical activity. (♠Taifarious1♠) 10:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 26 December vs First Weekday

The controversy over whether 26 December is still Boxing Day if it falls on a weekend rages on. No sooner do I put up the UK populist view that Boxing Day is always the 26th, than some advocate of the theory that Boxing Day is the first weekday after Xmas reverts it. I would suggest that if the overwhelming majority of the general public celebrate Boxing Day on 26 December every year, then that has acquired common law status. I have some sympathy with calling Monday 27th December Boxing Day, as that is actually what happened between 1954 and 1993 (though it doesn't happen any more). However, hardly anyone has ever called Monday 28th December Boxing Day. As that position is never, ever likely to win any substantial support base, I suggest that it is futile for its tiny community of supporters to kick against the pricks. Jess Cully 18:11, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

In Australia, the first weekday after Xmas is the Boxing Day holiday (if the 26th falls on a weekend). I'd be inclined to remove the "fact" that Boxing Day itself is the first weekday after Xmas, as almost all sources these days refer to the 26th. If popular usage by reputable sources changes, encyclopaedias are supposed to reflect the change, not stick their fingers in their ears and continue to claim they are right. StuartH 04:33, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
It's been reworded (still needs some rewording). The few significant news sources that I can think of off the top of my head (SMH, ABC and BBC) all refer to Sunday, 26th December 2004 as "Boxing Day", and links have been provided. If the term "Boxing Day Holiday" is widely used, maybe that should be added too. StuartH 05:15, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
Stuart, I think we can safely assume that The Oxford English Dictionary and Encyclopedia Brittanica are much more respected standard-bearers of information than "ABC", and previously mentioned (by someone) the TV Times. As much as you may wish, you can't just pick and choose the bits that you want to believe in. The date of Boxing Day is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. It's the first weekday after Christmas. JaneDunnie
The point I am trying to make is that every major respected news source defines Boxing Day as the 26th of December, and if you live in a country which celebrates Boxing Day you would be aware that the popular usage overwhelmingly dominates the dictionary definitions. In popular usage, there is a clear distinction between Boxing Day and the Boxing Day holiday - I've never heard anyone say that Christmas falls on the 27th if the 25th is a Saturday. Dictionaries are supposed to reflect the usage of words, not dictate them. StuartH 00:15, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
  • In Canada, Boxing Day is the 26th. Period. Last year, it fell on a Sunday, but all the calendars still showed it as the 26th. Even if the statutory public holiday falls on the 27th or 28th, people still refer to the day after Christmas being Boxing Day. Despite what JaneDunnie states above, Encyclopedia Britannica defines it as the 26th, and further states: "When December 26 comes on a Saturday or Sunday, the following Monday is designated as the official public holiday." That does not make Boxing Day the first weekday after Christmas -- it's simply a recognition that the statutory holiday may fall on another day than the 26th. As StuartH has brilliantly noted, there is a huge difference between Boxing Day and the statutory holiday -- just as no one says Christmas falls on the 27th (although the statutory holiday might), Boxing Day does not fall on the 27th or 28th (although the statutory holiday might). Skeezix1000 14:40, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Is there a way that we can achieve consensus on this point, with the verdict either way, so that the article is no longer subject to edit wars back and forth? Skeezix1000 14:40, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Is it not fair to say that Boxing Day occurs on the 26th December, but the Boxing Day bank holiday occurs on the first weekday after Christmas Day? Interestingly this year we have Christmas Day on Sunday 25th and Boxing Day on Monday 26th, but Christmas Day bank holiday afterwards on Tuesday 27th. David 20:20, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I think we need to refer to the origins of the holiday to decide. The article mentions the first weekday being a holiday for servants as being one of the most probable origins. If this is true, then it seems resonable that Boxing Day is not fixed, and that it should be the first weekday after Christmas. There again, if its origins lie elsewhere, perhaps there's an arguement for Boxing Day being the 26th and the holiday distinct from it (but often on the same day). As there appears to be no religious reason for Boxing Day, simply a coincidence with St Stephen's day, the servants having to work Christmas and getting the next working day off seems a good bet to me. Therefore, the actual Boxing Day should be the first weekday after Christmas, and always coincide with its holiday. Any preceeding weekend is simply a weekend. That's my twopennyworth, anyway. In response to those above confused about football/soccer, it is the latter to which the article refers. Here in the UK a full fixture programme is played, along with matches at New Year as well, making the Christmas period one of the busiest for soccer.

However, since we are not sure of the origins, we can't be sure what it's traditional date has been so we have to make this clear. In any case, I think we also need to make it abundantly clear that boxing day IS the 26th December now and has been for several decades at least. I have tried my best to do this 16:01, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm Australian, the idea that Boxing Day was anything else than the 26th is one I hadn't previously been aware of. --Paul 14:06, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Surely the article should record changes in use rather than pick sides in this squabble? There is no doubt that the first weekday after Dec 25th was actually called Boxing Day, at least in England in the past. I can remember seeing it described as such in the Radio Times when I was a child. Why not simply say something to the effect of "At least into the 1960s Boxing Day in England often referred to the first working day after Christmas Day rather than December 26th, but this usage (while still defended by some) is now uncommon." That at least would be a factual statement and could be genuinely useful to someone who comes across a reference to December 27th as Boxing Day who would find the wikipedia article no help in explaining the issue.

[edit] Yes, but what is it all about?

This article says next to nothing about how the day is typically celebrated (or if it even is) and what generally is associated with the day. I see a lot about the origins and why it's called Boxing Day, but I'd really like to know how Boxing Day in the 21st century is handled. Thanks in advance! :) Girolamo Savonarola 03:04, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

It's simply that in Britain and a few other countries, Christmas is a 2-day holiday event (though it's fast becoming at least a week). After the feasting of Christmas Day most people eat cold cuts and visit family. Few people cook. Mainly they stay in and watch football on the telly nursing a hangover. It's also the day when many families hold some sort of family party in the evening.

My British friend told me boxing day was the day when you make sure you kept the box from the gifts you didn't much like, so you can return them. I guess he was pulling my leg, eh?

[edit] Tsunami

I have removed the Tsunami from 'events that occur on Boxing day' as IMHO that title implies an event that commonly occurs on boxing day, NOT a historic event/disaster that occured on boxing day... Nil Einne 15:59, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree - this is a lame ass wikipedia article since it doesn't really say what boxing day is except that it's a holiday. i think i'm gonna make some edits here...

[edit] Redundancy removed

RANT:It appears that someone or more then one person has added origin stories, either to the introduction or the main article without bothering to read the article and therefore failed to realise that origin stories were already included in the main article or the introduction and therefore we were left with 2 sets of origin stories.

Anyway, since the origin stories in the main article appeared more complete, I have completely removed the origin stories from the introduction and moved anything I felt necessary to the main article. The lines I removed were as below:

There is much dispute over the true origins of Boxing Day, but one common story of the holiday's origins is that servants and tradesmen received Christmas gifts from their employers on the first weekday after Christmas, the day after the family celebrations. These were generally called their "Christmas boxes." Another story is that this is the day that priests broke open the collection boxes and distributed the money to the poor. Another story is that Boxing Day is when all the Christmas decorations go back in their boxes to await next year's festivities.

Perhaps there is some merit to mentioning the origin story controversy in the introduction but I couldn't be bothered doing it. Rant again, we really wouldn't keep having these kinds of problems if people would actually briefly go through an article before being trigger happy and dumping stuff all over the place, it's not as if this is even a long article! Nil Einne 16:18, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Marxist historians?

I question this article's impartiality with respect to "Marxist historians." Here is the offending paragraph, with emphasis added:

Marxist historians find evidence for "perpetuation of class difference" theory in what superficially seems to be Boxing Day's one direction of giving--i.e., from the rich lords to the poor croppers. They are right in observing that equality and respect are only found if there is a proper exchange of gifts. Looking only at quantifiable material value, they are right in finding inequality between the lords and peasants and justified in seeing reactionary and class-repressive origins for Boxing Day.

Does calling Marxist historians "right" in their interpretations make this article partial to that view? I don't see the conclusions as "right" at all. "Proper exchange of gifts"? What about exchanging a year's service for food, shelter, wages, and a year-end bonus? Maybe the flaw is in "looking only at quantifiable material value"; why confine your comparison so narrowly?

[edit] Canadian Boxing Day Sales

Correct me if I'm wrong but, atleast in Nova Scotia we can't have our store open on Boxing day because its a Holiday. So really our Boxing Day sales are on the 27th.


In the UK most stores now open on the 26th but some department stores (like John Lewis) do not start there sales until the 27th like traditionally Someguyonearth

IN New Zealand, all stores are open on Boxing Day, and it is one of the most profitible days of the year dur to the massive savings people make when businesses offer large boxing day discounts its kind of a tradition to have boxing day sales in NZ, but in other countries im not too sure about. (♠Taifarious1♠) 10:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why not in the US?

It would be nice to have some info as to why the day is not known or celebrated in the US. Since most of the examples of origin pre-date the US, it seems that the holiday would have carried over. The reference to the NA observence of Boxing Day including retail discounts in the US is a recent occurence, I beleive, and doesn't have anything to do with Boxing Day so much as it just being the day after Christmas.

If I had to speculate, I would say because some of the activities once associated with Boxing Day--such as hunting foxes and giving food to servants--did not translate into life in the New World. You're right about the retail slashing being more of a coincidence than a genuine Boxing Day celebration, but in Canada, Boxing Day is observed as Boxing Day, and so all the price-cutting festivities become properly known as "Boxing Day sales". That's really the only significance the day has anywhere in the United States or Canada; the only difference is Canadians call it "Boxing Day" and Americans call it "the day after Christmas".

[edit] Who?

If the "Great Jason Lawson Capitan" doesn't have his(?) own entry, can inclusion here really be justified?

[edit] Germany countries?

The line "In many Germany countries it is also a holiday" doesn't make sense to me. Should it perhaps read "German-speaking countries" or "Germanic countries"?

I think this was just part of some vandalism that i've now tried to roll-back.... Petesmiles 07:19, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, the languages were screwed up and for instance, made it look like the Swedish (or Norwegian) name was "in the Netherlands" and then proceeded to have "Tweede Kerstdag" as Norway... so I changed stuff around and I recognise most of these languages so I think I have the names right, except the Sweden/Norway one. Any Swedes or Norwegians want to check this? I know the German, Dutch, Finnish ones are with the right countries and the Iceland one looks lke Icelandic to me, so... also removed the constant references to the words meaning "Second (day of) Christmas" because that's already stated in the beginning of the paragraph. 82.93.133.130 19:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scotland etc.

Boxing Day is NOT a public holiday Scotland - I;m not sure about otehr countries, but clearly the global reference to British Commonwealth is wrong.

Johnbibby 06:36, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to fix this since the entire article is built around the entire commenwealth observing Boxing Day. I'll work on it though. I'll also try to do some research to the true case. --Flying Canuck 20:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Could it be that Scotland still observes it it is just not an offical government recognised holiday? I think that countries should be included even if the government does not make a statutory holiday. (Such as Chinese New Year in Canada, still recognised but not a stat holiday) --Flying Canuck 20:55, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
It is a bank holiday in Scotland though, and public or local holidays in Scotland are determined by local authorities.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/01/bankholidays Exatco 11:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Current Event

Sorry, I don't see how this is a current event. Just because it is Boxing Day it does not mean the article will change unless anything major and out of the ordinary happens. I thought current event tags were for articles about an actual event. (Such as terriost attacks, trials, elections) while they were occuring. If no one objects I will remove the tag later today. --Flying Canuck 17:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

How 'bout that, you are right :)

[edit] Proclamation Day

I just added in the Australian section that 26 December is celebrated as Proclamation Day in the Australian state of South Australia.

144.138.219.141 05:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)An Anonymous Aussie (AAA). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.138.219.141 (talk) 04:59, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Boxing Day in The British Army

In the 'Trivia' section of the main article, it mentions an episode of M*A*S*H* where the day was marked by the officers serving the enlisted men in the mess tent. This is, I believe, a still-observed tradition in the British Army as well. (In fact I think it happened in the programme after the characters in the 4077th bumped into a British soldier, who gave them the idea.)

Given that the staffing in so many messes has now been civilianised, the swap may no longer happen on major bases, but I seem to remember reading a (relatively recent) article which stated it happened on operational deployments, because these camps still use 'service' cooks.

Can anyone confirm whether the officers & soldiers role-reversal is still current for the British?

Aaron88.109.193.9 20:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Church Moved the Feast of St Stephen to August 3

Small Text The modern church moved the feast of St Stepehen to August 3. Therefore, it is not technically correct to refer to December 26 as the feast of St Stephen anymore.

Has this change actually been recognized other than in church calendars? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.228.212.214 (talk) 20:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

3 August is the date of the Invention of St. Stephen, that is, a commemoration of the "discovery" of his tomb in 415. The Western liturgical tradition (Roman, Anglican, Lutheran) still observes 26 December as his "day"; the Eastern tradition, the day after.Janko (talk)Janko

[edit] European Countries

In the section European Countries, a reference is made to Catalonia which is only a region of Spain (as there are many others such as Galicia, Valencia, Basque Country, Asturias, etc...). Therefore, it doesn't fit into the European Countries section. On top of that, if a reference to Catalonia is made, examples of other spanish regions should be given as well (for example in Galicia the day is known as San Estevo). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.149.205.254 (talk) 08:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Date of Boxing Day

Surely Boxing Day is 26 December pure and simple, no matter what day of the week it falls on? It certainly is in popular usage. Boxing Day is simply the traditional name for the day after Christmas in many English-speaking countries. It should be separated from the bank holiday, which is called the Boxing Day bank holiday because it usually coincides with Boxing Day. Or are you saying that when 1st January falls on a Saturday, the 3rd January is New Year's Day, simply because that is when the New Year bank holiday would be held? This is a nonsense, surely?--Triglyph2 11:23, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not simple as all - frankly the whole thing is messy. I remember in 1993 even the Radio Times and TV Times (and presumably therefore the BBC and ITV) were in disagreement, with one listing the 26th as "Boxing Day" and the other the 27th. At the time I had an argument with my grandmother over just which day was the Bank Holiday as the convention I was used to clashed with the one she was. (1993 saw the first Sunday December 26th since 1982 - it may not be a coincidence that after a decade of the issue never coming up people just assumed "Boxing Day is the 26th". A lot of things have taken root in popular perception has "having always been that way" over much shorter periods of time.)
It's true most festivals with bank holidays are fixed even if the bank holiday itself moves, but not all are - May Day can refer to either May 1 or to the bank holiday on the first Monday in May.
However current popular usage is certainly for December 26th. Timrollpickering 14:30, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
From 1954 to 1982 the Radio Times and TV Times called Sunday 26 December Christmas Sunday and Monday 27 December Boxing Day. In 1993, as the second poster above mentions, only one of them was still maintaining this, and by 1999 the idea of Boxing Day always being the 26th even on a Sunday had triumphed, among everyone I know as well as in both Radio Times and TV Times. Jess Cully (talk) 18:21, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cardboard or Wooden?

According to Wikipaedia cardboard boxes were invented in 1817. I would have thought that for some time these were expensive novelties. A lord with 1500 estate workers would be most unlikely to contemplate giving his staff their christmas bonus in a cardboard box. So wooden boxes - even more unlikely. With either of these boxes some surely would have survived and we'd be finding them in antique shops but no.. The most likely origin is the Pagan ceremony with the wren. This wasn't limited to England but took place throughout Europe and of course was not Christian but was not secular either. Hamishmillermaccoll 02:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Why all the non-boxing-day stuff?

If Germany, Ireland, other European countries, etc. don't actually have Boxing Day, why are we talking about what they do on Dec 26 in this article? Surely all that sort of information should be in the December 26 or the St. Stephen's Day articles? Similarly for the information under "International". j-beda 05:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In keeping with Wiki style and rules...

I've removed this entry under the Canada explanation:

In addition to the retail aspect of the holiday, Boxing Day also serves, in English-speaking parts of the country, as a second day for families to gather for dinner and to exchange gifts. Boxing Day dinner is, in many ways, just as much a part of many families traditions as Christmas dinner itself.

I took this out, primarily, because it's a matter of the author's opinion of what happens on Boxing Day in Canada, and is not appropriate to have entered in this entry. Toropop (talk) 21:10, 20 December 2007 (UTC)