Talk:Boxer (dog)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Dogs Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dogs, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on Canines on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit comments - comment history - watch comments · refresh this page) A good B-class qualification. Still needs more references, and some key sections need expanding or are missing such as size/proportions/builds (could be one section under size or appearance), health, and care/training/activity (rather than just "uses"). The temperament section is off to a good start, but seems to rely primarily on the quote from the standard and needs a bit more fleshing out and referencing. Boxers are a fairly popular breed, so finding high quality references for these areas should be relatively easy, just time consuming. :) Collectonian 19:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

	Germany Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (See comments)
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Boxer (dog) article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability
Archives: 1, 2

Archives

1, 2

Contents 1 Lead and Spelling 2 Capitalization 3 Proportion picture... 4 History and Health 5 Natural bobtail 6 Links to clubs

[edit] Lead and Spelling

There has been some back-and-forth 'udoing' on this article, primarily regarding the lead and the spelling (American vs. British). Per the Wikipedia guidelines, the lead should include brief information on such things as coat color, physical characteristics, and breed history. Per WP:Lead:

The lead should be capable of standing alone as a concise overview of the article, establishing context, summarizing the most important points, explaining why the subject is interesting or notable, and briefly describing its notable controversies, if there are any. The emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic according to reliable, published sources. The lead should not "tease" the reader by hinting at but not explaining important facts that will appear later in the article. It should contain up to four paragraphs, should be carefully sourced as appropriate, and should be written in a clear, accessible style so as to invite a reading of the full article.

The history of this page also shows a desire to 'flesh out' the lead.

Spelling should remain as American, per the Wiki Style Manual, specifically this section of WP:ENGVAR:

Retaining the existing variety
If an article has evolved using predominantly one variety, the whole article should conform to that variety, unless there are reasons for changing it on the basis of strong national ties to the topic. In the early stages of writing an article, the variety chosen by the first major contributor to the article should be used, unless there is reason to change it on the basis of strong national ties to the topic. Where an article that is not a stub shows no signs of which variety it is written in, the first person to make an edit that disambiguates the variety is equivalent to the first major contributor.

The history of this page shows a long trend of Americanized spelling, save the quote from a British book. (As an aside, even if one were to change the spelling from American to English, it should not be done within the American quotations!)

If you feel the Wiki Manual would apply different rules to the lead and spelling, please present your opinion here so that an understanding may be reached.

[edit] Capitalization

Sometimes this can be a heated topic, so I thought I'd mention it here before making any sweeping changes. In most of the article, the breed name is capitalized. In some spots, and in some of the image captions, it is not capitalized. I have always felt that, since it is a proper name, it should be capitalized; but I know there are those who only capitalize the portion of dog names that refer to people or places - Doberman pinscher, Labrador retriever, etc.

The Wiki dog breeds page capitalizes all parts of a breed name, so I would expect this article should follow that convention - but given recent events, I no longer feel it is safe to act on that expectation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.107.12.18 (talk) 16:45, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Of course it's safe!!! And you stand correct... The problem with the pictures was that it was controversial, but, in the end, was for the good, don't you think? :-) Go on, capitalize it (in fact, if you don't do it yourself, I'll do it myself :-) ) Wikipedia encourages us to be bold, to edit without pity, but, then, when controversy arises we should Talk (that's why there is a talk page for each article). We just don't need edit warring, which is the single most detrimental behavior in wikipedia. Loudenvier 17:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but the last time I was bold about editing without pity I was accused of vandalism and being a sockpuppet. Far better to discuss first, at least for a time, in my eyes. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.107.12.18 (talk) 17:44, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you register? Anonymous contributions are encouraged, but without an account you are not able to "watch" pages, and lack many tools to work as a community. And you also can get a nice nick name just like mine :-) :-) :-) Loudenvier 18:00, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I am registered, Wiki just never cookies me and I quite often forget to re-log in every time. :) I remembered today, though! ;) Newcastle 18:29, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Most of the sources I've seen on dog breeds capitalize Boxer as well, so I think its safe to make it a standard that the name be capitalized in the article. Collectonian 05:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proportion picture...

I have added a self-made (based on a wikimedia drawing) pictures with the proportions for the Boxer... I'm planning in extending the Appearance section, so I think it will not be a extraneous picture at all. Loudenvier 18:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, good - I was just looking at that Appearance section and thinking it needs quite a bit added, but I'm tied up with work today and a show the next three so wasn't ready to tackle it just yet. Glad you are! :) Newcastle 18:32, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Nice picture! That is an excellent image to have there! Collectonian 19:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History and Health

I've added some more referenced information to the history section from an excellent dog encyclopedia I have. It does repeat some information from the geneology section, though, so if anyone feels it needs cleaning up or should be worked into there, feel free to do so. Let me know if you need to clarify what the source says if editing sentences. :)

I've noticed the health section doesn't seem to mention progressive axonopathy a hereditary disease of the central nervous system that was rampant in Boxers. While breeders have diligently worked to breed it out, shouldn't it be mentioned as its still recommended the pedigrees of potential pairs be checked to make sure neither is a carrier before mating? Also, anyone else thing that some of the information on the specific health problems of white boxers should be moved to in the health section? Collectonian 05:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes and then yes. Loudenvier 15:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I have removed some of the duplicate info from the history section that was already, and more detailed in the genealogy section (which is even better now that you found the full name of some of the early Boxers). I've left the information about Meta-von-der-Passage since I feel this history section, while avoiding genealogy info, should not miss the chance to make a note about this historically important bitch (this sounds funny: ...important bitch :-). I had to reorganize the references you introduced and even reused it on another citation. Thanks for the new info! Loudenvier 16:13, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

PA was a small concern in the UK in the late 1970s and early 1980s - only about 60 cases were identified so I don't think it can be considered to ever have been rampant in the breed. Per a 2006 update from one of the Boxer breeders (who is also a mammalian geneticist) involved with the control scheme in the UK at the time, no new cases were identified after 1982. I don't know of any Boxer Clubs which suggest screening for PA at this point in time - the UK Boxer Breed Council states PA is no longer considered a problem in the breed.

A mention that some white Boxers may be deaf would probably go well in the health section - there are no other specific health problems of white Boxers. :) I think the discussion of the myth about health problems in white Boxers better in the section on color, though - or perhaps (if there isn't one already, I can't recall) a sub-section there about whites. Newcastle 01:48, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Natural bobtail

Here. Worth a mention? --220.255.7.235 (talk) 11:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Added this to the section discussing cropping and docking:

"There is a line of naturally short-tailed (bobtail) Boxers that was developed in the United Kingdom in anticipation of a tail docking ban there; after several generations of controlled breeding, these dogs were accepted in the Kennel Club (UK) registry in 1998, and today representatives of the bobtail line can be found in many countries around the world. " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.107.12.18 (talk) 18:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Links to clubs

I personally feel that the links to clubs currently extant in the External Links section violates the guideline that Wikipedia is not a list of external links; as can currently be seen, there are already 16 such links. Veinor ^{(talk to me)} 15:49, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I understand your concern but given the length of the article, and the fact that the external links have been restricted to only national parent clubs for the breed, I don't feel the list is excessive. Each national parent club offers different information and viewpoints on various issues in the breed, and so fall within the Wikipedia External Links guidelines. Newcastle (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.107.12.18 (talk) 18:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

show picture of adult white boxer with tail if possible, the reason is because our neighbor has pits and she also has a white boxer she swears is full blood pit, pooor thing, this dog is boxer.. thank you diana —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.203.212 (talk) 15:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)