Talk:Boston accent

Karmafist 22:09, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Update

Ok, i've improved it a bit, now you can just put in {{chowdah}} to get the template, which you can see at {{chowdah}}

[edit] Milkshake and Frappe

Note: I've put this here since I had this exchange on an anon IP's talk page, and it could be of interest here, since the changes were to this article. BCorr|Брайен

Why are you deleting the references to a milkshake without ice cream? Are you thinking about McDonald's milkshakes or something? BCorr|Брайен 22:25, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I grew up in Boston, and have never heard of or seen anything without ice cream called a milkshake. Nor has anyone else from the area that I asked. The information was inaccurate, so I removed it.

I've lived in Boston since 1987, this was one of the first things I learned here -- after being teased mercilessly for saying "pop" for a soft drink -- and it's not terribly common anymore, but it is real, and not just at one or two places. It's more common south of Boston (Quincy, Brockton, etc.) as it's the standard in Rhose Island, but can be found up in New Hampshire too. A more complete explanation is in the milkshake article here, but there are plenty of non-Wikipedia references to it:

• Answers.com
• SurveyCentral message board with people having the same argument
• Sherwood Hotels brochure about their Boston facilities (pdf format)

Thanks, BCorr|Брайен 15:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Without cited sources to back it up, no claim as to the meanings of "frappe" and "milkshake" in Boston is verifiable, and so should not be included in Wikipedia in the first place. --Angr (t·c) 15:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Found one: http://www.bartleby.com/61/66/M0296600.html --Angr (t·c) 15:56, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

is there actually an arguement over what a milkshake is, it is milk mixed with vanilla sryup, no ice cream. I didnt think there was anything to dabate or argue over. Anyone from the regions knows this.--Kev62nesl 05:09, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

No question. I'm just a teenager, so my dialect isn't probably traditional, but a milkshake is not a common drink. A frappe with ice cream is. I don't live near Boston though. I live near the cape. This is a huge distinction to make when addressing this dialect. Another biggie is "grinder".

In my mind, a milkshake does not guarantee ice cream. It should be clearly a beverage (thin straw) as opposed to a frappe (thick straw or spoon). Ladlergo 05:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I grew up on the South Shore, and my family goes back a few generations here. Milkshake, ice cream soda, and frappe are three things that mean different things here than elsewhere, but all I know is that the one I want is a frappe. It's thick and ice-creamy and delicious, where a milkshake is more watered-down (due to the milk), and an ice cream soda is wicked watered-down (due to the soda water). Elsewhere in the country (and even here in Boston sometimes) a milkshake is more like the aforementioned McDonald's milkshake, meaning it's more like a frappe.

"I grew up in Boston, and have never heard of or seen anything without ice cream called a milkshake. Nor has anyone else from the area that I asked. The information was inaccurate, so I removed it." <- You are quite wrong. Before national chains moved into the area a milkshake did not have ice cream but a frappe did.

Well, I'm from Rhode Island, and we have clear differences between a frappe, a cabinet, a milkshake, and ice cream soda. See the milkshake article. -Daniel Blanchette 00:43, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] T for two

As a native of Massachusetts who has lived in both the Western and Eastern parts of the state (and it really does make a difference), I've noticed that us Massholes tend to drop the letter "t" if it occurs in the middle of a word along with other consonants or at the end of a word. Instead, we use a glottal stop ('). In the case of double "t's", the "t" sound is closer to a "d". Examples: -Moun'ain (for "mountain") -Restraun' (for "restaurant") (However, "Worcester" is pronounced "Woosta.") -Boa' (for "boat") -Bai' (for "bait") -Beddah (for "better") -Mea' cuddah (for "meat cutter")

Frankly, I don't know enough about phonetics and the IPA to write about this. Nor have I done any real research into the topic, aside from observing my own pronunciation and that of those around me. However, if anyone else has noted this habit of pronunciation and knows more about it then I do, I would appreciate the addition of the information to this article. Grammar nazi 05:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

This is true of American English in general, and some other dialects of English as well. It's not specific to Massachusetts by a long shot. --Angr (t·c) 05:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

-I think this is stronger near Connecticut. I hear this a lot, even in refined speech, in Connecticut, which is as close to newscaster as you can find usually.

On a somewhat related note, what about the phenomenon that might be called "over-aspirated plosives"? In some of the more extreme local accents around Boston, I hear a tendency to add an extra "breathiness" to both voiced and unvoiced plosive consonants in initial and occasionally final position. A classic example for me is "burger" sounding almost like "bvurguh". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.81.33.251 (talk) 00:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Truly "non-rhotic?"

I know nothing of linguistics and phonology... I may be deceiving myself but after some years of living in the Boston area I am convinced that the "r" is not truly missing in the Boston accent, it is just different. (And, yes, subtle). A good example is the pronunciation of the town name "Arlington." I am not sure exactly what I am hearing, but something is going on. There is some kind of consonant-like-thing happening before the L. It is not pronounced "Ollington." Similarly, on close listening, I am convinced that "Harvard," while certainly not pronounced the way I would pronounce it, is not pronounced "Hahvahd." There are seven phonemes pronounced, not five.

The best way I can describe it is that when the syllable "ar" is pronounced, there is no real consonant, but the vowel is pronounced as a diphthong. The problem for me is that I can simultaneously perceive that there are two different sounds, and yet both of these sounds to me are perceived as the same "ah" phoneme.

I'll bet that native Boston-accent speakers perceive themselves to be enunciating an "r" and I'll bet they hear an "r." This is certainly true of the few that I've asked.

Lady Mondegreene department: a friend of mine mentioned misperceiving something said by a native Boston-accent speaker. The speaker was a Dr. Armington, who I met on a couple of occasions, and he pronounced his own name much the same way as the Ar- in the name of the town of Arlington. My friend said that Dr. Armington had, on a couple of occasions, used the phrase "a nominal egg" to mean "the price of something expensive." He finally asked about the meaning of this quaint New England expression, since an egg didn't seem like a good exemplar of luxury. It turned out that Armington had been saying that something cost "an arm and a leg." Dpbsmith (talk) 13:20, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Could be a glotal stop, but I'm from Kansas, so I don't hear many people speaking with a Boston accent around here. Don't know man.Cameron Nedland 03:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] geographic area

I found this page very interesting! I might also add that this accent can also be found in (or is very similar to) much of Rhode Island, and eastern Connecticut (in addition to the already mentioned eastern Massachussetts, New Hampshire, and Maine). Since I'm not a linguist, I dare not attempt to change the page on my own. But basically anyone from east of the Connecticut River shares some traits of the Boston accent. It's just food for thought. Any suggestions? --VingenzoTM 15:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Not all of RI. --64.223.54.147 (talk) 14:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nobody talks like the Kennedys

I take issue with the note at the end of the first paragraph stating that the best-known user of the Boston accent was JFK. NOBODY in Boston has that accent except his brother Teddy. Nobody. Come to Boston and you'll never hear this peculiar accent.

I'd also like to note that, although to the outside world all the accents from Maine to Connecticut form the larger Boston-y accent, there is a gigantic difference in accent in different areas. For example, I grew up on the South Shore, where most people speak very low in their vocal range (think words like "cahnt" for can't) and with more of a Brooklyn-like punchiness than on the North Shore, where the voice is much breathier and words are spoken much more quickly (Think PEE-biddy for Peabody). Despite the Big Dig's connecting us all together like never before, these differences seem to persist.

Hailing from North-Eastern Connecticut and having very heavy experience in Mass, Rhode Island, and Southern CT, I can say for a fact that Connecticut is for the most part "Standard American" in its accent, with a few MA and RI influenced folks here and there. Maine and Vermont, however, have quite a large "accented" population. That said, you're completely right, no one has an accent like the Kennedys. --Shaikoten 16:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Joe Quimby (the mayor of Springfield, from The Simpsons) has the distinctive "Kennedy accent."

Joe Quimby you've got to be kidding--Kev62nesl 06:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, with Quimby. The Simpsons writers were not from New England. They, like Trey Parker and Matt Stone on South Park during Cartoon Wars, confuse the dialect with New York. Kennedy's dialect is bizzare. And its his whole family. Its more reminiscent of the accents in rural areas, where words like there and four are two syllables, than Boston sub-urbs.

Quimby is modeled after the Kennedys Joe Quimby --Kev62nesl 08:31, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm from the Metro West area and few of the neighbors have anything like a Boston accent. Maybe the range of the accent should be defined a bit more clearly. Ladlergo 05:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

It's true that no one speaks like the Kennedys. I'm from Cambridge (a city across the charles river from Boston, for those of you who don't know) and I know this to be a fact. It is just a bureaucratic thing they have to make them seem closer to the people. This may become controversial, but I doubt it's real. J-stan 19:55, 2 August, 2006.

[edit] Time factor in debate over whether anyone talks like the Kennedys

I moved as an early teen to the Boston are(r) in the early 1970s. It was like moving to a different country. There were all these new words, like wicked, pissah. Many people talked like the Kennedys. That was nahmal. (The accents of Matt Damon and Ben Affleck in Good Will Hunting give you a sense of this. Softening of Boston accent With time, the Boston accent has softened. This has happened with the influence of television. Television provides a national standard. Children spend many hours listening to it. Aside from their parents, television is an important factor in shaping children's speech. Cumulatively, more generations have become influenced by standard American speech, and less influenced by Boston speech. Furthermore, local television stations have influenced this by employing newscasters with Standard American accents, rather than with Bostonian speech. Actually, Senators John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy had stronger accents in the 1970s. When one hears recordings of their speeches from that period their accents are more pronounced.

For many people there was the notion that having the Boston accent was low class. These speakers have shed or never adopted the accent. Additionally, the colleges of Boston and Cambridge have attracted migrants from other pahts of the U.S. Many of these migrants have stayed and have influenced the mannah of speech in the Boston area(r).

So, we now have the softened Boston accent. It is too bad that aside from the Kennedys we have few easily accessible recohdings of standid Bahston speech in the 1960s. Dogru144 14:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'm the person who wrote the original comment, and I have to argue with this. My family has lived in Boston since the Irish Potato Famine (mid-1800s), and despite the fact that my mother's family is from the same county as the Kennedy's, there's no similarity in the accent. I take issue with your statement that in the 1970's a lot of people talked like the Kennedys -- ask my parents, aunts (pronounced "ahhntz") and uncles, and they all had a big issue with how the entire country thought people here spoke like that. If you spend any time in downtown Boston (and plenty of other outlying areas) you'll here the same accent -- at the same strength -- that you heard from politicians and actors of earlier times -- think Mayor (of Boston) Kevin White in the 70's and the Tin Woodman in the Wizard of Oz in the 30's (!!). You'll hear variations between South Boston and Charlestown, Cape Cod and Cape Ann, but none of them sounds like Teddy, Robert, and JFK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.109.241 (talk) 02:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ben Affleck & Matt Damon

If those two have Boston accents, then Moxie is a delicious soda. -- Toscaesque 16:49, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

-You honestly don't know what they have. They're actors who have experianced many dialects and accents. In Good Will Hunting, Damon's accent was pretty convincing. If he spoke like that in person, I would not be able to tell if he was affecting it or not.

Many native New Englanders have learned to slip in and out of the accent at will. Early interviews with these two have shown that they have this accent. -- Malber (talk • contribs) 16:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

But Moxie is a delicious soda!--Mayor Beauregard 19:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slang section

This section says the word 'jimmies' means only chocolate sprinkles. I have heard and used the term 'rainbow jimmies,' for meither of them would anyone around here use the word 'sprinkles,' it sound so weird. Rmpfu89 14:14, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

-Hate to say this, but "jimmies" originally referred only to chocolate sprinkles: and the reference was to "jimmy," a offensive slang term for a dark-skinned man. A number of black candies had similar names - for instance, there used to be a candy called "n***** babies" (obfuscation was my own).

Screw you urban legend spreading bastard. Jimmies was not and is not racist, learn your history, --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmies

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.233.33.198 (talk) 13:16, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

Oh, and to the comment above.... Moxie is a delicious soda.

I'm familiar with the word "sprinkles" in reference to both kinds. However, both of my parents are from NY (Brooklyn and Niagara Falls), so maybe my vocabulary is a bit skewed. Ladlergo 05:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Some of this "Boston Slang" happens to be pretty popular out in NW Kansas, so I think some of it is GA slang. Just food for thought.Cameron Nedland 04:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

A note on slang- Growing up in Boston, I never heard the word "grinder" used to mean a "submarine sandwich." We used the word "sub", and I only heard "grinder" when I moved to Western Mass. Liz S. 7/23/07

[edit] Suggested move with redirect

I suggest that this article be moved to the more accurate title "Eastern New England accent" as other states throughout New England are mentioned. The accent is more widespread than just Boston (with minor variations which are discussed in the article). A redirect will insure that anyone searching for "Boston accent" will come here. -- Malber (talk • contribs) 16:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] British Heritage

It is interesting how you can actually hear the transition from British English to American English within the Boston accent - like in certain features throughout the East Coast. Think about how an Englishman says 'got' and how an average American says it. The former pronounces it almost like 'goat', while with the latter it is more like 'gat'. Both of these sounds are contained in the word when a Bostonian says it.

Also, Bostonians often pronounce the H in words like "herb" while the rest of the US does not.

[edit] Mayor Quimby or Moe Szyslak?

If anyone from "The Simpsons" series talks with genuine Boston accent, it is bartender Moe Szyslak. I wouldn't say that Quimby is necessarily a good example.

Moe Szyslak is a "bad imitation of Al Pacino", in Hank Azaria's words. That is exactly Al Pacino's accent, who grew up in the Bronx. 71.195.31.76 05:43, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bang a Uey

This article claims (without reference, shocking) that this phrase for "make a u-turn" is exclusive to New England. I can report, however, that it is used regularly in the Midwest, and certainly in Indianapolis, where I live.

[edit] Non-rhoticity elsewhere in New England

The recent edit says:

Traditional maps have marked most of the territory east of the Connecticut river as non-rhotic, but this is highly innacurate of contemporary speakers. The University of Pennsylvania's Telsur map shows non-rhoticity as only occuring with any significant frequency in Eastern Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Southeastern New Hampshire, Southeastern Connecticut, and Coastal Maine.

However, Penn's Telsur project only interviewed speakers from major cities. In other words, Eastern Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Southeastern New Hampshire, Southeastern Connecticut, and Coastal Maine are all the areas east of the Connecticut River for which Telsur has any data at all. Thus this is in no wise inconsistent with "most of the territory east of the Connecticut River" being non-rhotic—in fact, it supports it. AJD 21:57, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I can agree with the non-rhotic comment east of the Connecticut River. I'm from Rhode Island and I know that we are non-rhotic. Even then we have a subset of the Boston slang - i.e. coffee milk, johnnycake, quahog chowder, CF, Borington, and other things like that. However, a clearer disctinction needs to be made between the Rhode Island and Boston accents. -Daniel Blanchette 00:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] boston brahmin

i added a clarification at the top of the page to distinguish from the Boston Brahmin accent. i don't know if this is the conventional way of such notation, so if anyone else wants to bring that into line with other wikipedia conventions, please do so.

As far as I know, your link was stylistically all right; however, I removed it because I have yet to see a reputable source which states that the accent of Boston Brahmins differs from the characteristics of the Boston accent described in this article. The Boston Brahmin accent article itself is linguistically confused, hopelessly vague, and totally unsourced, and it only refers to the speech of individuals who are not Boston Brahmins; see my comments in Talk:Boston Brahmin accent. AJD 05:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Southeastern New England

Boston is not considered "Southeastern New England" which is usually used to describe areas south of Boston. The Boston accent is common to areas to the North and South of Boston and in Boston itself. The accent is very similar in areas of southern Maine, New Hampshire and Rhode Island. A very different accent is heard in central and western Massachusetts. I don't really know how to define the area perfectly, because there is a gradual shift in the accent. In Portland, Maine, one can hear something very similar to a Boston accent, with differences such as "ayup" instead of "yup," for example. It is hard to tell where the Boston accent ends and the Maine accent begins. Alcinoe 11:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vocabulary Section

I live in Northern Ireland and I just wanted to point out that I recognise some of the words and phrases which are listed under Boston slang. For example: "blinker" to mean a car indicator light, "mint" for good, and "says" in place of said. I also notice a parallel between the stated use of the word "wicked", as in very, and what some rural dwellers in Ulster say - wild, ie "That car was going wild fast!" Less common in these parts is the use of "hey" to end a question or statement - "What time are you going home, hey?". In this case, it is peculiar to Ballymena and "hey" is pronounced "hi." I wonder then if the Boston dialect is just a descendent of the language used by the many Irish settlers who left these shores to make their home in New England. I'm not a linguist by any means, but has anyone else got any ideas? Paddyman1989 00:33, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Old post, but I've always thought this. I got my accent from my mother I'd assume (my dad's is much less strong), who, although only the granddaughter of Irish immigrants (Cork, of course...), was raised only by her 100% Irish decent mother in Lowell, Massachusetts. She calls Horses Haasiz and Corn is Cahn, Bath is Baahth, etc. So, not only do we have no rs, but we have that flat A that is very atypical of American English. So, it wouldn't surprise me if our words were largely Irish based as well. One thing that seems to have definitely changed is my generation very rarely says "So I says:" etc. We use "I'm like" like the rest of young America. CSZero 17:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Carol Danvers (Ms. Marvel)

Can anybody tell me if this is the accent Ms. Marvel talks in? I'm from Holland, and I love to hear the voices of the characters in my comic books in their genuine accents; I hear Rogue (from X-Men) in a Mississippi drawl, I would love to know if this is what Carol sounds like. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.69.56.237 (talk) 17:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

Yes, most likely. Carol Danvers is from Beverly, MA, north of Boston. I actually work in Beverly--most people in Beverly have the standard Boston accent. BostonFrank (talk) 02:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Family Guy

Lois and Peter Griffin from Family Guy should be added to the list because they have Boston accents. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.78.96.151 (talk) 18:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Umm, isn't Family Guy suppose to be a parody of Rhode Island? --Daniel Blanchette 00:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

They sound like Rhode Islander's to my Boston ear.. It's half Boston, half New York, but exactly like neither. If you pay attention, they are much more rhotic than we are around here. (sorry, I don't have an account..)

Yes, they live in Quahog, Rhode Island and as far as I know, they do not have Boston accents. Zomic_13 01:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Thus, if that's so, then if they are a parody of RI, then they have Rhode Island accents. --Daniel Blanchette 23:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] -ing becomes -in

Having lived in Nashua, New Hampshire for most of my life, I can say for sure that many in the area, especially in and around Boston, drop the g in words ending in ing. Thus, walking becomes walkin, and so forth. I didn't see this aspect of the accent in the article.

Also, I changed coffee regular to coffee; regular in the vocabulary section, the same way it's listed in the Boston slang article. Verbatim, people order a "regular coffee." The words are most likely reversed in the list to put the noun first.

note i moved it to regular coffee. as for the dropping g's I'm positive other parts of the country do so too. New England 07:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, I restored your version of the coffee thing. New England 08:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Does it say in this article or does anyone know if Boston is continuing to be non-rhotic for the most part? Or is it becoming like most of the country in that way (rhotic)? Just curious. 208.104.45.20 03:18, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

It is still mostly non-rhotic, but since the internet, and globalization more people are aware of the accent, and compensate. More "older" (over 35) still have it, but it's less so than it was years ago, when we were ignorant to the fact we ever did have an accent at all. After traveling, more people pointed out my accent so that I became self-conscience, and modified my speach. It's still hard to do, almost like another language. I have to watch my R's. I hate words or names like Mark, car, park, etc. My sister and I now live in the Midwest (we're older) and we laugh at times, especially when trying to be conscience of our "R's". One funny thing that we are both guilty of, is saying, "con on the corb", instead of "corn on the cob". It's weird, subconsciously, being unsure where the "r" belongs, as in the phase above. lol. All my family who still live there have the pure Boston accent, the younger ones, have it to a lessor degree, but it's still obvious. They say I sound like a "hick", here they think I'm from New York, or have a speach impediment the longer I'm here, because it's not a real Boston accent, and some words I find hard to say (like "hard") <shrug> - Jeeny ^Talk 03:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I was born in Southie, but now live in the suburbs and I've noticed that me and my friends seem to slip in and out of using the accent (mainly our pronunciation of R). New England ^{(C) (H)} 04:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The Boston accent was always a white thing, so the massive exodus of whites from the city has removed it in many places. I'm sure it's still there in the suburbs they moved to, but the strongest examples are probably being smoothed over. I don't talk to kids, so I don't hear them very often. Isolation was the key, and the tight, crowded neighborhoods of the city encouraged the differentiation. MarkinBoston 03:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not covered: Intra-Boston differences

When I went to a city-wide high school in the late sixties, I learned that different parts of the city had different accents. The Southie kids were immediately recognizable, as were some from Dorchester. West Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, Roslindale, Hyde Park, and Brighton were all about the same. Since then, many of those people have moved out of the city, so I suspect that the differences won't last much longer, if they even haven't already disappeared. I have no references, so it's purely anecdotal, but real none the less.

And for the love of God, the Kennedys have NOTHING to do with the classic Boston accent. I have no idea where they got it, but it's more downeast yankee than Boston streets. I can only assume that it was some kind of Lace Curtain posing. MarkinBoston 02:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

If you can find some reliable research on this stuff, go ahead. For the most part, dialectological differences between different parts of the same city have almost never been found that weren't actually the effect of social class and/or ethnicity, rather than neighborhoods. AJD 03:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't have any references - I was hoping to call out someone who does. The differences between Irish-American, working-class housing project dwellers in South Boston and Jamaica Plain was dramatic to my Boston ear. Needless to say, it's too late to do the research now. MarkinBoston 16:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Well-known speakers

Not only is this section a catch-basin for anyone from eastern New England, it is also full of particularly bad examples. The Kennedys, George Mitchell, Leonard Nemoy, Christopher Lydon? Professional media people work hard to lose their accents, George Mitchell is from Maine, and the Kennedys are in their own world. And Tommy "Mumbles" Menino? God bless him, but if people get the idea Tommy is representative of the rest of us, we're in big trouble. I could take out the most egregrious names, but the section would just fill up again as the page gets views. I recommend removing the section, and putting a mention of Tom and Ray in another place. How many of the rest are known by voice by at least an American audience? Jermaine Wiggins? Andy Card? MarkinBoston 16:51, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I removed Nemoy and Bette Davis. They do not, IMO, nor did not, have the Boston accent, that I know of. Perhaps they did at one time. As for Bette Davis her accent seems like a cross between the Kennedy's and Katharine Hepburn (who was born in Conneticut)... well that's best way I can describe it anyway. I don't know the others you listed, as I have not heard them speak. Jeeny ^(talk) 05:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone else think this section is now out of control? I don't know many of these people, so I can't judge whether all of them do or don't have a Boston accent, but I think there needs to be a limit at some point. I see people continually add to the list, and it seems too long to me. Kman543210 (talk) 05:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bummer

Agrofe: The standard for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability. CSZero and I both say believe that bummer is not a distinctive feature of Boston English, and you haven't shown any evidence to verify your assertion that it is (for instance, evidence that it's not used in other dialects). You have to expect that implausible claims made without evidence will be removed. AJD 22:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I think moreso we should have a semi-formal add/remove to this list. I am a Lowellian in my mid-20s, so my list of "Boston Words" might be different. Agrofe is from Acton, which I can imagine is even more divergent from the blue-collar generations-old speak this article is talking about. Either way, many words on this list are non-verifiable. I'll post my truncated I'd-like-these-list here. CSZero 01:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Here is its. I'm basing these on either (it seems) well-known examples or words I've used even in upstate New York and been looked at funny:

* bubbler or water bubbler — 'drinking fountain'

* bang a Uey — To take a U-turn

* down cellar — 'in the basement'

* frappe — 'a blend of ice cream, milk, and syrup'[2] (milkshake refers to a concoction not made with ice cream)

* jimmies - chocolate 'sprinkles'

* (This one wouldn't surprise me but I don't know) johnny — a medical gown worn by patients for examinations

* milk shake - 'drink composed of milk and flavored syrup, without ice cream[3]'

* packie — 'liquor store', short for "package store"

* parlor - 'living room', 'family room'

* pisser (sounds like pissah) - Good, great. Also an affectionate term for someone who does something mischievous (i.e. "Aaron is such a pissah, he invited us to a party and then charged us to get in!") Also, the cliche term "wicked pissah" is selectively used in Boston, though is becoming archaic.

* regular coffee — 'coffee with milk (or cream) and usually two spoonfuls of sugar'

* rotary — 'traffic circle or roundabout'

* (This is listed often but I've never heard it) spa — 'convenience store' (originally, it meant a store with a soda : fountain). A "Town Spa" is often a pizza restaurant.

* tonic — 'soft drink' (tonic is retreating in favor of soda among younger speakers)

* The Pike - A term commonly used by Bostonians when referring to the Massachusetts Turnpike

* The T - Public transportation in the Metro Boston area. Refers to the subway, the streetcar, the ferry, and the bus.

* triple decker — or more commonly three decker a three-story, three-family home with one unit built on top of the other'

* wicked — 'very'; alternatively, 'wicked' may also indicate approval or become a universal descriptor, e.g., "That chowdah was wicked good."

I would add Elastic at least. Rubber band just about everywhere else. I think we need a section on grammatical things we say as well that are totally wrong: "So he says / I says" as opposed to the newer "he's like / I'm like" and my personal favorite that never flies out of state "Yeah? Well so don't I!" Look that up Bostonians, that should be do :-) CSZero 01:49, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

"Light Dawns on Marblehead" While we're at it - it never occured to me that this expression was about the town. Is that true, and if so, does the expression escape the areas? CSZero 01:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with "elastic", no one here, (OHIO) understands the connection at all. I'm not sure if there is anywhere else it is common or even known to mean a "rubber band". I hate having to change my speech/words for others to understand me. Good lord, I'm actually calling "tonic" "pop"! But, I can't call my aunt an ant....evah. lol. - Jeeny ^(talk) 09:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I also agree with elastic. But who's idea was "Tzar" for pizza? That's wrong. It's just "Za". BostonFrank (talk) 02:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] North Shore

I was sitting in a restarant in Rockport, Massachusetts a few months ago and two elderly men were seated at the next table over. They had a very strong but different accent than the Lowell accent I'm used to (which in my opinion, is practically identical to the Boston one). My first guess was they were from Maine based on the dropped rs, extreme flat as, and drawl, but after picking up a bit of the conversation, they were from the North Shore. My father always told me that people in Essex County speak differently from those in Middlesex, I believe his wording was "higher class." Is there any veracity to this? Is the accent I was hearing typical Naahth Shaah, and is it essentially dead? Should we discuss that in this article? Thanks, CSZero (talk) 18:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I was born and grew up in Essex County and have lived there for 20+ years. This is strictly anecdotal, but it seems that those in Essex County have a milder form of the Boston accent which is often closer to the speech in southern New Hampshire than the speech of those who live in the most accented areas such as Revere and Medford. Many of those who live in Essex County, especially the smaller towns, have moved in from other parts of the country, and communities like Boxford, Andover, Manchester-by-the-Sea, and Lynnfield are quite rich; and the influence of television is probably more prevalent in outer suburbs than in the inner suburbs and the city. The effect of these influences is a milder Boston accent in the area. I haven't noticed a strong accent or a drawl in Essex County like you have described -- especially when contrasted to those who grew up just north of Boston. They are probably from Maine, but who knows? :-) Midtempo-abg (talk) 09:20, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested Additions

There is nothing in this article about "youse" and "youse guys" for the third-person plural pronoun. People that speak this dialect sometimes say "I says" instead of "I said" for the past tense conjugation of the first-person singular as well. There is also a tendency to put the letter "s" at the end of certain words where it normally is not found. I have heard "everywhere" pronounced "everywheres". My Massachusetts neighbors have all these features in their speech. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 23:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

You are right that some people say "youse" and/or "youse guys". I know this as a fact, but it is not exclusive to Boston. It's the Northeast's version of ya'll, or y'all. It's not just used in Boston, but New England, Philly, NJ and NY. It's regional. If you can find a reliable source that states it's a Boston thang, then go for it. But, I've already tried and was unsuccessful. Like I said, it's a Northeasterm dialect thing. Now, "I says" for "I said" is so wrong. Maybe you're misunderstanding your neighbors. Well, you said "Massachusetts neighbors", not Boston. Western Mass. has a different dialect. Where do you live? lol Hearing your neighbors say this is using original research, anyway(s). - Jeeny ^(talk) 18:39, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but you should trust me. Think about it: If I'm going to waste my time editing dialect articles on Wikipedia, do you truly believe I'm going to make this stuff up? I've always known that "youse guys" is not EXCLUSIVE to Boston, but that doesn't mean it is not worth mentioning in this aritlce, just to let people know it's part of the lexicon (the vocabulary of a particular dialect). I mean it's not NOT a part of their speech, right? Trust me, I can tell the difference between the voiced "d" sound at the end of "said" and the sibilant, voiceless "s" sound at the end of "says". According to this article, the "Boston Accent" is not restricted to the city proper. The husband IS from Boston itself and his wife is from eastern Massachusetts (but still speaks this dialect). The dialect of western (not capitalized) Massachusetts more resembles Inland Northern American English (the dialect with the Northern Cities Vowel Shift). There is a considerable amount of difference between this dialect and the former. The most obvious being the rhoticity. LOL is right, my friend. 208.104.45.20 19:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jeeny, many of the entries in the lexicon part of this article are not exclusively used in Bean Town. Do you think we should be so exclusionary?--Agrofe 19:59, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for taking this to the talk page. I watch this article and the mild edit-warring that brews is obnoxious and makes things hard to follow. Original research still, but it it definitely common for older eastern Mass people to say "I says" "he says" etc. It's been replaced in the younger generations with the national "I'm like" "he's like" etc. Then again, as I've mentioned 100 times on this page, I'm from Lowell, not Boston. I've never heard "youse" used around here. CSZero 20:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

And to answer your question, yes, I think we should be relatively exclusionary. Just like you tried to add "Bummer" last time, which is heard in media from many parts of the english speaking world. If we do want to mention some of the larger regional ones, like youse, which now that I think of it, I might occasionally hear "youse have no idear what I mean do ya?" then I would asterick it as being part of larger Northeast English. The one that I mention here from time to time that again, I have no data on, is the use of negative contractions in place of positive ones: "So haven't I", etc. I think in general, Bostonians, for such an educated group, have poor venacular, but a lot of it isn't universial to the area or unique. CSZero 20:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how "edit-warring" makes anything hard to follow; especially when it's none of your business. We have the right to argue on Wikipedia until we get things right. However, I do respect your thoughts, though I wish Jeeny would respond to my comments instead of someone else. 208.104.45.20 23:00, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, no, you don't have the right to just edit away until you get it right. I'm glad you respect my opinion to take it here instead of the page - however, it's hardly my opinion. Please read WP:Three_revert_rule and note that if not to the letter, the spirit of this rule has been broken here by both sides. You are approaching an "edit war" and it's a problem in this article in general. And declaring it none of my business is also incorrect. This is a public-domain encyclopedia, it's anyone's business who wants to make it their business. As a community member, I have a right to do my part towards having as factual of an encyclopedia and as friendly of a community as possible. Again, I'm not even disagreeing with your edits (nor are you implying I am) but the literally two minutes it takes to register will help make it easier for other editors to assume good faith on your edits a tad easier. I've seen your editing before, you know your stuff, you really should register. CSZero 23:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I've also been watching this slow burn edit war, and all I have to say is that if those wanting "youse" and what not included, they should perhaps read the policies related to original research, verifiability and reliable sources. Until the material is added with sources to back it up, I will support its excision from the article. Mr. anonymous IP: It's like Reagan said: trust but verify. Jeffpw 00:17, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean offense to anyone. Sometimes I just get frustrated. I don't even care much about these edits. I just wanted to see if I could get some successful edits included in this article. The point is I know what I say is true. That satisfies me enough. Thanks for telling me the rules on Wikipedia. I really like the idea of a public-edited encyclopedia. 208.104.45.20 05:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Josh

I was watching This Old House and I heard one of the men use the term "josh". By the context, he seemed to be using it to mean "thing". He said, "Whuddya think of this josh?". I was wondering if that term was unique to the area. It's probably not, but I'm just not used to hearing that. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 00:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that was the other dude's name -- Josh. lol. I was born and raised there and the only other meaning that I can think of, and is not unique to the area, is; "josh; to joke, or to tease". - Jeeny ^(talk) 04:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

You have an offensive tone of superiority. As if I did not know what the verb "josh" meant. Please do not use "lol" anymore with me. It is annoying as hell. I don't care how you meant it; it comes off as arrogant when you write it. Thanks. LMAO 208.104.45.20 (talk) 21:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] æ-tensing

It seems like æ-tensing occurs more often in Boston speech than just before nasals. I was wondering if anyone else noticed. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 20:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Accent gaps"

This whole new section, as a previous editor suggested in an edit comment, lies somewhere between OR, speculation, and fabrication. It's probably true that Newton and Brookline display less in the way of overt Boston accent features, but that doesn't make them not part of the Boston-accent speech community. Rather, I'd suggest, it's presumably because Newton and Brookline are affluent upper-middle-class communities, and many of the most recognizable features of the Boston accent have some social disfavor attached to them and drop off in the higher-status social groups throughout the Boston dialect region. Anyhow, it's simply not true that Jews "have been found" to lack the Boston accent; Jews have the accent just as much as anyone else. AJD (talk) 05:38, 13 April 2008 (UTC)