Talk:Bossa nova

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Delisted version: September 19, 2006
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Contents

[edit] Lyrics

How many lyrics can be displayed without violating copright?

[edit] Image

If someone would like to fix the image for me, I can't get it right and must sleep now.Hyacinth

  • Image:Basic bossa-nova guitar rhythm.bmp
  • Image:Basic bossa nova guitar rhythm.bmp

I'm not sure what the problem is, but anyway, I've trimmed it and reuploaded as a PNG: Image:Basic bossa nova guitar rhythm.PNG Both of the above images are BMPs -- Tarquin 09:37, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Yes, trimming would have been part of the problem, thanks for that. The picture actually won't display on my computer, and I would have no idea why. Hyacinth 09:41, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Hey whats the easiest way to create an image of music anyways, becuase I'd like to add some music on several pages. Nathan Wonnacott 01:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dance

This text was added to the page Bossa Nova (dance) but it is not about dance. I don't know enough about it to integrate it into this page smoothly.

"Bossa Nova(dance)often referred to simply as bossa or bossa nova jazz/bossa nova lounge is often grouped with Acid Jazz(Nu-Jazz). In slang the genre is referred to as bossa nil beat(nil= NL for Nossa Lounge) or 'the bossa som beat' or embossa. This type of dance music is the remixing of music by Brazilian Jazz artist of the 60's and 70's. The name Bossa Nova, which in Portuguese means New Way, is jazz style music from Brazil that for a time replaced samba music.

To some extent djs like Mark Farina have used the bossa nova sound on their mix cds to form part of the mushroom jazz sound. Other artist that are more identified with the bossa som beat are Nicola Conte, Pablo Casiguez, Ranier Truby Trio, Bossa Nostra, Paul Emetrez, Vegas Lounge, Jazzanova..." Rmhermen 21:46, May 25, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Jazz vs Debussy

  • "In the sphere of what could be called more popular arts, bossa nova mixed Debussy, Cole Porter, and traditional samba to send the 'Girl from Ipanema' swinging around the world."
    • Hallam, Elizabeth ed. (2000). "Rephrasing identity in Brazil", by Reynaud, Ana in Cultural Encounters: Representing Otherness. Routledge. ISBN 0415202795.
  • "It is often claimed that Jobim was inspired by cool jazz and bebop. Not true; he actually preferred the Glenn Miller Orchestra to the experimentations of Charlie Parker. According to Jobim himself, his major influences were Debussy, Villa-Lobos, Stravinsky, Chopin - and samba."
    • Draffen, Andrew (2001). Lonely Planet Rio De Janeiro, p. 130. Lonely Planet Publications. ISBN 1864503068.
  • "One of the musicians he [Claudio] listened to, as did Jobim and Gilberto, was Gerry Mulligan. In 1959, Claudio said, the Brazilian label called Musidisc was issuign the Pacific Jazz records in Brazil.
  • 'Everybody was into West Coast jazz then,' he said. 'These records were issued by Musidisc there. Any other stuff would be imported and harder to find. That's why West Coast jazz influenced the bossa nova people that much. I am quite sure that Chet Baker was an influence. The arrangments of the period all sound as if they were influenced by Bud Shank or Gerry Mulligan or those cats. And mainly Mulligan.' Virtually every musician involved in the bossa nova movement attests to this North American influence.
  • Jobim, however, late in his life, tended to minimize the American influence. He told an interviewer that Debussy and Villa-Lobos were very strong influences on him. He continued: 'As for jazz, real jazz, I never had much access. What we listened to here were those big bands. Real jazz here was something for collectors, for rich playboy types....'
  • 'I'm not much of a connoisseur of jazz.' Maybe. But he liked working with American jazzmen such as Ron Carter and Urbie Green. 'Later on, I saw that purists here were saying that bossa nova was a copy of American jazz. When these people would say bossa nova's harmony was based on jazz, I thought it was funny because this same harmony already existed in Debussy. No way is it American. To say a ninth chord is an American invention is absurd. These altered eleventh and thirteenth chords, with all these added notes, you can't say they're an American invention. This kind of this is as much South American as it is North Ameridcan. Americans took to bossa nova because they thought it was interesting. If it was a mere copy of jazz, they wouldn't be interested. They're tired of copies of jazz. There's Swedish jazz, French jazz, German jazz--Germans are full of jazz.'...
  • ...He was right, of course, that this kind of harmony was not an American invention. But what he told that interviewer is at variance with what he told me in earlier years, particulary about the influence of Mulligan. A simple example: Roberto Menescal's charming "O Barquinho" is based on the chord changes of Ralph Burns' "Early Autumn". And the chart on it in the JoAo Gilberto record, which I have always assumed Jobim wrote, sounds like the Stan Kenton band.
  • And Dori Caymmi (guitarist, arranger, composer, and son of Dorival Caymmi), said: 'Shorty Rogers for me was the inventor of bossa nova because he played the way JoAo and Tom played.'...
  • ...One is forced to reflect that JoAo Gilberto's soft vibratoless singing may have been influenced by that of Chet Baker. It was also influenced--and he told me this long ago--by the French singer from Martinique, Henri Salvador, as well as some earlier Brazilian singers. And so in the longer genealogy, one is forced to conclude that Gil Evans and Claude Thornhill were among the important influences on bossa nova, because of their influence on Mulligan.
  • ...Jobim met Gil Evans just once. Gil's widow, Anita, recalled the encounter. 'Gil and I,' Anita said, 'were at a party at the apartment of a painter we knew. Jobim was there. When he saw Gil, he got down on his knees and walked across the room on his knees and kissed Gil's feet.'
  • 'Gil was blown away.'"
    • Lees, Gene (1999). Singers and the Song II, p.229-30. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195122089.
  • Anyone listening to the Chet Baker recordings (especially the vocals) can hear a remarkable similarity to the style of Astrud Gilberto! Can someon please explore this possibility or bring to light any research? thanks--Tednor 09:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bossa nova = samba + Debussy?

The anonymous user's assertion (in jazz and Latin jazz) that "bossa nova = samba + Debussy" is absurd. The "Debussy and Ravel vs. Chet Baker and Gerry Mulligan" bossa nova debate has simmered for years, but it should be clear that bossa nova's debt to the French romantic impressionist composers is strictly through Jobim, because he was classically trained in the piano. But he was basically the only one with that background, and people tend mention the Debussy reference just to give bossa a pedigree.
Granted, the influence is legitimate, and those familiar 7(13)-7(b13)-m7 progressions can be clearly heard in the classical stuff. But Joao Gilberto, Carlos Lyra, and Roberto Menescal weren't into Debussy, they dug Barney Kessel. Even pianists Sergio Mendes, Johnny Alf, and Joao Donato dug Stan Kenton. And everyone liked Sinatra. -- Paul Richter 03:25, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
That information, as well as, or through, the quotes above, would be great in the article as it settles any dispute regarding the equation in my opinion. Hyacinth 04:19, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

See also "The Diminished Seventh Chord as Prolongational Agent in Bach, Chopin and Jobim" (Norman Carey, Eastman School of Music). For an in-depth and well researched analysis of bossa nova, choro and links between France/French composers and Brazil/Brazilian composers see writings of Daniella Thompson (e.g., http://www.joaogilberto.org/daniella.htm and http://daniellathompson.com/). The influence, direct or indirect (as a conduit), of Villa-Lobos on bossa nova should not be underestimated.

With respect to Debussy: "Tom Jobim’s “Chovendo na Roseira” was influenced by Claude Debussy (it quotes his famous Rêverie and La plus que lente) to such an extent that its original title before it had acquired lyrics was “Children’s Games,” in honor of the French composer’s Children’s Corner." (see daniellathompson.com). Gasparotti mauro


(Above comment written 03:42, 15 March 2006 by 66.236.28.6)

[edit] Delisted GA

Only one reference given, which isn't even an inline citation, doesn't even indicate whether it even references the article at all, much less references it well, which is a requirement for Good Article status. Great expansion of references will be necessary. Homestarmy 19:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

I was reading this article and although I'm a Pixies fan it just doesn't make sense to put Bossanova in the external links. The album has no meaningful reference to Bossa Nova (except the verse "I want to bossanova with you" - from memory). And the album is already listed in the disambiguation page.

[edit] Mainstream popularity

"Significant in Brazil, but not as popular there as it was in the United States, Western Europe, and Japan." That's the greatest stupidity I've ever read in Wikipedia. Bossa Nova is clearly more popular in Brazil than anywhere else. Changed. --El Chemaniaco 14:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

One has to note that it was exceedingly popular in Eastern Europe as well. --Humanophage 09:12, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Facts

"To this day in Brazil, the word "bossa" when used alone can still be a reference to "style" or "flair", as it was in the days when "bossa nova" was created." There's no need for a citation here. El Chemaniaco 14:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I think "attitude" is a good translation. In a Brazillian podcast by BBC's Gilles Peterson most all of the Brazillian artists translate the term to mean a "New Attitude" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.22.19.194 (talk) 17:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
I agree completely with El Chemaniaco. The slang "bossa" was used in early 2000's, only in a few places, and it is neither in use anymore. Definitely, there is no need for a citation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zezojardim (talk • contribs).

[edit] "First Single"

The sentence about the first Bossa single makes that claim for "Girl from Ipanema". While that was a smash in the United States, making lots of people aware of Bossa Nova for the first time, Stan Getz had an American hit single two years before with "Desafinado" (according to allmusic.com). And Caetano Veloso has talked about the impact on Brazilian musicians of João Gilberto's first single ca. 1959, 'Chega de Saudade.' Not to split hairs, but while "Girl from Ipanema" can be described as the first American bossa nova hit featuring a vocal, it's not the genre's first single, in America or elsewhere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.85.228.129 (talk) 20:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Failure for 0.7

This article, at this time, has failed for inclusion in Release Version 0.7 due to the weasel words tags and neutrality tags. If the article can properly be edited to satisfy those tags, please resubmit for inclusion. --Ozgod 03:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] http://www.bitencourt.net/en/5-bossa/index.html

Dear moderators,

Please take a deep breath and go to this page http://www.bitencourt.net/en/5-bossa/index.html Now please tell me in the name of God: is this page spam, yes or no???

It's a unique slideshow about Bossa Nova with many rare photos of artists which you won't find anywhere else on the internet and with important information about this musical movement!!! I'm a brazilian musician, expert in Bossa Nova, and know what I'm talking about.

So please, not because you have the power to delete or block things here you should do this all the time just because it may be fun or so.

1. Inform yourself about Bossa Nova 2. Visit this page 3. Compare 4. See that it's for God's sake NOT spam!!!

If you delete this link again then know that YOU and not me are destroying the wikipedia idea, just because you think you have the power to delete things. Bossa Nova is my life and I want the world to know as much as possible about it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.17.64.245 (talk • contribs).

Adding external links is not improving the wikipedia, adding links only is, under the wikipedia definition, spamming. Please read our spam guideline. We are writing an encyclopedia here, not a linkfarm. --Dirk Beetstra T C 23:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Gal Costa

Please stop removing Gal Costa's name from the list. Like it or not, Bossa Nova is, and always has been part of her repertoire. In fact, during her appearances in the United States (spanning 30+ years), she has sung nothing but Bossa Nova. I would suspect the same is probably true for her concerts in Japan and Israel, too, or at least a large part of those concerts. Consequences2 02:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)