Talk:Boris Tadić

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 Boris Tadić was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: February 18, 2008
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[edit] grandparents' death

His grandparents have been killed in the Ustaša Genocide - such an expression cannot be used in an Encyclopedia - you should be more specific about their death - were they mudered, executed or were they killed in a battle or during the bombing, etc. Jasra 20:33, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

not in a battle or bombing, they were killed in a massacre. one of so many - people were thrown into pits, burnt alive inside ortodox churches, or killed in places like jasenovac. his parents were from herzegovina, where some of the worst atrocities of ustashe happened. their only crime was being ortodox serbian. it is no surprise that his grandparents were killed - most of serbs from that area have someone in their families killed in the holocaust. the sentence says quite clearly - killed in genocide. that means not in battle/bombing, but deliberately executed for being serbian - quite widespread in ndh. Cicceroa 08:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Though I don't dispute any of your facts Cicceroa, the term 'genocide' is still one of controversy and its usage should be bannished from any encyclopaedia: I mean this about so-called Serb genocide of the 90s too. Because I am neutral over Balkan conflicts, I am often seen to defend Serb/Yugoslav actions in the 90s, at the same time, I have to be fair towards all parties. The nature of Genoicde is satirical entire of itself. The person who coined the term was a jew in the aftermath of World War II to describe the holocaust. Geno- taken from Greek and -cide from latin (to kill), everybody knows this now. In an actual genocide, you don't let a single person go, nor do you stop the atrocity when war has ended, your drive is to finish the job and your own life is not worth continuation should you fail. Only the global elite can try war criminals for genocide on the grounds that they "murdered members of a religious group" or "temporarily created inhumane conditions for an ethnic group" (so we should accuse Americans of genocide after they bomb a market in Baghdad because three of the victims supported the same football team; football=religion to fanatics; members of a religious group are killed; America=Genocide), or perhaps having more than one member of a nationality in the same prison in California and running the heating a mere 4 degrees too warm for half an hour in the afternoon=inhumane conditions for an ethnic group); it is a joke, the term 'genocide'. If the gen- was really subject to -cide, Mr.Tadic would not be here himself (unless his parents declared themselves Croatian in which case he still wouldn't be in the same place he is now.) Celtmist 1 Apr 2006
Ustasha crimes are considered a chapter of Holocaust, in fact the most henious, if not the most well known. The genocide was downplayed in Tito's time - quite the opposite happenes now, when massacre of several thousand prisoners in Srebrenica is proclaimed genocide. Certainly, claim that Ustasha genocide was genocide is far less contraversial, since Holocaust is the prime example of genocide. Maybe one should say that his grandparents were victims of Holocaust. However, Ustashe played an enthusiastic role in this, and their role should be underlined - they died in Holocaust, as victims of Ustasha's. Cicceroa 11:44, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that the phrasing should be dispute, only the accuracy. It is a quality of encyclopedias to be concrete and precise about something. Saying that the Ustaše killed Tadić's grandparents is about as precise as saying that they were killed in WWII, and only a bit more precise than saying that they were killed in one of the world wars in the 20th century. Combined with the fact that this is mentioned in the lead section, one can't conclude anything other than lack of any knowledge about what it means to edit an encyclopedia on part of the person who wrote that. --Joy [shallot] 12:52, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tadic a Croat

It is always sad to hear of what happened on both sides in ww2. The Chetniks and Ustashe not only killed other ethnic groups who wouldn't join them but their own people. In the case of Mr Tadic whos last name is of Croat origin without doubt I can understand him being very anti Croat because of what happened to his grandparents. This sort of story was also common in Dalmatia where Ustashe killed Croats...SAD BUT TRUE..

This is a good lesson that the Chetniks and Ustashe were an evil minority hell bent on distruction and nobody stood in the way, not even own people...anyone who says iam wrong must be crazy.

I think death of Yugoslav Partizan war hero Bosko Buha (ethnic Serb)sums this up, he was killed by Serbian Chetniks...see what i mean..killed by own blood.

Evergreen Montenegro1 02:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I doubt anyone should disagree Evergreen. Celt 16 Apr 2006
We can add partisans to that list as well Krakas 01:24, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Not a place for such discussion, but bringing down the Chetniks to the same level as Ustashe and paralel their incomparable crimes is at least malicious. And should be forbidden by International law, like Jews did for crimes over their people. Chetniks were sometimes brutal soldiers fighting the greater part of WW2 against Germans, and the other part of war against domestic enemies on the same side as Germans, while Ustashe held concentration camps which had several hundred thousands Serbs, Romas and Jews dead (see article for an example). --213.244.209.253 (talk) 22:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nomenclature

I believe the use of the title professor is problematic. While in Serbia high school-level instructors are referred to as "professors," this is not the case in the United States, where it is reserved for those with a doctoral degree. Thus, unless Tadic holds a PhD degree in psychology--which I don't believe he does--the use of the term may be misleading to native speakers. This is further compounded by the use of the term gymnasium, which, in English, denotes a gymnastics hall--or gym, for short--whereas in Serbian, it refers to an ordinary high school, in the U.S. sense of the word. Therefore, I believe it may be better to put the word gymnasium in parentheses and replace professor with teacher.

Not only does a person have to have a phd to call him/herself a professor, he also has to actually teach at a collage, or other institution of higher learning Krakas 01:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Tadic can't be considered from Bosnia and Herzegovina because lived there couple of years of his life.

[edit] Great Article about Tadic

I like this article in whole, especially the truth about his family members, and letting the world know what lies behind so called "croatian democracy". There were always a minority between croatian people (ustasas, hdz, etc.) that were spreading hostility and evil towards their south slavic brothers. Now they're dying out, and will probably dissappear totally soon, that's a fact. Still, there'are always some "leftovers" from the evil forces, who are even dare to write on the pages of this beautiful and neat encyclopedia. Anyway, their broken "gebbels" propaganda is finished, it's dead forever; On the contrary, a strong will of renewed south slav brotherhood is raising again between all south slavic peoples, and their new victory over the demons from the past is coming very soon..

Someone should put a picture of Tadic where he is posing in front of a serbian flag, like all the other presidents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.200.34.178 (talk) 12:51, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Putin

Putin has not given support to Tadic. The page mis-cites a source where it says that Putin told Tadic happy birthday. (LAz17 (talk) 05:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)).

..and congratulates on his future presidency. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:12, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

He did not congratulate him on his future presidency. That article is in Serbian, so you can't read it I suppose? At any rate, here is the english translation of it, http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=15&nav_id=46942 It is clear that Putin did not give support for Tadic in the elections. This is just a false insert into the article so that Tadic would get more votes for the current election and election run-off. (LAz17 (talk) 16:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)).


PaxEquilibrium is right. Stop removing the information. --Avala (talk) 16:33, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


He is not right. That serbian article says nothing future presidency, and the english translation further proves my point. (LAz17 (talk) 16:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)).

I have read the article and it does express Putin's support to Boris Tadic and wishes him all the best in the future in his job (his job is the President of Serbia). Now I don't think Putin ment "I wish you all the best until the election" when he said in the future. --Avala (talk) 17:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

He did not say that. He said told Tadić all the best in his activities for “the good of our friends, Serbia.” It is no secret that Tadić's goals are not to bring Serbia closer to Russia but to the EU. Putin does not support him. He just said a couple friendly sentances, just like when Kostunica congratulates the Muslims or Jews for their holiday... it does not mean that he supports them, it's just a few friendly words. (LAz17 (talk) 17:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC)).

[edit] Infobox

Would you just as readily call Gordon Brown Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in his infobox? No, Would you call the US National Security Advisor the Assistant to the President of the United States of America for National Security Affairs? That is why was use the most common and shortened form. Numbers aren't used for the majority of infoboxes now and it is extremely misleading to label Milutinović as his predecessor when there are FOUR people who served after him. Acting or not, his predecessor is Marković. Therequiembellishere (talk) 20:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Why not use the numbers? It is a lot better when you know if he is the 1st, 2nd or 3rd president. If not better, it's easier to find your way around here. Baks (talk) 14:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you seen the pages of officeholders? Especially HoS and HoGs. In any case, this was fought over with Avala a little and they independently agreed not to use them. Therequiembellishere (talk) 19:41, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

There is a big difference between Acting President and President of Serbia. --Baks (talk) 17:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, that's kind of thee point. Therequiembellishere (talk) 17:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

This article has quite a lot of problems that need to be addressed.

  • Lead needs to be expanded to provided a concise and comprehensive summary of the article. At the moment, the lead is very short and does not cover the important details of Tadic's career such as his policies/ideologies/achievements but rather contains the exact date of his swearing in etc. There is no need to say that he is a member of his party. Clearly, since he is the leader of an organisation, he must be a member
    • Fixed.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Dates need to be formatted. Some years are wikilinked, some are lot. I see "January 15" and then "15 January" and also placed where there are commas before the year, but others where there are not
    • Fixed all dates in the article as suggested (apart from the infobox which has different style).--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I think it would be good to state the years of his ministry in telecommunications and defense. For a layman, they might see "FR Yugoslavia" and think it meant "former Yugoslavia" before it broke up or something.
    • Fixed. Now it says Minister of Defence of Serbia and Montenegro In office 17 March 2003 – 16 April 2004 and Federal Minister of Telecommunications of Yugoslavia In office 4 November 2000 – 17 March 2003.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Lots of "Boris Tadic" everywhere. After the first time, simply refer to him as "Tadic"
    • Fixed.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • " His father, Ljubomir Tadić, a philosopher of renown descent from Montenegro from the Pivans Herzegovinian clan who is a member of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts." needs fixing - grammar
    • Fixed.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • ARe his parents still philosophers and psychologists - or are they retired.
    • His father is still active (when do philosophers retire?) and his mother is retired I believe.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • his grandparents should be moved to the start of the family bakground since they were killed in WW2. Also can it be explained why they were killed
    • Fixed.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "Liberation" should be in italics as it is the name, not in quotes, else it is a POV mocking the name of the newspaper
    • Fixed.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • A large problem of the article is a massive lack of sources and also that there are many one-line paragraphs
    • Fixed & fixed. Article now has a source for all the information. Personal life and info about parents is sourced from refs 6 and 7 (Biography & Živeli smo skromno) even though I didn't put a ref link at the end of the every sentence. --Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • What did Tadic do in his teenage years? We skip straight to his uni graduation
    • Fixed.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • What dissident activities did he do to get into political trouble
    • Fixed.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "Until 2003, Boris Tadić worked at the Faculty of Drama at the University of Belgrade as a lecturer of political advertising." - he trained in psych, so this career move happen? The para before said that he worked as a whole pile of other things.
    • He didn't lecture drama but political advertising which for me is rather perfect thing for a politician (political) and a psychologist(advertising).--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "After the Yugoslav Wars, Tadić advocated reform and Westernisation in the Balkans." - needs to be put in context. Tadic has not been introduced as a politician yet. In what role did he do this advocacy? As a private citizen?
    • Removed that sentence as it was indeed odd as a standalone sentence.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Do we have info on his motivation for joining politics?
    • Not that I know.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • The Center for Modern SKills seems to cut randomly into the politics section. What does this have to do with the Democratic Party and its policy. Nothing much is included in his rise in the politiical ranks during the Milosevic era. What jobs did he have within the party? How can he go straight into a cabinet post after the downfall of Milosevic?
    • Fixed.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • What policies did he implement in telecommunications and defense? None are given
    • Policy maker is the prime minister and not the minister in the government so he did not implement any ideas of his own.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • The presidency says he defeated Nikolic in 2004. Who was the incumbent and why wasn't he running? Was Tadic from the same side as his predecessor. What happened in the campaign. What did Tadic propose and how was he different from Nikolic
    • There was no incumbent. The predecessor Milutinovic was a Milosevic pawn and was already long time arrested and after him there was a charade of acting presidents until 2004. His difference to Nikolic is thoroughly explained in 2008 election which has the same runners.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "repeatedly crashed his vehicle into presidential motorcade" - did he manage to crash, reverse a long way, accelerate in, crash again, etc, etc? sources
    • Fixed. He was driving drunk but there is little information about the accident itself.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Did Tadic organise the Montenegro referendum or was it already scheduled before he came to power? Did he get criticised for not cancelling the referendum? Details needed. A breakup of a country is a big thing for its leader
    • Tadic as a President of Serbia had no influence on Montenegro. It was agreed and held in Montenegro. He could not cancel the referendum as he has no powers in Montenegro. Serbia and Montenegro was a state union of two equal republics. Serbia had no power over Montenegro or vice-vers. Boris Tadic is the leader of Serbia not the state union so it was a big thing for Svetozar Marovic not him.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Nothing abou tKosovo negotiations in the first term section.
    • He did not participate in negotiations, there was a team created to negotiate in the name of Serbia.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Many one-line paragraphs about many events, these need to be tied together to show how Tadic's rule evovled
    • They are now only in the section of his presidential activities.--Avala (talk) 20:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "terrorists" is a POV word. It cannot be used in Wikipedia's voice. It should be stated that he is referring to KLA fighters or whoever they are
    • These people were sentenced to prison because of terrorism so it's not POV but a fact. They broke out of prison in order to resume their activities. --Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Is domestic policy important in Serbia. Also, it says pro-Western but says nothing about NATO or EU explicitly. What is the Serbian attitude towards joining these orgs?
    • Domestic policy is mostly in the hands of the Government. President represents Serbia abroad while his position on domestic level is rather ceremonial.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • The election campaign is undue weight compared to the first term of action policy work
    • It was a much more important campaign. His first term was in Serbia and Montenegro so he was just president on the level of the republic (Serbia) not the head of state (Serbia and Montenegro). In 2008 the elections were held for the new head of state.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Need to explain what the consitiutional change did to necessitate an early election
    • Well if the new constitution is adopted elections on all levels are called according to constitutional law. There isn't any other information on this that we can add.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • People's Office section needs to be in the first term
    • It's his general policy spanned through both terms. Introduction of people's office is his idea. --Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • The Advisors section is unusual. Are advisors more important than ministers? Because the ministers are not mentioned.
    • Ministers are in the Government. President is not the head of Government, it's the Prime Minister. President has personal advisors.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Isn't the ideology and policies of his advisors more important than what they did in the past? Since it is about Tadic and his policies
    • It's more important to have background info in order to know who are the people he chose to advise him. They are not that strong and important to have some special policies and ideologies of their own. --Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


Recurring themes

  • Lack of sources, one line paragraphs, the article does not combine its sentences into well structured thematic sections
    • Fixed. One line paragraphs are now in the section about his presidential activities only.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Sources need to be filled in properly. Need to not use "Boris Tadic" everywhere and style conventions need to be used in a consistent manner
    • Fixed.--Avala (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 23:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Victory

I added this stunning victory in the parliamentary contest: Boris Tadic claimed victory in parliamentary elections, on May 12, 2008, despite a challenge from nationalist groups. His "For a European Serbia" alliance spearheaded by the DS was set to secure 39% of the vote. Specifically, his Coalition for European Serbia, held 38% of the vote, for 103 seats, while Tomislav Nikolic's Serbian Radical Party held 29%, or 77 seats, CeSID. Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica's Democratic Party of Serbia held 11.3%, or 30 seats.cnn.com, Serbia's pro-West president claims election victoryafp.google.com, Serbia's pro-European bloc claims shock poll win --Florentino floro (talk) 06:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)