Talk:Borg (Star Trek)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Borg (Star Trek) article.
Article policies
Archives: 1, 2, 3
Star Trek Portal
This article is part of WikiProject Star Trek, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to all Star Trek-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Archive
Archives


Contents

[edit] automata

Are they really automata? They all think one thought simultaneously, and by definition, this would mean they think independantly. --Teamcoltra 04:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The use of the term automata in the context of the Borg collective consciousness suggests the notion that as individual drones they function only to serve the will of the hive-mind rather than meaning independant units. The term may also suggest that they are independant in terms of their self-sufficiency and nothing futher.

It does not seem reasonable to assume that all Borg think one thought simultaneously as this would be in-efficient especially considering there are Borg scattered throughout the entire Milky-way galaxy and inter-dimensionally. It is more likely that all Borg experience NUMEROUS thoughts simultaneously, or that groups of Borg (or uni-matrices) depending on their inter-spacial context have different thoughts based on the will of the collective drive to assimilate other races, technology and information and that an awareness of their actions rather than that specific unimatrix's actual thoughts are permeated throughout the collective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaneo26 (talk • contribs) 12:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion about the Borg's ability to adapt

Recently, some anonymous I.P. removed the whole section about the Borgs ability to adapt being unsupported by onscreen evidence. Because this anonymous coward didn't bother to supply a reason for deleting a whole section that other editors appearantly found usefull information, and mainly because I do think it was useful information, I put the whole section back. If someone thinks it should be deleted, relocated, shortened, or whatever, please do join the discussion HERE, don't just delete a whole section with perfectly good info just because you think it's irrelevant... and certainly don't delete it without giving a reason. Greetings, RagingR2 21:19, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

...and only a few days after I put that section back, another anonymous IP comes in and deletes the whole section again. Well, you know, I'm putting it back again. Several users spent time on building that section. If you think it's nonsense or you think it doesn't belong here, the least you can do is have the decency to enter a civilized discussion here on the talk page. I personally do think that section was usefull information about the Borg. And if people keep deleting it without a discussion, the only thing I feel I can do is put it back. Oh well, I hope anyone even reads this??? RagingR2 00:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm removing it as Original Research.

This page in a nutshell: Articles may not contain any previously unpublished arguments, concepts, data, ideas, statements, or theories. Moreover, articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published arguments, concepts, data, ideas, or statements that serves to advance a position.

CovenantD 00:33, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, maybe I don't get it. But the whole thing about the Borg not being able to adapt so quickly to attacks as is sometimes stated, that whole section was backed up with a whole list of references to episodes from Star Trek TNG and VOY. How is that original research? It's merely stating the facts, and some very interesting facts at that. Maybe you have some suggestions as to what form we could mold that information in so it *would* be suitable for the article, because frankly, I do think it deserves a place in the article. In several episodes, it is stated that the Borg are able to adapt to any fact quickly. That's a fact. In several (or maybe even MORE) episodes, the Borg appear to NOT be able to adapt quickly to every attack. That's just another fact. How are facts not allowed to be in an encyclopedia article? Oh and just another point; just because you think the section that we're talking about wasn't entirely right... why do you delete the whole section? There was some good info in there that was perfectly suitable for the article appart from the whole original research debate. For instance, the part I added about the explanation that was given in one of the VOY episodes about why the Borg are not able to respond to every attack quickly. Hoping for a quick reply (and hoping for a good solution to this issue), greetings, RagingR2 01:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Articles may not contain any previously unpublished arguments, concepts, data, ideas, statements, or theories.
Find someplace where this has been published. Otherwise it's the classic definition of Original Research. CovenantD 01:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
You know, I just typed a whole story about why I think not every part of the section you deleted qualifies as original research, and all you can respond with is repeating the definition of original research again. I... don't really what to type now. Maybe I need to repeat what I said: that section was merely stating facts from the episodes. It was not a "theory" that was previously unpublished, they are just hard, solid facts, that everyone who watched the episodes could have seen. That is NOT original research, those are just FACTS. And, do me a favour, come with a reply a LITTLE more specific next time. Otherwise this is just an edit war in disguise. Typing 1-line replies is NOT a decent discussion. RagingR2 01:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
And oh, by the way, I'm sorry if you feel your talk page is not the place for me to start a discussion about this issue. I don't really care where we have the discussion, as long as there is place for discussion. There are too many people around here just reverting other people's additions, supplying a short explanation (if any) and then running off to never be heard of again. So sorry if I used your talk page (after all YOU were the one who made the edit) but I just wanted to make sure I got a response from you at all, after all you are likely to see a change in your own talk page more quickly than a change in the discussion page of just another one of the many pages you edited. Greetings, RagingR2 01:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Here is the relevant section of the policy page - What is excluded? An edit counts as original research if it proposes ideas or arguments. That is, if it does any of the following:

  1. It introduces a theory or method of solution;
  2. It introduces original ideas;
  3. It defines new terms;
  4. It provides or presumes new definitions of pre-existing terms;
  5. It introduces an argument, without citing a reputable source for that argument, that purports to refute or support another idea, theory, argument, or position;
  6. It introduces an analysis or synthesis of established facts, ideas, opinions, or arguments in a way that builds a particular case favored by the editor, without attributing that analysis or synthesis to a reputable source;
  7. It introduces or uses neologisms, without attributing the neologism to a reputable source.

The fact that we exclude something does not necessarily mean the material is bad — it simply means that Wikipedia is not the proper venue for it. We would have to turn away even Pulitzer-level journalism and Nobel-level science if its authors tried to publish it first on Wikipedia. If you have an idea that you think should become part of the corpus of knowledge that is Wikipedia, the best approach is to arrange to have your results published in a peer-reviewed journal or reputable news outlet, and then document your work in an appropriately non-partisan manner."

Look closely at #5. That is exactly what you are trying to retain. Again, all that is needed to make this section acceptable is to find a published source for this that meets reliable source criteria. CovenantD 01:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

As an outsider who has never even looked at this article before, I feel I should chime in on original research. RagingR2, while you may have linked to good sources for examples, the conclusion is still yours, which is why it is invalid for Wikipedia. I am sure if you dig, you can find someone from a reputable source with the same theory. Remember, both of you have the best interest of the article at heat, even if you currently disagree. If you remain civil through this disagreement, you may find you are in agreement on other issues. It's happened with me. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 02:55, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I get your point. I really am not trying to dump my own original theories here. However, have any of you both seen the Episode(s) Scorpion Part 1 & 2 from ST:VOY? The conclusion which you suppose is mine (well actually not just mine, since I didn't write the entire section in dispute here, but oh well), is actually pretty much literally in those episodes. Chakotay and B'Elana literally say something like "The Borg can't understand what they can't assimilate, which is why they couldn't assimilate species 8472, because they have such an advanced immune system." I could find the exact quote if you wish, but anyway, I just thought this was valuable information, added to the overall general assumption that's in the "Overview" section of the article: about the Borg being able to respond to any attack quickly. And that isn't my writing; but maybe that should be regarded as an original research conclusion that isn't backup up by any sources. Maybe we could agree on just adding those quotes from the Scorpion 1 & 2 to the Trivia section or something like that? You know, without any added conclusions or other user-made additions; just the quotes as cold hard facts. If the overall statement that the Borg is generally able to addapt to attacks quickly is allowed to be in the article because this is stated in several episodes of the series/films (and is thus not original research), than in my opinion, so is the sidenote to this general conclusion as it is stated in the Scorpion episodes. The only difference is the number of episodes it is featured in, but it's both valuable information about the Borg that does deserve a place in the article. And oh well, maybe the fact that the Borg can't always quickly addapt to an attack isn't in very many episodes, so maybe it isn't really *that* important to the overal general picture of the Borg throughout the whole franchise... that's why I am proposing to add it to the Trivia section or something like that, somewhere towards the end of the article.
(Oh and guys, you both thanks for replying by the way, I'm very glad we can have decent talk about this.)
Greetings RagingR2 10:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
What you propose sounds like a good compromise (at least until somebody actually does publish an analysis). The Borg have been portrayed many different ways depending on the whims of the writer - no dispute about that. It was always about the Original Research aspect. CovenantD 16:05, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I understand. It was never my intention to publish anything that's a subjective personal analysis. Well, okay, seems like we could solve this. Let's see. Now that I look at the rest of the article, doesn't this info belong to the (already existing) section about Assimilation? We could add a few sentences to the end of that section, maybe something like this:
"Asimilation is the main way for The Borg to gain information about a "new species", i.e. a species of which no individuals have been previously assimilated by The Borg. The Borg are less skilled in "investigating"; gaining information about species before they are assimilated (source: Episodes "Scorpion Part 1 & 2" from ST:VOY). Moreover, because of the way the assimilation works, species with an extremely advanced immune system such as Species 8472 are able to withstand assimilation; their immune system destroys the nanobots before they can do anything."
Tell me what you think. :) Greetings, RagingR2 16:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd lose the quotation marks and italics. The reference needs cleaning up, but that's easier done in place. I'd change the last sentence to something like this -

Because assimilation depends on nanoprobes, species with an extremely advanced immune system such as Species 8472 are able to withstand assimilation.

CovenantD 17:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, sounds good. Well, I'll add this to the article then. I just noticed there's a separate article for the "Assimilation" too. I'll check if I can add this new info to that article too in some way or another. Greetings, RagingR2 23:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the Borg - the various theories

This has been tagged for a while now. Unless citations are provided soon, I'm going to start deleting the more outrageous bits of uncited Original research. CovenantD 19:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Please do. --OuroborosCobra 13:32, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Don't even hesitate. This article needs some heavy and merciless pruning [b]<-- RESISTANCE IS FUTILE[/b]. Chris Cunningham 14:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
So I got bored of staring at such abject nonsense. I've removed most of it. With any luck I can wreak as much destruction elsewhere in the article. Chris Cunningham 14:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Good luck, this article is so filled with personal opinions and unverifiable "facts" ("the Borg harbor no ill will to anyone" or "..the two-part episode "The Best of Both Worlds", widely considered among Star Trek’s best episodes." and yes, "Given the high technical sophistication of the Borg and her apparent destruction on numerous occasions, the Borg Queen may be some sort of unique multidimensional creature who can be in many places and times at once and/or is multiply-redundant ".) that your task seems almost impossible Chris.

@#@#@#

This whole part needs to remove, it a joke. Who cares what William Shatner thinks!

"William Shatner and Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens postulated a different base of operations for the Borg. They had the Borg "homeworld" as a planet totally converted into circuitry over millennia. The Borg Planet itself is the Queen/Hive Mind Center and it is lonely, and looking for another mind similar to itself. They also explain Borg "inconsistencies" as colonies out of direct contact with the Borg Planet, but still answering to the Hive Mind. The Borg home planet is eventually destroyed by Kirk.

No, it doesn't. It's semi-canonical. Also, I believe in one of the Dark Mirror books that Shatner wrote also mentions of the easy defeat of the Borg by the Human/Vulcan alliance in the mirror universe not too soon after first contact. --The Manator E 22:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The books are non-canon, and that last bit has specifically been contradicted - the Mirror Universe didn't establish a Human/Vulcan alliance at First Contact, In a Mirror, Darkly (Enterprise episode) showed us that the Humans stormed the Vulcan ship, and subjagated them. --Mnemeson 22:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


I thought that the people behind the writting of star trek already resolved this,

V'Ger created the Borg end of discussion. Star Trek Legacy and the books already explained the borg's origin. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DBZ Bane (talk • contribs) 09:04, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

NO where else to put this: Years ago I wrote that the "Borg Queen" was in invention for the movie, a nemesis for Picard and a "love interest" for Data. A WIKINAZI deleted that. The DVD commentary by the writers Braga and Berman clearly state in their own voices exactly that. The Borg "Queen" violates the collective nature of the Borg and should be ignored. The "Royal Protocol" comes closest to reconcile the difference, since as I stated years ago, ANY Borg would be "leader" in an emergency. All Borg are at once, "leader" and "drone" to suit the circumstance. That idea plays directly into the "horror" of assimilation and loss of free will. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.91.104 (talk) 17:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

The above paragraph is correct. I watched an interview with Jerri Ryan and she said she was told to watch all the borg episodes before playing 7 of 9, to better understand the race, and to ignore the Borg Queen. Ms.Ryan stated (on camera) that she was told by the producers to ignore the Borg Queen, as it was an 'anomaly' (her words) and was to be ignored (sounds like the Borg Queen is non-canon). On a side note, there is a ton of info on DVD extras that should be included in the wikipedia articels; I don't have time to watch DVD extras but I'd love to read the text of them here on Wikipedia. Since DVDs are published sources, the info would not be original research. The Borg Queen is of course ignored by the staff writers on Star Trek, as if she had never existed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.93.100 (talk) 01:02, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I was just looking at this article to verify whether or not it was wikipedia where I found this... Maybe it was since it appears http://sajun.org/index.php/Borg which is almost certainly mirrored from this article sometime in the past:

Though not in formal continuity a "Speculation" story in the recent short story anthology Strange New Worlds VI offered a theory of their creation. It stated that the borg came about on a world suffering a devastating plague. One of the victims was the female grandchild of the planets ruler and he forced the scientists treating the plague to try a new treatment on her. Nanotech was introduced into her body which eliminated the virus and restored her. Unfortunately the nanotech was programed not to make her as was but to make her perfect. Since she was naturally imperfect they changed her body and brain augmenting with technology and creating the first borg queen. Naturally the ones who changed her were put to death by her Grandfather, and he tried to kill her with gas. Her body adapted to this removing the need to breathe and allowing her to introduce her nanobots into the wall of the room holding her, melting it and allowing her to escape. Fighting her guards she accidentally put the nanotech into one of them creating a link and changing him. And so the first borg were born. Assimilating their homeworld the borg went to the stars and the rest is history...

Too much speculation? Non-canon? Darkpoet (talk) 16:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removing the episode listings

They take up tons of space and don't seem to be adding a lot to the article. Any objections? Chris Cunningham 15:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

They are available at the first External link, so I agree that they can be removed here. CovenantD 20:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. This is really beginning to look promising. Chris Cunningham 08:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origins of the name "Borg"

Under the headline overview it says that the name "Borg" is a short version of cybernetic organism. I would just like to know if this is a fact or if this is an opinion about the origin of the name. I thought that the word Borg was a "name" of the "species" itself.


--While never directly stated, the name "Borg" is simply a short version of "Cyborg" which in effect, is a short version of "Cybernetic Organism." The Borg do not have a species, nor have they created one. One way to think of it, is another nationality. Americans refer to themselves as Americans, but that is not their Race. It is simply easier than saying "Chinese, Japanaese, Native American, British, Canadian, etc...Human". So, rather than say a bunch of species names, they simply call themselves the borg. It's just a bunch of species that only have the fact that their thoughts are given to them, and cybernetic additions in common. Kasha4890 01:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I must disagree. In the very first episode the Borg announce themselves with "We are the Borg." It is unlikely they would choose a name for themselves that is a short form of a human word, even one that would be appropriate 74.14.102.216 (talk) 03:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC) Gamma

[edit] No references section

Why does this article have no references section? If nobody responds within the next day or so I will assume it's ok to add one. (And, yes, I do have a reference to put in it.) Sfaiku 09:06, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

You can add it now if you want; you don't need permission make constructive edits to articles. JDtalk 11:39, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Communism

Isn't there some argument that the Borg are a satire on ideas of Communism - they first appear during the Cold War Wikiman, 19:14 , 27 January 2007

They are nothing like communists. The creators have stated that they are about technology gone awry, a fear that people had in the 1980s with such events as robots replacing workers in different industries, Chernobyl, etc. --OuroborosCobra 20:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Seeing as they weren't introduced until after the fall of the Berlin Wall anyway, the argument is plainly specious. Chris Cunningham 09:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
The Borg is one collective being. In their collective state, they're one organism. The ships and drones are extensions of that organism. DBZ Bane 09:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
"They are nothing like communists"? The Borg do have many striking similarities to Communism and Fascism depending on whether they are hive (Communist) or rogue (Fascist). I took a very detailed course on Communism (and another on Fascism) and how it affected the individuals under it and I was astonished by the amazing number of similarities between the Borg and Communism and Fascism. Especially when one looks at the words the Borg use. So many of them can be interpreted in Communist and Fascist terms. On a purely symbolic level the hive Borg especially scream Communist in many areas, likewise the rogue Borg are easily representations of racist, genocidal Nazi Germany. And just because the Borg were created after the Cold War ended doesn't mean they can't serve as a allegory for the two ideologies. In fact the Borg are wonderful personifications of them, regardless of what the creators of the Borg intended them to be. Of course one can also read them as embodiments of cultural imperialism, corporations, etc. but I like the Fascist/Communist interpretation best.Ubiquitous101 03:38, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd say they were clearly communist early on, as they evolved and had a "queen" this would be more in line with fascism..

You goddamn ignorant kids. You have no idea what Communism is. Borgs are not fascist, communists or anything alike.-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 01:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Not that I think that the Borg were alluding to either, but by definition, the Borg are communist. They all work collectively and for a common cause, and the wealth (information, in their case) is distributed evenly. For fascist, not so much; fascism requires thinking minds to be manipulated, which the Borg lack. BlueCanary9999 03:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)BlueCanary9999

Borg aren't a satire of communism. Borg are a utilitarian collective organism, everything they do is for the purpose of reaching technological perfection. Equality, conquest, the lack of culture, these are all things that Borg seem to do in order to clear the way for the sole purpose of achieving technological perfection. Communists have no such desires. We must understand that communism was an ideology sprung from harsh living conditions, starvation, in other words very limited resources. This origin of communism shapes its objectives, survival for all (not for any utilitarian purpose), and equality (also not for any utilitarian purpose). If communists were anything like Borg they would have ignored equality and culture because these are obstacles in the accumulation of technology (perfection). It doesn't matter how many courses you take in communism or fascism (Ubiquitous), the ability to draw analogies comes from knowledge+creativity, not just knowledge. And by the way, some people major in political science, so I would put that course back in my pocket if I were you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.157.12 (talk) 02:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Earlier Encounters With The Borg

The second paragraph of the history section... am I the only one who thinks this is totally wrong? From what I understood of Regeneration, the ship that was found was the wreckage of the Borg Sphere destroyed over Earth in Star Trek: First Contact. The First Contact page states this in the trivia section.

And as for the subspace thing... the Borg have transwarp portals. Note that Voyager was able to travel back to the alpha quadrant much quicker than they could actually send a subspace radio transmission.

mattbuck 20:20, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I reverted to an earlier version. It seems that User:CaptainDigness added the misinformation. Gdo01 20:21, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
User:CaptainDigness reverted it, I just reverted it back... goddamn him. mattbuck 18:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
User:CaptainDigness keeps on insisting the Borg are from the past but the production report clearly states that these are the Borg who survived from First Contact. Gdo01 19:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply from User:CaptainDigness

This is Captain Digness speaking.

The reason I have kept on editing your work should be rather apparent. If you say these borg came from the future why is their technology limited i.e. They are weaker than a pre-Federation starship. What is more is that I personally spent hours researching this subject before I made such claims. Do the research; all the evidence supports my claims. Check for yourself.

Please read the policy on original research. We aren't here to apply our own research to articles. We're here to report on research that has already been done by reliable sources. Your claims may be correct, but you need to provide a source that agrees with them. --Onorem 18:23, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Alright I too agree. I will do research and bring it to you personally the results and I realize that I was right about the subspace factor and the Borg traveling pre-trans warp due to the fact that they would no doubt have used to evade the Enterprise rather than being destroyed. The fact that they did not suggests they did not have those capabilities at the time. In fact they went the other direction than where the subspace sorridor was located. If you look this up you will see that I am correct. However if you need proof I will bring it to you also by the end of this week. And I request of you to defend against my statement that if the Borg technology is more primitive than that of first contact how are they from first contact. Unless you can answer this with substantial proof I will continue my editing until someone or something puts an end to this.

Any edits you make that constitute Original Research or uncited claims will be removed. CovenantD 18:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

As will yours! CaptainDigness

You do see the production report link above. Here it is again. The official Star Trek site says these are the Borg from First Contact. Gdo01 05:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
This is captain DBZ Bane 09:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC) speaking.

The Borg only learn by assimulation, thats why species 8745 (or whatever that number is) did so much damage to them in star trek voyager in the episode title scorpion, this was all explained then. Maybe they couldn't assimulate anyone in the future and V'Ger brought them here. DBZ Bane 09:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Noooo.... V'Ger didn't happen for another 200 years. mattbuck 09:20, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
V'Ger had the ability to travel to different planes of existance, it can probably travel through time with easy. DBZ Bane 09:27, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other Species

Why is it that no other major power has been threatened by the borg? The only encounter that the Romulans seemed to have with the Borg is mentioned in The Neutral Zone and then, only outposts were destroyed. The Federation seems to be the only entity that is outright attacked by the borg. The same goes for the Dominion. The Dominion is such a huge territory, I find it hard to believe that the Borg have no interest in it. The technological level of the Dominion is not that much greater than the Federation either, if at all. Again, I think it is unlikely that the Borg would have no interest in the Dominion. Rajrajmarley 21:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

This isn't a forum. Only stuff about improving this article should be here. Gdo01 21:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
It makes for a better plot if the attacks happen to the federation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DBZ Bane (talk • contribs) 09:30, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

look in Borg in games i know for in Armada the borg go after the Dominion for tech. and they trun on the Romulans for omega. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.31.15 (talk) 03:24, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Voyager features other species assimilated by the Borg, keep this for discussion of the article itself Alastairward (talk) 15:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] HR Giger?

Is it just me, or does the interior of the Borg ships look an aweful lot like the works of HR Giger? I'm just curious if there is any basis in his works; either official or otherwise. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.191.17.168 (talk) 02:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Borg Children on Voyager

I am not knowledgeable enough to write it myself, but someone should maybe include the Borg Children like Mezoti and so on in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.237.52.56 (talk) 06:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Borg as Cybernetic vampirs.

I'm not trekkie but I've been reading this entry and what strikes me is this. No one notes the likeness between the Borg and Vampiers. Like vampiers the Borg don't simply kill their enemies, they take them over, adding to their strength. This stealing of people, technologies or 'powers' is a very big advantage to simply destroying them and triggers a very powerfull response.

This trick is often used in games. One opponent can steal your guns. And as a response the player goes after the thief first, all the others can wait. Usually the thief leads you into big trouble.

Amrypma 13:32, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, the Borg weren't originally supposed to be that way. In Q Who, they were only interested in the Enterprise, and not its crew. In The Best of Both Worlds, Picard was assimilated by the Borg in order for them to have a representative when they conqured the federation, as well as to make abosolutely certain that they had adapted to all Starfleet technology. Note that he was the ONLY one assimilated, and that the crew was quite surprised that the Borg would care about assimilating an individual being into their culture. By First Contact and Voyager, what had once been a plot twist had now become a cliche. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.190.6 (talk) 01:49, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. In "Q-Who", the Borg were introduced as a completely alien, unstoppable force to be dreaded. A new level of enemy for the complacent Federation. But by Voyager, they had become the "knuckleheaded zombies" of Trek, a laughable shadow of their original intent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.203.251.157 (talk) 05:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Borg Maxims

When I was on this article recently, there was a section entitled Borg Maxims and it included famous Borg speeches. I can't find it now. Is there a reason it was removed? I thought it was a very interesting section. Sir Akroy 14:29, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I deleted it. First, it contained no citations for what makes the various iterations "famous." The most significant and well-known part of their whole bit -- "resistance is futile" -- is already covered in the intro. Yes, you may think it's interesting, but WP:ILIKEIT is not a rationale for keeping something in the article. Add a citation establishing how each of those different versions of essentially the same bit is notable -- and/or how their progression/changes are significant -- and I'd be fine with it returning. --EEMeltonIV 19:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I apologise if this has been mentioned already. The explanation for the Queen's ability to exist in multiple places is simple. The female body is merely a hardware body for the collective's software mind. The body itself is probably cloned/built. Perhaps there's a few queen bodies on every borg ship and they just activate one when they need to. Neil R, 5th June 2006.

[edit] The return

This has probably already been covered, but just in case, Shatner wrote in his novel The Return that the Borg programmed V'ger, as there are other book plots mentioned in this article should that not be mentioned also? I'm unclear as to the canon-non-canon boundaries so best to leave it for someone who knows (unless it is in there and I'm just blind) SGGH speak! 20:45, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Emblem

At memory alpha, it shows a Borg emblem. Since when do the Borg have an emblem?

Maybe you should go to Memory Alpha, and find out. Specifically where it has already been discussed. --OuroborosCobra 23:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Endgame

In the Voyager finale, the borg Queen, unicomplex, and transwarp network were destroyed and a "neurolytic pathogen" spread throughout the collective. Were the Borg destroyed, or temporarily defeated?


they purposefully left it vauge. I don't know why, maybe a future series/movie? swat671 (talk) 03:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wording

Shouldn't the first sentence read The Borg are a race of cyborgs in the fictional Star Trek universe, first introduced in the Star Trek: The Next Generation TV series instead of The Borg are a fictional race of cyborgs in the Star Trek universe, first introduced in the Star Trek: The Next Generation TV series? As it stands, does it not read that the Borg are fictional within Star Trek? 128.253.228.176 13:03, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Yep. I've changed it per your recommendation. Next time, be bold and edit it yourself! --Dan East 13:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Strogg

This question has most likely be addressed multiple times but I wonder if the Strogg from the Quake series were inspired or even directly designed from these Borg creatures. I've not watched much Star Trek in my life, and I haven't played alot of Quake either, and I even though I see some big differences between the two, I look into their histories, appearances, motives etc., they're very similar. Could be a coincidence but since I've noticed alot of sci-fi material is directly tributed to, or inspired by the Star Trek series, I can't help but wondering if that's where the entire concept of the Strogg come from. And for the record I have no intention of modifying the article, but I'm tossing out the possibility of the connection, and where there's a possibility of connection, there's a possibility of sources. ~ Saibot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.216.9 (talk) 14:52, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On Endgame

There are two reasons that the Pathogen would be rendered essentially not applicable. One, the temporal stuff. Think about it. Admirl Janeway introduces the pathogen, allowing Voyager to get home. Because Voyager gets home, the timeline is altered, and the Admirl Janeway who introduced the pathogen would no longer exsist, therefore the Pathogen would not have been introduced. Confusing, isn't it? Janeway herself tells Kim to not even try when dealing with Temporal Mechanics. Second, think about it in a cenimatic point of view. Had the Pathogen completely destroyed the collective, it would have effectivally wiped the most deadly and most versitile adversary off the face of Star Trek, meaning that they could not be used again. That would just make no scense to the producers. So because the Borg survive due to cenematic stuff, now we deal with the transwarp hub. The Borg still have 5 left, and they could build another, because they originally had to build them. On the unicomplex, however, we see that the think is HUGE!!! They can probably rebuild it, but it would take a lot of time and resources. Also, on the first subject, if the Borg were completely, it would conflict with probably all of the Computer games involving the Borg. We know from Armada that a main Borg complex was destroyed by a de-stabilistation of an Omega Particle. We cannot place that event before or after Endgame, but if Omega destroyed it, the the Pathogen couldn't of. Also, on the Box of Armada 2, there are 2 Intrepid Class ships. That means that at least Intrepid and Voyager, the first two Interpid class ships, were produced at that time. Mabye even Voyager had gotten home by then, meaning that Endgame would have had to happened. And in Starfleet Command 3, Picard states that Voyager has gotten home, but the Borg still show up. Because these games deals with the Borg, I think its safe to say that the Pathogen did not completely eliminate the Borg and that the Borg would have gotten back up on their feet after the destruction of Unimatrix one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.166.253 (talk) 03:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

While I tend to agree that the Borg have not been wiped out, one must remember that games are non-canon, and often directly conflict with canon. --OuroborosCobra 04:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I understand that some people want to believe in CANON so much that they want it to be real, in life. Never forget that all TREK is fiction, an accepted lie, and is NOT REAL. Let the people make up their own minds! WIKINAZIS be damned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.91.104 (talk) 17:18, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the utterly useless post and insult. Guess what, you can still choose to believe whatever you want REGARDLESS of what is written in the Wikipedia article. We haven't implanted you with the mind control chip that forces your devotion to WP and forces you to edit 6 hours a day. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 18:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vs Cybermen

I think this section should be removed. There is no connection noted between Doctor Who and the Cybermen in the article and the original Borg concept was for an insect race (hence the Queen introduced later) The budget allowed only for "robot looking things" and allegedly there were costumes left over from the production of the film Dune that could be used. The whole thing reads like fannish original research and so I'll take criticism of its removal quite happily here in the talk section Alastairward (talk) 10:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Borg as a cultural allusion

Another section that seems unnecessary, especially given that only one sentence of the whole thing refers to any cultural allusion. I suggest removal Alastairward (talk) 15:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. But the one line that does note an allusion is good. We oughta keep that somewhere. BlueCanary9999 (talk) 22:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
The article takes an almost in-universe style (possibly deserving a tagging for that) so we're not left with anywhere in particular to drop the reference. Really there should be a section on the creation of the characters, it would go well in there Alastairward (talk) 14:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)