Talk:Bombing of Wieluń

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Hmmm - don't you count half a polish division as a military target ?

Which one, dear anon? Halibutt 08:05, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)
Parts of a polish infantry division, possibly the 28th, and a cavalry brigade. Located around wielun with parts inside. Are there any valid sources for bombing the hospital first ? Sound like BS because it was politics to bomb strictly military targets during the first years (nobody wanted to start bombing of civilian targets in fear of revenge from the other side). Another Info: The first attacks in the morning have been directed at targets around the bridges to prevent their destruction. Attacks against outer parts of the city startet at about 13:00 to 13:30, first Stukas, later maybe Do 17 or He 111 (Stukas detected lots of soldiers and they called for support) -- Denniss 10:53, 2005 Feb 6 (UTC)
Nope, there was no Polish infnatry in Wielun. The military units left Wielun and went outside few days earlier. As for your refering that it was "bomb strictly military targets", well, - you used words BS, it nicely suit to that sentence. Luftwaffe was bombing hospitals, schools and strafing civilians on roads in September 1939. The civil rules were only for west. Szopen 10:18, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
As for stukas etc, this contradicts directly with reports of those witnesses, who survived the raid.
BTW, Wielun is not worse Luftwaffe atroctiy in Poland in 1939. Search for seomthing about Frampol, for exampleSzopen 10:21, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Check the article linked in external links section, it gives a pretty good overview of the destruction of the town. Sadly it's in Polish and the only German-language monography was published in late 1970's, but I guess you might find the pics interesting (among them the picture of the hospital before and after the air raid). Also, bombing of strictly civilian targets uring the Polish Defensive War was a rule rather than exception, as most of the Polish towns and cities were terror bombed to a lesser or greater degree.
As to half a division in Wieluń - it is a complete nonsense. The defensive line was at the Warta and Widawka rivers, some 30 kilometres east of the town. The only military targets in the town were a police station, a border guards toll post and the train station - all of them being civillian facilities militarized (but not mobilized) after the outbreak of war. Also, if we count policemen as military, then any town in the world would be a military target... Halibutt 10:57, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move

I think we should move this page from Bombing of Wielun in World War II to Bombing of Wieluń in World War II.

Done. Halibutt 10:49, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] This articles neutrality is under dispute.

Wikipedia seems to be one of the sites having a strong Anti-German Bias. Fact's are that the Germans had good reasons to see Wielun a valid military target. http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/1939/sep/september_1939.htm Look for Wielun on first of September, especially the "Luftlage". May I quote:

"...Midday the first air reconaissance reports arrive at the HQ. Enemy cavalry formation at Wielun on the left flank of XVI.A.K. 12:50 30 Ju-87B of I./St.G.2 start at Nieder-Ellguth to attack the enemy troop-transports. First the group attacks a polish cavalry column at Wielun. The Stukas reorganise again and attack a second time. The Stabskette sees a house on the north part of Wielun that is obviously used as a HQ and attacks. After the attack of the group I./St.G.77 starts its attack...."

The German claims that there were any Polish military units in or around Wieluń have been proved wrong by several historians, including Tadeusz Olejnik, the only historian so far to write a monography of the bombing of Wieluń.
As to the "cavalry brigade" that was supposedly stationed in Wieluń - it is strange that the German airmen saw it (there are several accounts), yet they had not noticed any anti-air artillery, with which every cavalry brigade was equipped. The reason is that the Kresowa Cavalry Brigade entered the area on September 3rd, 1939, that is 2 days after the air raid. The other cavalry brigade, the Wołyńska CavBde, was tied down near Kłobuck, some 50 kilometres away, and during the day of September 1st fought in the battle of Mokra. So, in other words, there might've been no Polish cavalry in Wieluń at that time. Peasants and their horses perhaps, but not cavalry.
Also, I doubt listing German WWII attrocities is anti-German and listing facts is a bias. As to the validity of German reports - try to find some information there on the bombing of residential areas of Warsaw that happened on the same day. Or any other proof that the German Luftwaffe attacked anything apart from military targets... On paper everything looked all right... Halibutt 11:10, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
I have added a description of the two opposed viewpoints of the debate, and two links (in German) outlining these positions. Tobias R 12:30, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
To be sincere I don't really understand what's the fuzz all about. There were no strategic bombings during the war of 1939 yet, so the German guy quoted in the text simply cannot be wrong when he says that the attack was tactical in intent and thus could not be compared to Strategic bombing attacks such as on Coventry. Nobody says that it was strategic bombardment and I really see no reason to explain what seems to be obvious (especially that the planes to destroy Wieluń were good ol' Stukas, which are tactical bombers and not strategic bombers. On the other hand, from the previous dispute it seemed to me that the conflict is not between strategic and tactical but between tactical and terror.
The term tactical bombing denotes a bombing planned to destroy a specific, tactically important target. Which was not a case of Wieluń, as basically all town was destroyed and - it had no tactical value for either side. The Germans did not want to go through it, the Poles did not defend it. On the other hand, a civillian town was destroyed and it seems that the term terror bombing is the best here as there were apparently no other reasons to destroy it but to wreck havoc on the civillian population - just like in hundreds of similar actions on that day. Does any of the German articles linked there explain that? Halibutt 02:52, 12 November 2005 (UTC)