Talk:Blue Tail Fly

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[edit] Rating

I'm going to rate this as "start". It could use some expansion and scholarly referrences. Pustelnik 21:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] meaning

I would venture a guess on what "Jimmy crack corn" means. "Jim" as in Jim Crow law, as in a popular name for poor rural black in the 19th century. Corn as in white man, as in "white". "Crack" as in kill. Stbalbach 22:59, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

afaik, "Jim Crow Laws" didn't come about until after the Civil War, and the song is from the 1840's, so I doubt there would be any overt connection... Codex Sinaiticus 15:06, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

"Jim Crow" was a popular name for poor rural blacks in the 19th century, it didnt originate with the "Jim Crow law", other way around.Stbalbach 15:48, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

My speculation is that it alluded to both Jump Jim Crow and Old Corn Meal, possibly with a wordplay on one or more of the other interpretations. dsws 23:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

My speculation is that this is the story of a murder. The slave who has the task to "... follow after with a hickory broom. Pass the bottle when he gets dry and brush away the blue-tail fly." keeps his master feeling a bit loose with the booze, then flicks the horse, stinging him with the hickory broom. This results in:

"The horse he run, he jump, he pitch. He throws my master in a ditch. He died and the jury wondered why. The verdict was the blue-tail fly."

No evidence of the wrong doing, so the murder goes undiscovered and unpunished. I never noticed this as a kid singing the song but it now seems obvious. EverettH 00:38, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

An alternate explanation from The Straight Dope: [1]--BAW 00:41, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

The story I remember hearing was that the lyrics were originally "Gimme cracked corn", meaning that he didn't care about the bad food because he had freedom. I don't have a cite for this, so I'm mentioning it here. -- Samuel Wantman 05:51, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I've always been told "cracking corn" means snoring. This might have been a bit of bowdlerization, but at least one site back this interpretation up. [2] -- 14:43, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

This is quite obviously, at least to me from my perspective as an African American, the story of a slave who killed his oppressor, and in utter contempt, though feigning grief, blames his just demise on a biting fly. Moreover he gets away with it by playing "dumb" and lives to sing, and in my mind at least, dance on Massa's grave. Hooperxxx 00:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] lyrics?

If the song is that old, it's definitely in the public domain. That being the case, there's really no point to this article unless it includes the lyrics (cf. Yankee Doodle, etc.). I was going to do so myself, but got bogged down trying to find the best variant to include — the one with the best mix of brevity, clarity, and antiquity. Is there somebody out there less obsessive than I? Doops | talk 03:19, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikisource is a good place to find a lasting home for the various versions. Typically encyclopedias are not source documents, it makes sense if its very short, or sections are quoted with annotations. Thus the creation of Wikisource. Stbalbach 03:46, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
True, for great length or multiple versions. But a basic text — brief, clear, and authentic — is necessary so we know what the rest of the article is about. You have to know what something is before you can discuss it. Right now the article is very confusing, as it seems to assume that the reader knows the song. Doops | talk 03:52, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Some of the versions are long. Should we present a version based only on its brevity? I had no trouble finding the sources in external links, it wasnt confusing. A Wikisource banner at the head of the article would be even better and more in line with best practices. Stbalbach 04:04, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, antiquity is more important than brevity. I guess just one stanza would do, just to give the reader a flavor. I added one, using the Emmet example from the links — making a few typographical formatting decisions but not regularizing the spelling. Doops | talk 05:24, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Isn't there a second refrain that goes "Shoo fly, don't bother me" in place of "Jimmy crack corn, and I don't care"...? In fact, when I was about 5-7 years old, I think I knew the name of the song as "Shoo fly, don't bother me"...! Codex Sinaiticus 13:55, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I kind of thought that that was a different song. --BDD 18:10, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
That is an entirely different song. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:46, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Actually, a lot of people learned it as a medley. I think Pete Seeger was one of the sources for this. We certainly sang "Shoo Fly" as a sort of bridge to the song when I was in elementary school. --Dhartung | Talk 21:02, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

The article definitely needs enough of the lyrics to demonstrate the alleged subtext rather than simply asserting it. Cdixon 18:48, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree. There are no copyright issues with adding them. They are all available on one or the other of the mudcat threads linked from the article. If someone else wants to take this on, great, if not I'll try to get to it this weekend. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:30, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
I added enough to discuss the main points of the song, but I don't think more is needed -- not because of copyright issues (which usually apply to lyrics questions) but because of encyclopedic necessity. I do, however, fully support adding multiple full versions to Wikisource and appropriately linking that here. --Dhartung | Talk 05:08, 16 September 2005 (UTC)


The vernacular version seems to have a mix of "the" and "de" There should be no "D" on "And" in the 4th line of the first verse. The first line of 2nd verse has "An'" - that would be more consistent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.39.144.40 (talk • contribs) 25 November 2006.

Actually, what they probably should be is (1) cited and (2) quoted verbatim from the cited source. - Jmabel | Talk 07:55, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I'd go further. The place for full sets of lyrics is Wikisource. Our article should include portions of the lyrics with sourced, critical commentary. — BrianSmithson 08:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should there be a link to "Uncle Tom"?

There is a good discussion there about "tomming". In fact it was that article that made me think of this song and then to look here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.145.60.10 (talk • contribs)

I'm not sure where you are suggesting a link be made, but go ahead and add it if you want. See WP:BOLD. — BrianSmithson 18:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Deliberate negligence"

What's "deliberate negligence"? Surely if you do something deliberately you intend to do it and therefore can't have done it by accident? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.219.155.28 (talk • contribs) 18 May 2006.

http://courtofappeals.mijud.net/Digest/newHTML/12984721.htm: "Wilful negligence manifests an intentional disregard for another's safety. In contrast, wanton conduct is reckless but without intent." - Jmabel | Talk 00:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lincoln

I cut the uncited claim "It was a favorite song of Abraham Lincoln." If true, should be easy to cite: there's hardly a human being in the last 200 years about whom more has been written. - Jmabel | Talk 06:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I imagine there are better references than these, but they show some historical record of a tradition. -- Stbalbach 14:58, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uncited conjecture

Uncited conjecture cut from article: "'Crack corn' might also refer to popping popcorn, presumably frowned upon by masters." - Jmabel | Talk 04:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Phone Commericial

In the phone commerical (sorry, don't know the carrier), a "dropped call" causes a future son-in-law to mistakenly think he's offended Jim.

In the original version, the young man ends his attempt to be a "buddy" with the song, "Jimmy Crack Corn and I don't care". The commerical now edits that song out, for whatever reason. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.113.237.156 (talk) 04:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Here is why the line was taken out:

http://cbs13.com/national/local_story_352232207.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.252.179.25 (talk • contribs) 20 February 2007.

Interesting that they and their complainants take it at face value that "He's grieving his master’s death." They completely miss the subtext that he may have killed his master. - Jmabel | Talk 05:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cingular and Ive's

  • The cingular "trivia" is trivia. We don't do trivia lists at Wikipedia. See WP:TRIVIA and WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE.
  • Ives last song as his last public performance is notable. -- Stbalbach 00:32, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Perhaps it is notable in the relevant Ives article, but certainly not to this one.Tritium6 17:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
This one is notable. Seeger was a notable popularizer of the song, the article mentions Seeger in multiple places and he is closely associated with this song. The fact Ives and Seeger sang it as Ives last song together makes it notable enough for inclusion - it's not just a random fact of any singer, it is part of the bigger picture and adds depth and character to the songs background. -- Stbalbach 23:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Not English"

Someone recently tagged the article as being "not English", a template that, among other things, threatens deletion if the article is not "translated" in two weeks. This is a misuse of this template, as the article is quite clearly written in English. The lyrics of the song, where the template was placed, are also in English, albeit ersatz black vernacular English. The lyrics do need annotation (and probably should be transwikied to Wikisource), but they do not need "translation". I have removed the template. — Brian (talk) 04:41, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

"quite clearly written in English"? arternoon? foiler? debble? De poney? Pray tell, in what dictionary may I find these? Ewlyahoocom 06:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Those are quite clear to me. Arternoon is afternoon, debble is devil, de poney is the pony. Foiler is the only one that isn't immediately obvious, but context shows it to be some sort of menial work on the farm. At any rate, this is a moot argument; the article itself is in English, and there is no need to place it in a category with non-English articles destined for deletion. The fact that you can't decipher the dialect lyrics doesn't change this fact. If you wish for the "Lyrics" section to be expanded, please use the appropriate expansion tag, but please don't misuse a tag alleging the article isn't in English. — Brian (talk) 06:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Foiler is follow, just to clear that up. Say it out loud in a southern accent, and it becomes pretty obvious. As for the issue at hand, Ebonics, which is what I'm judging these lyrics to be, is considered English. It's the same idea as wanting to convert a British poem to American English because the article itself is more American inclined (and therefore uses American English.) That doesn't make much sense.Torca 04:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)