Talk:Blue Ribbon Schools Program

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Assessment: Hello all, and thank you for contributing to this school article. I'm part of the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools/Assessment team, and I'm reviewing this page. I'm currently giving it a grade of Start on the Wikipedia 1.0 Assessment Scale and an importance of Mid on this importance scale. For information on improving this article, please visit the WikiProject Schools Project Page. My reasoning is as follows: Is there an infobox for this? — Calebrw (talk) 01:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I deleted the line about Brumfield Elementary School because there are a number of schools that were named Blue Ribbon Schools for a second time prior to Brumfield Elementary. For example, Chandler High School in Arizona was so honored in '82-'83 and '86-'87. A quick read of the list shows Moreau Catholic in Hayward, California and Castro Valley are at least two others to be named to the list twice prior to Brumfield's second selection in '91-'92.

[edit] ref removal

This reference, [1], #4, was a wikimirror.--killing sparrows ^(chirp!) 03:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

I agree 100% with the criticism. Unfortunately, too many educational ranking systems don't end up by measuring outputs, but by measuring inputs as if they were outputs. Thus ranking systems (not necessarily applicable here) that have included computers per pupil, percentage attending four-year colleges, etc., are not measuring how much the district has improved its students. However, I question the over-reliance on a single source from a rather partisan organization to represent the "other" side of the award, without including any coverage of the issue from reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn 19:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Fear not. I have found several other criticisms of the program, including a very in-depth analysis of its past and present failings by the Brookings Institute and another which points out the practice of raising apparent student achievement by increasing the number of students identified as 'special needs', thus removing them from the statistical base. I will be adding to this section over the next few days. You are free, of course, to cite any independent, reliable and reputable sources that have praised the program. I have yet to find any.--killing sparrows ^(chirp!) 19:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't appreciate the criticism here. It notes that Kirkpatrick does not like the criteria because it does not take into account the socioeconomic status of the students. So what? Why should it? Where is the criticism? That the criteria do not take into account socioeconomic status is just a statement of fact, not an argument against the program. It makes Kirkpatrick seem less than reputable, but then I followed the citation and read a bunch of his articles, and he seems to be pretty reasonable. I also found that his criticism is implicit in the following statement: "Thus a more accurate indication of a good school would be one that adjusts for such factors and identifies those in which students do better than would normally be expected, based on their backgrounds." This statement is now included in the article. I also rewrote it to be more brief. By the way, I teach at a Blue Ribbon School, and learning and thinking are never "inevitable." Redhookesb 18:46, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Selection criteria, statistics, claims, etc.

I have read the selection criteria on the DOE website and it is a little more complex than portrayed here. Public schools are selected by the State's education authority and then submit an application, criteria for selection vary from state to state. Private, DOD and BIA schools are nominated through their respective processes. If someone would like to rewrite this section to be more accurate, that would be great.

Also, the statistics quoted would be more meaningful if the percentage of schools applying vs schools receiving the award could be found. If all that apply are awarded or a small percentage of those applying are awarded, the exclusivity and prestige of the award changes dramatically.

The references for the first paragraph include the following statement, "...It is considered the highest honor a school can achieve." but it is not attributed in the article to any person. Is there any actual source for this statement outside of the reporter writing the article? To state as the second ref does (apparently, there is no way to access the actual article), that this is the highest honor the DOE can bestow, I'll buy that, but the first ref seems to state that 'someone' or some independent entity has decided this.--killing sparrows ^(chirp!) 21:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Praise

What is the difficulty in finding praise? (I guess I will have to try finding it myself.) One place to start looking is in the history of the selection criteria. I have heard that under President Clinton, the standards were not linked to measurable outcomes but rather to a school's plan for improvement. Under President Bush, the standards are linked to measurable outcomes. Many would see that as an improvement. Even Kirkpatrick might agree. He wrote in the article mentioned under "Criticisms" that "This should not be viewed as an objection to a properly evaluated Blue Ribbon program. Public (and nonpublic) schools whose students succeed well beyond what would be expected of them, with due consideration for their socioeconomic status, should be recognized." The phrase "succeed well beyond what is expected" seems to imply some sort of objective, measurable standard. Redhookesb 18:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List?

I would like to know all schools who have recived this award, list please. If not in this article than in its own. ``` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.81.53.142 (talk) 03:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

• The external links at the bottom of the article include two .pdf files listing all of the school's recognized. I have created User:Alansohn/Blue Ribbon Schools 2003-2006, which listed schools recognized in the 2003-2006 period, and is a work in progress that may not accurately point to existing articles for schools that are spelled differently in the source file. Alansohn 03:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)