Talk:Bloody Mary (folklore)

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Contents 1 Do not merge with Mary I of England 2 Bloody Bess? 3 South Pacific lyrics 4 Confusing 5 Question 6 Add Section

[edit] Do not merge with Mary I of England

Just curious why anyone thinks this article should be merged with Mary I of England. While she obviously needs to be mentioned on this page, with an explanation of why she bore the epithet, most of the material here is not about her. -- Smerdis of Tlön 22:54, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This merge is bizzarre. Bloody Mary(folklore) should have it's own page. it's just completely unrelated to Mary I.Lisapollison 04:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bloody Bess?

Is the information on Elizabeth's persecution of Catholics relevant to an article on the the term Bloody Mary? I think it should be cut -- there are plenty of historical figures who executed large numbers of people and are not called "Bloody." Should we provide a list of every tirant who we feel deserves that epithet? Of course not! I say cut Elizabeth. Joel Bastedo 18:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Why not - they were sisters - they followed each other. As you say not all who kill are known as "bloody", but these two were. The article is called 'Bloody Mary'. Mentioning her sister shows that Mary was not unique. But to sugggest that Mary was 'bloody' while Elizabeth was 'good' would be biased. They were both killers. ClemMcGann 18:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

If it's important, then sure, leave it in, but don't rewrite history. It is simply wrong to say that Elizabeth was known as "Bloody Bess." She never was, which is Tarrago's point. He chose the title for the book to shock people, and by shocking them to make them ask: why am I surprised to see Elizabeth's name prefaced by the epithet "Bloody" instead of "Good Queen", when she was just as bloody as "Bloody" Mary? The answer has a lot to do with the Protestant slant to English history, as Tarrago points out. But that doesn't excuse pretending that Elizabeth was called bloody because a historian points out that perhaps she should have been. Joel Bastedo 06:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Like it or not, Elizabeth was known as "Bloody Bess" by those who she persecuted. ClemMcGann 11:11, 15 July 2006 (UTC) And, btw, if you are interested in the Anglican church, see a recent article [1] 'And, by the way, "good Queen Mary" is more widely known as "Bloody Mary".' 11:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

She was referred to "Bloody Bess" by the Catholics? So you say. What's your citation? I don't remember reading that in Tarrago, but perhaps I missed it. More to the point, that isn't by any means Elizabeth's most common or enduring epithet. Both during her reign and in the centuries since, she has been commonly known as Good Queen Bess, the Virgin Queen, and Glorianna. The only place I have encountered her being referred to as "Bloody Bess" is in persuasive essays and historical articles that seek to highlight the unjust and inglorious side of her reign. They use the term for effect, not because it was widely used historically. That said, some Catholics probably did call Bess "bloody," quietly and when no one could hear them. But that's not the same thing as Elizabeth being "known as Bloody Bess" like her half-sister was known as Bloody Mary! I can write an article calling Richard I "Richard the Meanhearted" because it took as much intolerance and meanness as bravery to wage his bloody crusades. But it would be wrong to say that he "became known as" Richard the Meanhearted -- Lionhearted is still his most recognised epithet. Joel Bastedo 14:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

You might not like it, but she was,

• Mary Tudor, North American Review, 1853, Vol 77, p.494[2]
• Tonne, Arthur, 1950 Talks on the sacramentals [3]
• "Elizabeth I Queen of England from 1558, lived from 1533 to 1603. Known to the Irish as “Bloody Bess”." [4]

It was not just Catholics who knew her as Bloody Bess. Free Masons also suffered [5]

While others, including (persumably protestant) Flemish fishermen knew Mary as "Good Queen Mary" [6]

ClemMcGann 16:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, re: Irish Catholics and Flemmish fishermen. It certainly didn't stick, presumably because of the dominance of Protestant Anglicanism under Elizabeth and since. So does the current wording of the article work? Joel Bastedo 16:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, upon reading the sources you provided, I see that only one of them (the Irish website) actually claims that anyone called Elizabeth "Bloody Bess." The North American Review article makes the same point that Tarrago makes: any impartial reader of Tudor history would conclude that Mary's ugly epithet "Bloody" is unwarrented, and that Elizabeth's gentle-sounding appelation, "Good Queen Bess," is unearned. But the reviewer's point is to praise the book he is reviewing for disabusing the "popular mind" of its prejudice against Catholic Mary and in favour of Protestant Elizabeth, a prejudice which has earned them their unfair epithets. Moreover, the reviewer's criticism of the book is that its author goes to far: if readers took the book seriously, he warns, the two objectionable epithets would not be discarded as the should be, but they would be reversed, and people would start talking about "Bloody Bess" and "Good Queen Mary." That criticism only makes sense when the reader knows that Elizabeth is commonly called "Good Queen Bess" and Mary called "Bloody Mary," rather than the reverse! Surely you see that? Anyway, I put a reference to the review in with the Tarrago article, since the two authors are making the same point. Joel Bastedo 16:53, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] South Pacific lyrics

The article says, "A song about her makes U.S. Navy sailors sing, Bloody Mary is the girl I love, her skin is as tender as DiMaggio's glove" -- I remember the lyrics being "tender as a baseball glove", but I don't have the song handy. Is my memory wrong on this one? -Phoenixrod 22:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

It is DiMaggio. Anyway, are you sure that baseball had even been invented in the time period the show took place in?

World War II? Yeah, it's been around since the 19th century.--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing

Looking for information on Bloody Mary the legend, I searched wikipedia. As Mary I has her own article, I say that we completly seperate them. One for the myth, and one for the real person. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.91.155.164 (talk) 04:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

Apparently bloody mary was pushed down a well and died down there. I also heard that if you whatch the ring, the phone will ring and say seven days to go which meant that you only had seven days to show someone that film in, and if you didn't, in seven days time, if your watching the t.v it will turn of itself, and if you weren't it would still do the same thing. Apparently so' a picture of a well will come up, and bloody Mary will come climbing up the well, will climb out of the t.v and will scratch you to death.

                                       Is that true?

[edit] Question

Why doesn't a Wikipedian try this, see if it works, and edit the page accordingly? This is a serious question.

Why don't you try it, then? 66.193.238.1 06:34, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

It would be original research. Once three girls did the bathroom version at my little sisters dance school. They all came out yelling wildly, and one had scratches. I could add that she was later institutionalized, but that'd be a lie. She just was freaked out, and grew up to be a nasty ho-beast. Basejumper 12:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Add Section

Could it be done that a section should be written where we list all the places she is allegedly burried. I know of one in Neshanock Village outside of New Castle, Pennsylvania. If others could add enough other locations it would make for an interesting article. Basejumper 09:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

You'd need to follow WP:RS policy. So real sources, not just what you heard. DreamGuy 00:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)