Talk:Black and Tan
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[edit] Black and Tans in Ireland
There were two sections in the article that seemed to suggest that black and tans are not drank in Ireland. This is incorrect. During the summer months stout drinkers often have a black and tan as an alternative to Guinness. Even tough hitorically the Black and Tans would have been considered in a very bad light, it is by no means offensive to order a black and tan in a pub.
I have never ever heard of a black and tan as a drink and I'm a 34-year-old Irishman, not unaccustomed to the inside of a pub, and neither has anyone I have asked.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.16.8.116 (talk) 00:09, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Also an Irishman in his 30s, resident in Dublin since 1995, pub-goer, beer blogger, and never known or seen anyone drink a Black and Tan, or a half-and-half. I have encountered Smithwick's with a Guinness head, but not since late last century. Vernacula (talk) 14:38, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Bold textBlack and tan seems an interesting drink. That seems hard to make and a show-worthey drink. --Djjackson7 02:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)If it wasn't alchohac, i would have it. To bad it isn't. I think apple juice and gingerale on top would work. I will try it. Mabye I could make an interesting drink stall. It would be good for you with the allousion of beer. It seems like a good idea.Italic textIf it dosen't work, its to bad.
[edit] Etymology
The etymology is back-to-front; black-and-tan was first a dog, then a cocktail, then the RIC reserve. From the OED, under "black":
- 14. a. black and tan (of a kind of terrier dog): Having black hair upon the back, and tan (yellowish brown) hair upon the face, flanks, and legs. Also ellipt. as n.
- 1850 C. M. YONGE Langley School vi. 41 Oscar, the bloodhound, that monster of a black-and-tan dog. 1863 KINGSLEY Water-Bab. vi. 272 Out jumped a little black and tan terrier dog. 1870 D. J. KIRWAN Palace & Hovel (1963) xiii. 118 The dog-fancier may be noticed with..a black and tan under one arm and a spaniel under the other. 1884 Harper's Mag. Aug. 464/1 A jealous little black-and-tan stood by. 1948 C. L. B. HUBBARD Dogs in Britain III. xx. 271 Since 1925 Black-and-Tan Miniature Terriers may exceed the previous weight limit of 7 pounds.
- b. black and tan: a drink composed of porter (or stout) and ale. slang.
- 1889 in BARRÈRE & LELAND Dict. Slang. 1955 G. FREEMAN Liberty Man I. iv. 60 He asked for a pint of black and tan, and had to explain to the waiter what it was. 1958 A. SILLITOE Sat. Night & Sun. Morn. vi. 93 Gin-and-orange? I'll have a black-and-tan.
- c. Black and Tans: popular name for an armed force specially recruited to combat the Sinn-Feiners in 1921, so named from the mixture (black and khaki) of constabulary and military uniforms worn by them. Also attrib. Hence black-and-tannery: the principles or activities of the Black and Tans.
- 1921 Times 28 Jan. 7/5 ‘God Save the King’ and ‘God Bless the Black and Tans’. 1921 LD. BRAYE in Hansard Lords XLIV. 792, I rise to ask His Majesty's Government..whether they will..recall the Black and Tans. 1922 W. B. YEATS Lett. (1954) 680 The Black and Tans flogged young men and then tied them to their lorries by the heels. 1923 Weekly Disp. 4 Mar. 9 ‘How can I,’ concluded Sir John Simon, ‘defend black-and-tannery?’ 1958 Spectator 8 Aug. 183/2 The only way would be a reversion to Black-and-tannery, to forcible coercion and repression.
[edit] Delicious
While the mixture may indeed be delicious, that is an opinion, something that doesn't really belong in an encyclopedia. And thus, I removed it.DannyBoy2k 19:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
It is delicious though. --qp4 00:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
That is your opinion though!
They are delicious and i am pretty good at pourin em now and i like beers--E tac (talk) 10:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Alternate Irish name
Isn't there an alternate Irish name for this drink, to avoid connotation with British counterrevolutionary troops? brain 03:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Response to Alternative Irish Name: Sometimes it is called a Half and Half, but really, a Half and Half is when the two are poured in together at the same time, which is disgusting, or sometimes, people refer to a Guinness and Harp as a Half and Half. Generally though, the name of the drink preceeds the name of the paramilitary organization, and Black and Tan is a perfectly legit way to ask for the drink. Mike Murray 20:54, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Variations
A Snakebite_(beer_cocktail) is not stout and cider, it's lager and cider. I fixed this, as well as fixing the attached snakebite link to point to the page on beer cocktails instead of a page about reptile venom. Coincidentally, said page on beer cocktails also points out that referring to a stout/cider mixture as a snakebite is incorrect. Garyfoster 15:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Black&TanBeer.jpg
Image:Black&TanBeer.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Dubious statement
- Note: the layering is often mistakenly attributed to the fact that Guinness is partly carbonated with the lighter nitrogen gas but this theory is disproved by the fact that Black and Tans were around long before Guinness started putting nitrogen into stout.
This implies that the Black and Tans served before Guinness started serving nitro-keg Guinness in 1961 were layered. Were they? If this statement were true, it would seem to imply that you could make a Black and Tan with stout dispensed with CO2 alone, yet this article acknowledges that the 'draught' (aka nitro-keg) product is required. Also it is wrong to say "partly carbonated" with nitrogen. Dforest (talk) 07:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
