Talk:Black September in Jordan

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Contents 1 Palestinians escaping to Israel during BS? 2 Escalation of tensions between US and USSR 3 massacre !!! 4 Biased or what? 5 Very biased in tone 6 Humus sapiens, are you a Jordanian extreme right-wing? 7 Point of translation?

[edit] Palestinians escaping to Israel during BS?

I´ve seen some old magazines where Palestinians escape from Jordan to Israel during BS, anyone have any # how many escaped and their destiny? RGDS Alexmcfire

[edit] Escalation of tensions between US and USSR

The contents of the section "Escalation of tensions between US and USSR" seem to be original research. No citation of a reputable source is given for what the section claims to be the near unfolding of "World War III". Even if this section is based on facts, its style is very unencyclopedic and needs to be completely rewritten.--128.139.226.36 08:12, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. In addition its content doesn't relate to the rest of the article. Removing it but one phrase, recoverable from either from history or this diff [1]. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 08:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted some edits and added the Soviet/Russian point of view to the events. --Fastboy (talk) 11:36, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] massacre !!!

it is a massacre when people are mass murdered in their own land. those palestinian civilians (refugees) engaged in acts of war against the monarchy, jordanian soldiers, and jordanian civilians. they were part of the PLO's unorganized or unofficial military. so, this was mass kill of soldiers and not mass murder of civilians .... "massacre" is an emotional word and inappropriate to describe a historical event which we only read about in books and which is supposed to be scientific and unbiased.

RESPONSE: Actually a massacre is an "indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of people". How is it that acts of civilians are described as acts of war? Sorry but you should get over the use of "emotional" wording its entirely appropriate in this instance.

[edit] Biased or what?

Wow -- I can't believe this piece is standing without much opposition to its one-sided contents. Just goes to show how U.S.-centric the Wikipedia still is.

The only reason I don't formally demand a NPOV here is because I don't know enough myself about this history. But consider this entry notice that the article is unacceptable as-is. Once english-speaking palestinians learn about it, for instance, I'm sure the article will invariably become more objective. Informative too.

Otherwise this piece skirts being labelled as simply soft-ball anti-palestinian propaganda.

Pazouzou 06:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed - there are clear POV problems, so I added the {{pov}} tag. At present we have an entire article outlining, and explicitly apologising for, the Jordanian position, coupled with the Israeli/american view on the conflict, but nothing explaining the palestinian position. --Irishpunktom\^talk 14:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

leon cohn - my opinion is that if you do not like the view of the conflict, find a new one and annotate it and stop complaining.

Yow... this will take a bit of work. For what it's worth, the article is missing information on:

• Nasser's diplomatic involvement
• Palestinian political claims
• Criticism of the rule of a monarchy in Jordan
• Attempted Syrian intervention
• Jordanian-Israeli diplomatic coordination
• The balance and scale of civilian deaths

All this aside from a general pro-monarchist phrasing and citing on events. POV until these things are fixed. --Carwil 15:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

what is really missing is the fact that Hussein clearly massacred the palestinians without holding back at all, and this is the reason why the terrorism stopped in Jordan... and not in other places. Amoruso 15:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Precisely.

I have no problem with the description of those events as a massacre-analagous to what occurred in Hama during Hafez al-Assad's reign-and I thought the actions that King Hussein and the Hashemite monarchy pursued were absolutely correct, in hindsight.

If anything, those actions have been vindicated by history.

Still, I agree that the Palestinian position-no matter how baseless I personally believe it to be-should be outlined in full.

Ruthfulbarbarity 19:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Very biased in tone

I found this article extremely biased and non-neutral, seemingly written from the perspective of someone with the intention to ideologically defend the Jordanian position and against the Palestinians. It doesn't feel encyclopedia-quality at all. 18:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Humus sapiens, are you a Jordanian extreme right-wing?

These stories about Black September are according to the king Hussein of Jordan only and supoort him as a vectim and hero, no ? it is very sarcastic, because no matter you do, you can't change the history and people always know the facts. I have put the stories according to the majority, and there were TV shows talked about and people know it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.0.83.120 (talk • contribs)

Please avoid making assumptions and personal judgements. "there were TV shows" is not a reliable source. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 10:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

The TV political shows are based on references and many evidences. So tell me, your article is based on what ? Anyway, what is a shock to me that there are many people cry out for the neutrality in this page.

If what you are saying is right, there should not be a problem supporting it with reliable verifiable scholarly sources. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 10:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

There are reliable verifiable scholarly sources books and reports in Arabic . But it is problem to find international reports and references about it, because who care about ? even in the Jordanian history school books they don't say anything about it, they always want to avoid this subject.

See WP:RS#Sources in languages other than English. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 11:15, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Point of translation?

What exactly is the point of the following translation? As far as I can tell, Yasser Arafat's "victory" does not have anything to do with "dignity".

"" Yasser Arafat claimed this as a victory (in Arabic, "karameh" means "dignity") ""

If anything, the translation should be moved to the beginning of the section on the Battle of Karameh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.224.123.145 (talk) 00:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)