Talk:Black Sabbath

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Black Sabbath is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.

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Contents

[edit] Genre?

Shouldnt Hard Rock and Stoner Rock be on there? Theres a definate stoner vibe to most of there songs, and plenty of hard rock on there early albums.

No it shouldn't. They are a heavy metal band. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 18:51, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
There definatly stoner rock. Anyone who's knows what stoner rock is can tell they are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.225.242 (talk) 03:32, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Black Sabbath CREATED heavy metal and always played it. Thats all. 189.26.85.176 (talk) 22:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Revamp started

Black Sabbath should be a FA. So I've begun a revamp of this thing, and it needs major work. There are only a handful of citations, choppy prose throughout, ect ect ect. I've begun with the intro, and I will work section by section, sourcing and rewriting stuff. I have a biography book "Wheels of Confusion", and I have found a source for interview reprints that covers from the mid 80's on ( http://www.black-sabbath.com/interviews/index.html ) but if anyone else has sources, (especially 70's & early 80's interviews) please let me know. Thanks, Skeletor2112 (talk) 09:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


www.Black-Sabbath.com is a collection of other people's work and holds very little original material. You might try www.theinterviewarchives.com for actual first hand interviews of the various members of the group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.139.139.115 (talk) 20:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I ended up using a hardcopy book for most of the cites, along with the AMG bio and a few other sources, but I will check out the interview archives as well - you can't have too many cites! Skeletor2112 (talk) 10:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
You could try forking out some stuff from the H and H tour article. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 12:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BS?

I have never heard anyone refer to them as BS, which is more commonly used as an abbreviation for "Bullshit" than anything else. Ljoneill (talk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.141.199.200 (talk) 10:55, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proto-Doom?

Would Sabbath be called Proto-Doom? Cause they basically created doom metal...

=={667}== (talk) 21:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, they could be called that, but not in this article because, by the very fact that you thought this up and proposed it, it would be orginal research. Jgm (talk) 23:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. =={667}== (talk) 15:30, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of cover songs

Why not someone start a section or a link to a new page with all the Sabbath songs covered by other bands. There are enough of them to fill a page and it would be nice. —Preceding unsignedfugeeaters comment added by 121.120.1.107 (talk) 02:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] discussion moved from article

Hi there Skelletor? Instead of hiding behind an alias, why not let me contribute to your index. Whats wrong with us trying to get our book and website recognised and published on the web where-ever it may be? Our book is the best that is available on the subject, ask the other authors who have Sabbath books out there!!

Come on, get REAL! GIVE US A POSTING, NOT AN EXCUSE!!!!Slackhaddock (talk) 19:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC) (Moved from article - FreplySpang 19:41, 21 April 2008 (UTC))

Uh, its called a screen name. I doubt your name is Slackhaddock... And this is not an "index", its an encyclopedia. Not a place to advertise your book. The reference section of the article is for references that were used to write the article. As stated on your talk page, Wikipedia is not a collection of links. Skeletor2112 (talk) 05:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Use of "detuned"

What exactly does "detuned" mean when discussing guitar playing? The word "detuned" was not found at dictionary.com. It presumably means "out of tune" but the guitars were indeed tuned. Can we change this to "non-standard tuning", or better yet, note the actual tunings that were used? Simishag (talk) 22:57, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Detuned = down tuned. Not out of tune, but tuned to a lower key. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:37, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Awards

I (hastily) made an awards list for Black Sabbath here. I know they have won more than a grammy, and it is still under construction. Would it not be a good idea to briefly discuss the accolades the band has achieved, with some mention of this article? Tenacious D Fan (talk) 17:00, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Justice to Lester Bangs?

While I'm not a big fan of Lester Bangs, I think your quotations from him concerning Sabbath misrepresent his views. What you quote is accurate, but taken out of context. Bangs was a fan of Sabbath, though he was critical of them. You might want to revisit his reviews of the band. They are more nuanced than your article would have us believe.216.48.60.35 (talk) 15:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More on Genre Descriptions

I made some changes to the genre listed on each album.

I have listed each album as Heavy Metal/Hard Rock.

I include Hard Rock, as Tony Iommi states in the Last Supper DVD that he has always considered Sabbath a Hard Rock band, and that "I have no idea where that term (metal) came from!".

Also, there are many Sabbath songs that aren't really metal; for example, "Never Say Die", "Rock 'n Roll Doctor", "Living For Today"; etc.......

Doom metal and Stoner/Sludge Metal are seperate styles that came later, although Sabbath were HIGHLY influential. I would mention this fact and link to it appropriately in the particular article's content.

Also, Black Sabbath is FAR from Gothic Rock ---- gothic rock is stuff like Christian Death, Bauhaus, etc....etc.....


If you disagree, that's fine, but I felt that I had to brings these points up. Electrokinesis (talk) 05:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Removing gothic/doom/sludge and all that other stupidity is great... well done. Adding hard rock is just adding superfluity to a box field where the only rule is "aim for generality". It's a similar situtation when a heavy metal band, like Iron Maiden, does 1 track that has shades of progressive metal to it and next thing you see is editors adding progressive metal to the band's infobox? Or to half the catalog. Superfluity. Black Sabbath are a heavy metal band first and foremost. No sense in cluttering up their infobox with anything else. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 10:27, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

That's fair :-) Electrokinesis (talk) 19:44, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Seventh Star sounds like the Sunset Strip?

I keep reading this description everywhere.

"Seventh Star" does sound different, but how does it sound like the Sunset Strip bands?

Those groups are more glam oriented, like Motley Crue, Ratt, Van Halen - etc, etc, etc........

IMHO, "Seventh Star" sounds more like Black Sabbath than the majority of everything that the band recorded with Tony Martin; especially "The Eternal Idol". That record is way more Sunset Strip!

If anything, perhaps "Seventh Star" is more Whitesnake sounding. After all, Tony Iommi did try to recruit David Coverdale as a singer at one point. They're also British. :-)

I know that Hugh Gilmour said that the record sounded "more American" in the extras on the Black Sabbath Story Volume 2 DVD, but really, Sunset Strip?

May I re-write this part with a different description of the album?

It's all pov. Wikipedia should have all adjectives and comnparisons removed completely. Without a valid ref supporting any opinion no matter how small there shouldn't be any sort of "sounds likes" or "compared to's" or "similar as" anywhere in the article. Or any article. They shouldn't read like editorials. They shouldn't be written like blog styled news articles. And they shouldn't come across as reviews. Just cold, dry boring facts with citations. A good re-write of anything comparing any Black Sabbath release to anyone or any scene, would be to just remove it completely. This article is 84 kb in size. that means it could easily have 30-40 kb of superfluity removed from it. Start with the adjectives and comparisons. That would be a good start. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 01:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] It's "Black Sabbath is" not "Black Sabbath are"

"Black Sabbath" is not plural, and AllMusic supports my assertion. It says: "Black Sabbath has been so influential in the development of heavy metal rock music as to be a defining force in the style."[1] If "Black Sabbath" was plural, then the previous quoted sentence should have read: "Black Sabbath have been so influential in the development of heavy metal rock music as to be a defining force in the style." I have made changes to reflect this. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 19:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey TD Fan, I referred to WP:ENGVAR in my edit summary, but glancing at it now I don't see what I'm referring to, so it might be somewhere else. Anyway, British band names are always treated as plural, see Pink Floyd, Radiohead, Iron Maiden for some examples. American bands names would be singular though. --Bongwarrior (talk) 19:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Okay no problems. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 19:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that the whole singular/plural issue is specifically mentioned anywhere in policy. You were right to point at EngVar, which is a generalised rule that basically states respect the differences. ☯Ferdia O'Brien (T)/(C) 19:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Humorous

Humorous is the correct spelling world-wide, see here, here, here, and here. ☯Ferdia O'Brien (T)/(C) 01:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I think once or twice it got reverted by accident, during a reversion of vandalism. That is the correct spelling :) Bretonbanquet (talk) 01:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh man. Sorry for the reverts. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 21:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
No problem man, honest mistake to make :). ☯Ferdia O'Brien (T)/(C) 00:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rarity of Born Again in the States

Shouldn't it be added in the Born Again article that the album was never officially released in the United States? That's why you have to buy it either on Ebay or at a used cd store (found that out the hard way). 68.218.99.135 (talk) 20:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)