Talk:Black Narcissus

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I moved the content from Black Narcissus (1947 movie) here. There is no page for the plant of the same name, so there's no need to disambiguate (yet). Jihg 11:45, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

If there was, the "1947" would still have been unnecessary. -- Beardo 00:01, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Historical context

I removed this:

Black Narcissus was released only a few months before India achieved independence in August 1947. Film critic David Kehr has pointed out that the final images of the film, as the nuns abandon the Himalayas and process down the mountain, could have been interpreted by British viewers in 1947 as "a last farewell to their fading empire"; he points out that it is not an image of defeat "but of a respectful, rational retreat from something that England never owned and never understood". (ref David Kehr, 'Black Narcissus', The Criterion Collection official website.)

The first problem I have here is that, apart from his involvement in a review of this film for the Criterion Collection, I've no idea who this fellow is. Apart from that, his statement that the film was released very close to Independence day is correct, and his opinion arguable. This brings me to the point: if this is to be restored, the term "points out", which occurs twice in the removed section, should be softened to "he suggests that..." or something similar. It is a fact that the film was made and released close to Independence. It is an opinion that the film is an allegory for the end of empire. It is an opinion that it could have been interpreted as "a respectful, rational retreat from something that England never owned and never understood". --Tony Sidaway 21:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

At the end of the article, it says "Dave Kehr’s film criticism has appeared in many anthologies and publications including The New York Times, Premiere, and Entertainment Weekly. He is also a contributing editor at Film Comment." I personally found the connection to the end of empire illuminating, but I agree that "points out" should be softened to "suggests". Cop 663 (talk) 22:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Whilst I'd personally like to see more evidence on this fellow's credentials, I think we're otherwise in agreement. --Tony Sidaway 23:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

He's a film critic with a lengthy career; see here. Film Comment is a major academic journal. The Criterion website usually has essays by major scholars, so the fact that they chose this guy suggests that he has some notability. Cop 663 (talk) 23:29, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Let's set my misgivings aside. With changes as stipulated above, I think the section is okay. --Tony Sidaway 23:37, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Although you should remember that it was based on a book written in 1939. Although looking at it with the benefit of hindsight it can be said to reference Indian independence I don't think that the author of the book or the film-makers had that at the forefront of their minds. Rumer Godden was well aware of the burgeoning independence movement and generally supported it. Powell and Pressburger would have been even more aware of it. But the story is more just about people that don't fit in and could be applied to many situations -- SteveCrook (talk) 01:00, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Kehr isn't making any claims of intentionality, he's just saying it could have been seen that way by audiences in 1947 given the events of that year. Cop 663 (talk) 01:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

It is very ironic that a film about people that don't fit in does such a horrendously bad job at presenting Indian people and culture. It is as if the filmmakers themselves did not fit in. I doubt that was the intent of the filmmakers, but it does illustrate how people with the best of intentions can misunderstand and misinterpret other cultures. --☑ SamuelWantman 06:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)