User talk:Bjornar

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please enter any question at the bottom of this page for clarity. --Bjornar 17:27, 17 August 2006 (UTC) DPRK


Contents

[edit] Archives

January 2006 - June 2006

actually, a much more informative collection of people's stories was put out in south korea by one such "defector." he points out that the north koreans who run away to china are overwhelmingly food refugees, not political refugees seeking somesort of western liberal freedom. and, many of them (not sure if it is most or not) return to north korean once they manage to earn/get sufficient resources to help their families. he also speaks of how so many of these refugees feel allegiance and loyalty to their country and government, and it is not because they are "brained washed." the engish title of the book is "outsider" and is only in korean, unfortunately.

I think many people would enjoy its translation. --Bjornar 17:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

as for the "aquariums" book, not denying the story, but what is more important is the way in which many non-north koreans seem uninterested in questioning such accounts, but leap at the chance to contest almost all postive stories about north korea. what is underneath all of this are sets/layers of political agendas.

True, and even I am biased although admittedly aware of it. It would please me to have matters fully investigated so that the allegations can be proven untrue, or to uncover things that need to be corrected. (I am sure every country has something that needs to be corrected). However, how one is to go about trying to do this, and under who's authority an investigation is going to be lead, I've no idea. All I know, is this simple principle: For every serious accusation, there should be a serious investigation and proper procedures. --Bjornar 17:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

and it is all too often these agendas that promote so many calls to label north korea with a passion (dare i say hatred) few other countries encounter. as a friend (he was swedish and lived in north korea for many years) once asked me, "why such hatred towards north korea? what have they ever done to the US?" a good question we might all ask ourselves.

How can these claims be investigated when the DPRK won't let anyone inspect the camps or interview the prisoners? The best evidence we have indicates an extensive network of prison camps housing political prisoners but access to North Korea is so limited we don't have as much evidence as I would like. There are however accounts by many prisoner and a few guards at these camps, in addition to satellite imagery, and a little bit of video. Datacharge 01:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I fail to understand why people still hate eachother in these so called "enlightened" times. --Bjornar 17:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

final point, thank you for writing as you do on wikipedia, bjornar. to write anything postive about north korea (or to see them as human being capable of intelligent choices) very often solicits less than friendly responses. Hongkyongnae 02:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

For every ton of sand, is a small grain of gold. Being so far the only one to take this role so serious on wikipedia may seem lonely, but I've many comrades in Pyongyang who know what I do and while some of them may think it's a lost cause and a waste of time, I've discovered that people are neither as bad or as dumb as one could expect. --Bjornar 17:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Replies from Talk:Bjornar Simonsen

You were gone for almost three months! Why did you abandon Wikipedia in that time? I suppose you made another KFA trip to the DPRK? (You don't have to answer either question if you don't want to.)

Hehe. --Bjornar 18:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Here they are, copied/pasted to here:

1. Why can't Korean Central Television lionize KIS and KJI enough? When will North Korea feel that these leaders (and whoever else they've been lionizing) have been lionized enough already? Why can't KCTV show current events from outside the DPRK?

What is lionize?
    • Definition of "Lionize". In Norway, the US, ROK, and just about anywhere else in the world, you'll see a lot more variety on their TV channels than on the North Korean ones. When will the North Korean people decide they've lionized Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il enough? Why can't they bother to put much more on their airwaves than that? --Shultz IV 02:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The people of the DPRK assign great social importance to the three generals from Mount Paektu, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Suk. It was through these great personalities that Korea was liberated from imperial occupation. Had it not been for the formation of Juche-Korea, the whole of the Korean peninsula would still be in the grip of foreign powers, not in the interest of the Korean people. Daily life inside the DPRK is focused on family, work and social education. There is no need for anything else to make the life of the ordinary worker happy. If foreign television was introduced to DPRK society without any guidance, people would be very confused and could be lead to think, by seeing nice cars, people with fancy clothes, and expensive things, that the west has more to offer and that living in a capitalist society is better than living in a socialist country. True to the ideal of not polluting the people with media content, the authorities of DPRK broadcasting has correctly made the wise decision of not offering any content from outside sources. This means that broadcasting is only adapted for Korean needs, discarding everything that is counter-society or counter-productive or against the teachings of our leaders. My individual opinion is that some content from western programming should be showed on a regular basic, teaching people about the reality of capitalist societies, so people can appreciate how safe the DPRK society is from crime, poverty, unemployment, expensive housing, and other social problems that plague the west. Such programming would have to be guided and adapted to a DPRK audience an narrated in Korean, and not displace Korean culture (i.e. not take much more than 1% of programming time). --Bjornar 18:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


2. If there's religious freedom in the DPRK, why isn't there a religious channel that spreads God's Word, wisdom, and pastors' sermons? In South Korea and many other countries, there are TV channels meant specifically for religious broadcasting, so why doesn't the DPRK have it if religious freedom exists there?

Because most people aren't religious, and those who beleive study in their own circles. If any religion grows above more than half the population, I would figure more TV programming would be dedicated, but not at this rate.
Besides, living in the UK I have failed to ever notice a TV channel specifically dedicated to broadcasting religious doctrine... this line of argument can barely be considered proof that the people of North Korea are therefore oppressed in terms of religious belief! 86.135.172.95 20:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Good point! --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
    • If you say there is religious freedom in the DPRK, then would you like to allow Christian missionaries to pay the country a visit, distribute Bibles, and spread the Good News about the Lord? --Shultz IV 02:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I said there is religios freedom in the DPRK, not that foreigners are free to influence and try to convert people. There is a very clear difference. You are allowed to worship whatever god you beleive in, but not to influence others. People must themselves realize their faith. People are free to individually seek out information about other religions, and there are books available in every subject about religion inside the public library. Foreigners are not allowed to drag their combined religious and political agenda into the DPRK. Too many missionaries use religion to promote "their" style of values from western societies onto Koreans. Clearly that agenda is in conflict with Juche-Korea and not in the interest of Koreans. However, some Christian groups who demonstrated that they can respect the society of the DPRK has been given freedom to come to DPR Korea and to do Christian work in our country, in the sake of humanity and solidarity with the DPRK people, as well as to hold joint mass with Christian Koreans and worship together. This demonstrates there is will to support Christianity for Korean Christianity itself, while respecting the rest of the Korean people who may have other beleifs. Remember that after the Fatherland Liberation War (Korean War), many Korean churches were destroyed by yankee imperialist's bombs. Our Leader Kim Il Sung rebuilt the churches so the Christian Koreans could have churches to go to. This is one example of our Leaders's great compassion with people of all races, religions and desire for people to be in peace and respect with all people. --Bjornar 18:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


3. Why haven't I seen KFA members that are women, black, or oriental in any of the KFA videos?

We have many members from Asia and Africa and all over the world. Which video do you refer to specifically?
    • I once saw a video about a KFA trip from '04. At the Gojeang (Kochang) Cooperative Farm, Andrew Morse (IIRC) said "disaster", and you corrected him and said "Hardship". Later, Alejandro made a much bigger deal about it and gave Andrew a real hard time. Except for the hispanic Alejandro, all of the KFA members in that video were Caucasian/white. Unfortunately, the link I saw it from doesn't supply that video anymore. --Shultz IV 02:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
David Borenstein, a KFA member, who was in this short footage, is not white. He is half Jew, half Syrian. Furthermore, to judge the KFA's preference to race based on some glitchy footage from the internet, showing a couple of minutes from the KFA's 6 year long history, is misguided. We have many non-white KFA members, among them several thousand Chinese. But since the colour of your skin really doesn't matter to me, I feel it is pointless to discuss that issue. --Bjornar 18:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I hope to take a look at their pictures sometime. When does the korea-dpr.com site next get updated with new photos of never-before-seen KFA members? --Shultz IV 18:22, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
The KFA gallery already have pictures of people from different races from those who attended DPRK trips and willingly had their photo taken. Most (99%) of the KFA members never visit the DPRK or have their picture taken. Also, the second largest member group are US citizens, thus the issue of race is totally pointless. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Btw, you must've gone on a KFA trip to the DPRK in the last two or so months. What changes did you see over there? I'm hoping you saw some significant changes; I read from reports made by tourists who visited the DPRK that it's like "the clock turned back several decades" as soon as they crossed over from Dandong to Sinuiju. They reported a lot of advertisements, that is, of Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il.
I don't understand your question. Are you talking about advertisement or changes since my last visit?? --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
In another blog, one says it's like time stopped in the 1970s in Gaeseong. No building that looks newer than 1970s construction was seen there. Another blog says that Pyongyang (and maybe some other visited cities) looked a lot like Leningrad in 1969.
Stupid, since neither the Koryo hotel nor the Yangkkakdo hotel in Pyongyang hardly looks like anything found in Leningrad in 1969. Also look at the Korea Computer Center building which is hyper-modern. Go to the www.kcckp.net website and read in People's Korea or Pyongyang today and you'll find many modern buildings. If you read blogs, make sure you also check other sources before beleiving them. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
So then Bjornar, have you seen anything new constructed in your latest trip to North Korea? Did you ask Alejandro about visiting the village of Yodok to prove that there was no "Kwan-Li-So No. 15" (a.k.a. a political concentration/labor camp?) --Shultz IV 04:02, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
All I saw was a normal village driving past. Unfortunately there was no time to into the village and examine the area more closely. Maybe next time. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

4. I know there are children in North Korean orphanages that need to be adopted by somebody. Moreover, many people worldwide are willing to adopt North Korean foster children. Why isn't it happening? Sad, really. --Shultz IV 20:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Since the terrible Arduous March, many children were left as orphans, either because parents died, or because they could not care for their children. It sounds grotesque but these were terrible times. In these days, there are a lot of orphans. Many orphans are now 8 or 9 years old. Often, there are 2-3 employees who take care of a large group of children in each orphanage. I cannot say the exact number. Also, to adopt DPRK children is something I haven't heard about anyone attempting before, and I don't think our ministries or committees here has heard about it either. If anyone wants to adopt a DPRK child, this presents with some cultural/political/ideological challenges, but any parent with infinate patience and a solid economy could probably succceed in something. Anyone interested may contact korea@korea-dpr.com and proceed to explain their intentions. I will support the idea of atleast giving it a try. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

5. Why North Koreans can't leave their country? I don't really think it's democratic! --gacek91 12:07, 19 June 2006 (CET)

Who said DPRK citizens can't leave their country? Many do every day of those who live near the Chinese border. For them, crossing the border is inexpensive and convenient. Travelling to other countries than China is both impractical and too expensive for an average citizen. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Can you provide more information on this? Especially with regards to travel to South Korea, and Emigration from the DPRK. Why are the reunions between divided families performed in such a way (I've read from multiple sources that they are ordered to stop them from defecting)? How easy is it for a North Korean citizen to apply to leave the country permanently and live elsewhere?

If North Koreans can freely leave their country why are the bribes required to get past the border guards getting so expensive? Datacharge 01:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BPOV is policy, not article

Your article BPOV would probably be better placed somewhere here: Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy). I've nominated it for deletion not because of any opinion on its contents but just because a wiki article is not the place to suggest a new policy for running wiki.
Cheers. Dybryd 18:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

bjornar, i had the same reception from wiki for my "no npov" attempts. we may need to figure another route for this discussion on wiki philosophy. i liked your bpov page by the way. Hongkyongnae 18:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! I followed their guidelines and posted a reference to it on Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy) as they said. Let's see what they make of it there.--Bjornar 17:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


just posted a response on the Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy). again, you have good points, but the responses i read dont really seem to grasp the importance of critically analyzing your assumptions on knowing and producing knowledge. oh well. Hongkyongnae 02:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I've posted a reply to provoke a reaction. If it fails, I guess I will begin attacking NPOV in the NPOV discussion area and to involve via e-mail the Wikipedia founder.--Bjornar 14:07, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

hi bjornar. i just added some more to the Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy). thanks for caring forth on this issue. as i mentioned on the pump, we may be becoming little wiki-guerillas. :) Hongkyongnae 15:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] North Korea's System of Government?

We're currently trying to reach a consensus on what to put for North Korea's system of government in the North Korea article's infobox. The discussion is going on here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:North_Korea#System_of_Government Please give us your input! crazyeddie 06:15, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question from Cxk271 (moved from main page)

Apologies if this the wrong place for this question but I have one for you. How can you defend such a vile, morally bankrup regime as the current one in the DPRK? (This isn't meant to be an attack its a genuine question)Cxk271 22:35, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Cxk271, your question seem not so much as a question nor does it sound anything other than an attack. I don't think it is a very respectful question, since you obviously must know that I wouldn't sit here representing the DPRK had I agreed to what you are saying in your question. So I think you already know the answer. Still, I will grant you a simple answer for you to ponder: I am here because nobody else will. --Bjornar 22:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry if it doesn't sound very respectful but its rather hard to respect someone who defends the indefensible. I just want to know why you do. Do you believe the DPRK is the workers' paradise it claims to be? Cxk271 13:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes. Maybe you think you live in a paradise too. --Bjornar 19:56, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Note: I am not pretending I don't know the reality. Only thing is, I know two realities. In one society, material paradise, the people suck. In the other, material suck and the people are like paradise. I know I am putting this blunt, but truth hurts. (My comrades like honest people) --Bjornar 21:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Your comrades lock honest people up in labor camps. Datacharge 00:06, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nuclear / 6-party talks

Hi Bjornar, pity I didn't notice you earlier. If you're representing the DPRK then can I ask you three general questions:

1. Do you know much about the six-party talks concerning the DPRK's nuclear program?

Yes. --Bjornar 20:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

2. If so, are there any reasons apart from financial sanctions that is causing the DPRK not be willing to return to the talks?

Yes. The idea of financial sanctions is not even our most important focus of having these talks. The DPRK is not fishing for financial aid, nor going to compromise in any way, or else we would have compromised long ago. The western media is trying to paint a picture that is clearly different from our agenda. Here is our main agenda: The US never signed a peace treaty, and they continue with their hostilities on the Korean peninsula, even threatening about re-igniting the war, and a pre-emptive nuclear strike against the North. Only if the US is willing to discuss peace are we willing to discuss anything. Money and aid is worthless for our people unless there is peace and stability. Hence, our security is priority number one. Our security can only be safeguarded by ourselves. Therefore, no "security guarantee" from the US nor any of its puppets can be accepted. Our country will continue to be a sovereign nation despite the US hysterical effort to destroy anything that stand up against it. Our ambition is only to safeguard our country. We pose no threat to others. We have nuclear weapons but we never used against any other country, never invaded another country and we don't plan to. Our country wants to develop further relations with South Korea and continue the process of peaceful reunification with South Korea under the June 15th Joint North-South declaration signed in 2000 and re-signed 2005. If the US wants to talk, we can talk, but only if they quit acting like jerks. Which they did in all our meetings. We've decided to postpone further meetings unless the americans can offer something new, like a peace treaty or to walk out of South Korea. --Bjornar 20:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

3. Does the DPRK derive any benefit by stalling / not returning to the diplomatic route?

On our international opinion poll in general, not at all, but that is mostly the western media's fault for not accurately taking into account our version of the story. For the DPRK, yes, since it means we control our destiny regardless of any outside pressure. We can't be bullied, but we also don't bully other nations. I know many people were concerned with our missile launch. The US and other nations carry out such tests many times more than us. The US even perform regularly nuclear testing in Alaska which if harmful to the environment and general population. The US have nuclear submarines, and rocket sites all over the world, making it a threat to the whole world. For the DPRK we've decided not to waste our time sitting in meetings with people who don't know what the real situation is for the Korean people, that families have been separated for 50 years, that there are anti-DPRK laws in South Korea that makes it illegal to study North Korean literature or to try to get any real information about the DPRK from the DPRK, and also the reckless deamonizing and alienation of our entire country. The people who know the least about the DPRK are the South Koreans, then, second is the US, because of the disinformation and hatred, even high-level US official regurgitate their own propaganda directed against their people which was designed to perpetuate the division of Korea and to safeguard continued occupation and presence by US troops and their dominance in the region. No longer wanting to sit and take all the nonconstructive verbal abuse, which has gained our nation and both Korean sides nothing, we decide to opt-out until the US side get their act together and start to talk with a peaceful solution in mind instead of trying to force us to submit to their lifestyle. --Bjornar 20:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

If you could any answer any of these in more detail than what is being reported in the news that would be great! Thanks Jsw663 03:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

What use are peace treaties - or any treaties - when signed with criminals? The U.S. via Madeleine Albright and the Clinton administration tried that, and succeeded only in allowing the criminal DP[sic]RK to steal food and arm itself. The U.S. has the morally, economic, and militarily superior position because what they want is what is also best for the Korean people. For what possible reason should they give that up to provide security for a murderous, thieving, criminal government?

[edit] History and Reunification

Bjornar, both Koreas have a different view of events during the Korean War. For instance, the museum near the DMZ on the north side seems to present the Americans as baby-killers and rapists. When Korea is reunited, how do you see these differences being resolved? Whatever they choose for their textbooks, one or both sides will have to be prepared to digest some very different ideas. Also, how do you think this change will effect the society they live in? I imagine people who are set in their ways will be very reluctant to change their beliefs overnight.

I've talked to many officials from DPRK government as well as from various ministries in the government, and I have difficulty getting a clear answer about things like this. That doesn't mean that nobody thought of this, of course the DPRK want to preserve their way of life, and once reunification is a reality, people like me, who can see both perspectives, must assist in order to protect the way of life of both North and South Korean society, while allowing for such freedom of movement that northerners can freely visit South Korea and southerners can freely visit North Korea. I know that some blending of ideas and customs is bound to happen. It always does when an inaccessible society has an encounter from the outside, just look at history. Already I've seen once some north Koreans who went outside the country came back changed, liked to do things differently or started liking other kind of music. As in all change in the direction of cultural influence from the outside, this is not taken as a good sign in the DPRK if it makes some people think their country is inferior because some countries have people driving around in nice cars, better-looking clothes, or more hip music. I am not saying nice cars, good clothes or hip music is wrong. I am saying that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. There are negative sides about life outside north Korea, that are not so visible. It is the idea that DPRK society is inferior that must be fought, because the DPRK people need to keep their pride and dignity no matter what happens. They deserve to not lose any of this. As for reconciling with South Korea and both sides sharing information, yes, it will happen. The truth about the GI's rape during the war will become known in South Korea, but North Koreans will learn that not all americans are monsters, and that given enough time, patience, and mutual respect, different systems and societies can live side by side, share culture and music, and even to raise living standards by fair trade and synergy effects of having cheap workforce and heavy industry in the north, and agriculture and a high-tech international market in the South to see to all exports and imports. After reunification, north Korea can do what it does best, which is to work and produce, and the south Koreans can do what they do best, develop business relations and export goods. Together the two countries will live and share this wealth, and get rid of paranoid hostilities and end all inhumane security laws to ensure a happy and prosperous future. This will inevitably happen without US interference. The US dread it because it would mean the birth of a new superpower in Asia that could outperform the Chinese and Japanese economy. Already South Korea is booming on its own and North Korea is main supplyer to China of many raw materials. --Bjornar 20:44, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Head of State

I have seen several references to the fact that the Presidency of North Korea was left vacant after the death of Kim Il-Sung, and that there is therefore no de jure head of state. I remember reading once that Kim Il-Sung is still officially considered the country's President (while Kim Jong-Il effectively heads the country through his leadership of the Party and the National Defense Commission) - therefore that, on paper, North Korea has a dead head of state. Is this true, or is this a rumour spread by political opponents of North Korea? Walton monarchist89 10:14, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a difficult question for outsiders to understand. Kim Yong Nam is functioning as the head of state, while Kim Jong Il is the chairman of the national defence commission and supreme leader of the DPRK. To see the difference in roles, you have to think of it like this: Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il are the ones who since the beginning create, design the blueprints, and direct the ideas of how the country, ideology and society should work, while Kim Yong Nam and all the officials and deputies are the ones who carry out the day-to-day implementation of these ideas. Kim Il Sung is so revered even to this day, because of what he represent and what he means for every north Korean, who love him as their own father. When he died, the country was in such sorrow and despair that nobody could ever think of a replacement of him, not even by his son who always followed him and had since childhood understood the ideas of Kim Il Sung. So it was decided that Kim Il Sung would be the eternal president, since the original ideas would never change, and his son Kim Jong Il was not put into his place, but given a position that would best fit his unique abilities, and thus give the Korean people a leader that could continue the legacy of Kim Il Sung, in order to protect the country and build a powerful socialist nation free from outside domination. Before his death, Kim Il Sung never wanted any statue of himself. Kim Il Sung was always very modest, always thinking about others before himself. He didn't want any statues, but the people built anyway the famous statue in Pyongyang, and one in some of the other major cities. Kim Jong Il is very similar to Kim Il Sung in this way, and to this day there is no statue yet of Kim Jong Il anywhere to be seen. Maybe after Kim Jong Il dies there will emerge one or two, time will tell. Actually many people are worrying what will happen when Kim Jong Il dies, as there is no clear idea who will continue their work. But I am hoping that there will be a solution, and I am confident it will resolve, I just hope everything will sort it out and that Korean reunification happen first, so the next man to take over the position doesn't have the same kind of hard challenge.--Bjornar 20:59, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm curious. Do you think there is any possibility that Kim Jong Il's daughter will succeed him? 68.38.85.155 06:19, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion either Kim Il Sung isn't as modest as you say or the North Koreans have far less respect for his wishes then one might expect. Besides I believe the giant statue of Kim Il Sung in Pyongyang that used to be gold plated was erected while he was still in charge. Datacharge 00:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About you?

Hi, I was reading your discussions on North Korea and you interested me. Where were you born? How many times have you been to DPRK? I must admit, although I don't know much, Pyongyang looks like an interesting place to see.

Speedboy Salesman 17:54, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


Hello Speedboy Salesman. I was born in 1977 in Norway. In spite of that, I have found my second home in the DPRK, a warm and welcoming society for those that genuinely are interested and who offer their unconditional friendship and loyalty, I have decided to support the north Korean people, and to support the peaceful reunification of north and south Korea. I've been many times to the DPRK. I reccommend visiting not only Pyongyang, but visit many parts of the country. Indeed what is most spectacular about Pyongyang are not the monuments and decorative parks, but the people are so friendly and human that you think you are in paradise. Indeed you are, since the people create this environment, although in material terms they may lack the luxury of the west, they have something which is priceless nowadays: they give you their unconditional trust and friendship when you do. The last place on earth where you can safely be naive and kind without getting ripped off. --Bjornar 21:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I've seen videos of the DPRK (I refuse to call it "North Korea"...I think it must a respect thing) and it seems so different to the country you hear on the (Western) news, which is just a warmongering nation. I'm glad that the DPRK retains it's Korean culture, whereas most countries in the Western hemisphere just follow the US culture (McDonalds anybody?) and that bothers me. I've listened to the DPRK music section to, I think it's very good. But I hear DPRK banned rock and roll? Is it true? do you get "rock" music in the DPRK? What music do you listen to? just asking because if you read my user page, you can see I'm a musician. Speedboy Salesman My talk page 22:16, June 9, 2008 (UTC).

Hello again. I've limited time to answer nowadays, so I chose to answer your comment. The DPRK does not ban Rock and Roll in itself, I did enjoy both hearing and participated in singing songs that were both in the style of Rock & Roll, and even some US songs (American Pie) together with Koreans. While it is correct that most foreign music simply isn't played on radio or television, people can still listen to western music for free in the library where they can borrow the CD. I think buying the music is still very expensive for most Koreans, but I've not checked this. Personally I listen to the Korean People's Army Orchestra, and the Pochonbo Electronic Ensemble which is my favourite. I particularly like some of the various Korean folk music. I can send you some MP3 if you send me your email address to bjornar@korea-dpr.com. I would like to hear remixes of some of the Korean folk music some day :) What a perfect way to build bridges between cultures. I bring music back into the DPRK, from many artists. The Korean people would love to hear some of their own music interpreted in a new and exiting way I am sure. --Bjornar 19:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
On other events, I shall comment briefly on the latest information. ONE: DPR Korea has tested a nuclear weapon not as a political tool, or to gain anything in any talk, or to force anything in talks. The testing is a natural consequence of finishing the development process, just like the US did this too in Los Alamos in 1945. The DPRK is the one who ended the six-party talks because the US had nothing to offer. The DPRK is still ready to talk if the US can put peace on the table. The DPRK does not need food aid or any "help" anymore and is ready to cope for itself, without outside interference. The food crisis ended 2002, and much improvement has happened since 2004 also. Living standard is now above some of the poorer European countries. TWO: DPR Korea won't attack unless attacked. THREE: The DPRK will not accept any "security guarantee" and any claim that we suggested this is false. The DPRK has seen that nobody helped Iraq or Afghanistan when those countries was invaded. Who will help the DPRK if it is invaded? Nobody will. FOUR: The DPRK is not Afghanistan or Iraq and won't compare itself with those countries. The DPRK was never, is not, nor will ever be an allied of these countries nor any other countries. The DPRK is an independant country allied to nobody, on the path of its own destiny, who by its own choosing wish to pursue peace and prosperity for its people, but with the absolute guarantee of its continued existance without outside interference, outside force, outside invasion or any attempt to destroy our society. FIVE: It basically boils down to: Don't mess with our country, and we won't mess back.--Bjornar 19:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
The U.S. will act in the interest of South Korea and Japan. That's 167 million people the U.S. will defend the interests of, whereas you're speaking only on behalf of a handful of thieves, murderers, and liars who have embarked on this militarist lunacy rather than feed their own people. I do hope you're just a mendacious propagandist and not actually stupid enough to think that you really speak for the North Korean people.
I speak on behalf of the government which represents the DPR Korean people. The US will never dare to take any sort of action against the DPRK. That is why it instead will resort to blocades, sanctions and other means to undermind the DPRK. The DPRK is a sovereign nation and has a right to make nuclear weapons. Any country who forcibly imposes sanctions against us, will be answered with a declaration of war from each country who decide to impose the sanctions. When I say impose sanctions, I don't mean to support it simply by approving, but I mean those who will enforce such sanctions by attacking or detaining any vessel going into or out of DPRK territorial waters, including any ship sailing under DPRK flags in international waters, or any ship or vessel sailing under any flag destined for the DPRK. Any nation who launces special forces undercover to subvert, sabotage or destroy our society inside DPRK territory or against the property of the DPRK outside DPRK borders will be attacked by the Korean People's Army and the nation responsible will be in a state of war with our country. The message is clear: Hands off the DPRK and hands off any trade vessels going into or out of the DPRK. Our trade routes are important for the DPRK people and we will defend our rights for survival in our own way, and deny "help" from other nations that has political strings attached. Aggression against us is futile. We will work together with the US to solve the nuclear issue and other differences if the US want to talk about solutions. --Bjornar 18:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion it's not the US that North Korea needs to be worried about. What will most likely cause North Korea to collapse is the growing flow of information from China. Without an information vacuum the North Korean government will likely collapse but if they tighten their border with China this will hurt their economy and quite possible lead to collapse. In short North Korea is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Their have already been reports of a few small scale protests, while minor these would have been inconceivable just a decade before. As digital technology (like cell phones) becomes cheaper and more prevalent, and North Korea reluctantly engages in market liberalization that is necessary for economic recovery but harmful to their propaganda efforts I suspect we will see more unrest.Datacharge 01:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] just wondering?

Is this bjornar of the KFA? I am a member also! --Frogsprog 19:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes I am. In 2001 I was appointed Official Delegate of the KFA in Norway, and later I was given the position of International Counselor, representing the KFA worldwide, keeping both positions to this day. Pyongyang recognize my credentials and I also carry other responsibilities as assistant to the Special Delegation of the Government of the DPRK, (by proxy) allowing me to speak on behalf of the DPRK government. Having this responsibility is an honour, and although most people who know me, including Pyongyang know I can be quite informal and free-speaking, I still manage to remain in my opinions and discussions in total accordance with DPRK policy, however the way I communicate this is very different from the KCNA so people can more easily understand me than say, for example the latest KCNA denounciation of the US military. I know that my work and contributions can help clarify misunderstandings on both sides, and I remain in dialogue with DPRK authorities on an almost daily basis. The line of work is to continue to build and maintain the KFA, a large network of different people of all walks of life, ranging from all kinds of political background, who must follow a basic set of rules of conduct designed to keep everyone happy, that are interested and share the interest of DPRK society, and by being KFA members gain access to information and the open path to the DPRK should they decide to visit. The DPRK is lucky to have the KFA. If every country had a KFA working in the same way as ours, then each country would have houndreds of diplomats working full time for free, always working for peace and understanding, while defending their country with words, not weapons, with boundless dedication and patience. Maybe then, there would be world peace? --Bjornar 21:19, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
So I guess you feel no remorse in putting yourself to the service of a tyrannical and dictatorial government that willingly starves its people to death, spreading propaganda in their favour, all in exchage for a nifty paycheck and a comfortable life abroad, eh?
First: I feel no remorse since I did nothing wrong.
Second: Our government didn't starve anyone, things out of our hands happened, like the natural disaster, collapse of the soviet union, 6 floodings in 6 years in a row, everyone suffered during this time, and members of the government starved too. They tried to keep nice food for Kim Jong Il, but he refused fine food, instead eating potatoe during this time.
Third: I don't spread propaganda, I try to keep an open minded dialogue. As for getting payed, I pay my own bills through working in a capitalist society, so I don't put any burden on the Korean People. As long as I can work, I will continue to provide for myself, and use the excess money to buy fertilizer and medicine for the Korean People. If the western capitalist governments had as dedicated followers as us, there would be a more human society. In the west, my line of thinking is seen as naive and wishful thinking. In the DPRK, you experience this on a daily basis and I think of it as a duty to be in solidarity not in words, but in action. --Bjornar 20:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


If North Korea is so "paradisiacal", why aren't you living there?
The fact that the United States government has an opressive, plutocratic and imperialistic nature, specially against the third world, does not make its enemies any more justifified. Two wrongs don't make a right.
One right and one wrong makes one right. Who will decide what is wrong and what is right? --Bjornar 20:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Poor Karl Marx must be turning over his grave at the atrocities commited in his name!
Lobizón 15:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Everything in the DPRK is done in Kim Il Sung's name, and if you go to Kumsusan Memorial Palace, you will see he never turns over. --Bjornar 20:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:HOTM.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:HOTM.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 09:58, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interested in Helping the Democratic People's Republic of Korea

I just applied to join the Korean Friendship Association and I fervently hope that my application is accepted. I want to know how, as an American, I can best support the government and leadership of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea while staying within the bounds of US and international law. Two of my most marketable skills are writing (especially screenplays) and oratory. I would be supremely honored if I my skills could be applied to promote greater understanding and goodwill between the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and other nations (especially America, which seems to have a fervent hatred of everything Choson). --07:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC).Nsper7 07:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A friendly suggestion about the DPRK Website

Perhaps some of the confusion about the leadership structure could be abated if informationa about DPRK leaders such as Kim Yong Nam were added to the official Website. Right now, there's only material on Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il, as far as I can see. 68.38.85.155 06:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is good for the "ordinary worker"?

Bjornar says:

<<Daily life inside the DPRK is focused on family, work and social education. There is no need for anything else to make the life of the ordinary worker happy. If foreign television was introduced to DPRK society without any guidance, people would be very confused and could be lead to think, by seeing nice cars, people with fancy clothes, and expensive things, that the west has more to offer and that living in a capitalist society is better than living in a socialist country.>>

So does that mean that we "worker drones" are not entitled to our hobbies? Our creature comforts? What do you think we work for? Purely for enjoyment? I don't think so. People expect (and deserve) to be compensated properly for their hard work. There is nothing wrong with having fancy clothes, color TV, a car, or even a pop-music record collection if you work for it and earn the money honestly.
I agree, sorry it didn't come out quite as I intended. There are a lot of more complicated aspects that I wanted to point a finger against, such as in the case of over-production in a mass-produced consumer-centric society, but I did not imply that regular workers shouldn't be allowed items. Indeed, everyone should be able to have access to better clothes, equipment and greater standard of living. But I am pointing a finger against a society in which lifestyle has deteriorated into envy between the "haves" and the "have not"s, where greed and consumerism has been allowed to take over the main focus of development, instead of rational use of natural resources and the right and fair amount and distribution of wealth. --Bjornar 20:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I find it ironic that in this ideal socialist state the divide between rich and poor is even greater than in the west. For instance in the UK everyone has access to free health care and in the US emergency rooms are required by law to treat anyone regardless of financial means but in the DPRK the best medical treatment is reserved for the party cadre and in many poorer areas medical care is almost nonexistent. Or take food distribution ever since the reduction in rations that took place in the 90's it is difficult to survive without supplementing official rations with food from farmers markets or the black market, the elite can afford this a lot of the time poorer citizens cannot hence the DPRK's high rate of malnutrition. Datacharge 02:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
It's easy for you to speak about what the ordinary worker "needs" or makes him happy. You probably live in a house with steam heat, reliable electricity and water service, unrestricted media, Internet and telephone access, plenty of food and drink.
I discovered how people are different in one society where every material need is taken for granted and in others where people are poor. A rich person wouldn't help me, but in every poor person I met they would share what they had. --Bjornar 20:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
You can buy whatever newspapers and books on ANY subject; buy any LP or tape of whatever kind of music you please - no matter how brainless it and commercial it may be. You can travel anywhere you want if you can afford it, etc. You can pursue hobbies like amateur radio or computers without fear.
Where you gain some freedom, you lose some other things along the way. But I am no moralist, I don't care what people download, watch or where they travel. In North Korea, because of stricter morale, there are limitations to what kind of music and information is available. While losing some diversity, one gains other positive things. Some people will not like that the government or system control what you read or listen to. In the so-called free world, some material is forbidden and an bring problems with it. Imagine a high-school kid borrowing in the library a book written by Kim Il Sung in a conservative school in the US. I've known cases where students were expelled just for reading about North Korea and taking an interest in another culture and political system. So download what you want, read and buy what you want. You can get anything on the internet, mostly uncontrolled. But there is still control and there is still political persecution, in most societies. North Korea is a fortress-country where information flows very free inside the country but where contact with the outside is filtered via all channels, so I try to contribute in opening more channels of cultural exchange, however I will not be able to get every piece of information you can find on the internet legal in North Korea, and I see that sometimes people don't really benefit from every bit of material that is out there.
About travel, yes, travel is legal in North Korea for every citizen. Problem is currency. You cannot exchange North Korean won and be able to afford to go outside the country by air. Some people go by train or foot which of course is much cheaper. Some of the stories you will hear about "mass defection" and such are completely lies. 100.000 or so North Koreans travel outside the country every year. Of course some people (1 or 2) every year is tricked by Chinese scam artists into various crimes. I don't like it when it happen, but when a tragedy happens involving some kind of crime, the western media start spinning even further so that it becomes a lie to meet the expectations of what used to be rumours but today are accepted as "half-truths." I should point out also that while things are not easy since North Korea don't have much money, still 99.998 or so people are returning every year without any incident. If people are tricked, it's because they are gullible from years of living in a protected environment. --Bjornar 20:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
These people can't. All their media is tightly controlled; there are food, electricity, water shortages, etc. They can't travel freely inside their own country. They can't live anywhere they wish. To live in Pyongyang you need special permission, and God help you if you're a cripple.
Where did you get all this information from? People that I know both inside Pyongyang and rural provinces are able to pursue their interest, work where they want, and there are no water shortages. There are no restriction of living in Pyongyang and I have taken pictures of old, pregnant and sometimes people with handicaps in Pyongyang, even bicycles (people claimed that bicycling in Pyongyang was illegal). Some people claim that cell phones aren't available in Pyongyang, but you connect via GSM to "SUN NET" and you can now call outside the country if you fill out the neccessary form and pay 2000 Euro in pre-paid phone cards. (Check with the International Communications Centre in Pyongyang).
Wether you beleive me or not I don't care. In fact, I am growing tired of repeating the same thing over and over. I cannot compete with the freedom of the internet, or multi-million dollar corporation newsmedia like CNN, ABC, NBC, BBC. I have a few dozen people I know who are DPRK supporters. Most of them don't even bother discussing on the internet or answering these questions. I can see why, it gets tiresome being outnumbered by what I call "democracy on the internet". Problem is, that those who use the internet mostly live in the developed world, although this is changing, fast. The real issue will be if the world will become more distributed and fair, by adding the presence of other cultures, or if western-style consumerism and globalization will be spread to all nations. --Bjornar 20:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Well bicycling is illegal for woman in Pyonyang (and the rest of Korea though bribery outside of Pyongyang allows many woman to hold on to this liberty) Datacharge 00:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Can an average North Korean buy a book or record in North Korea that is purely for popular entertainment? Or does EVERYTHING have to celebrate your "dear Leader"? Why should an average citizen have to keep a picture of the damned ruler of the country in a prominent place in their house? Do you have a picture of the president of your own country in your house? I don't.
For regular entertainment, yes they can. They can even get romantic/erotic material for free in the library which has no political agenda at all. About the pictures, is not a requirement - it is done freely by every family who wants to. Who told you it was a law? There is no such law or rule. I seen houses without - and people can go about also without the famous lapel pin which you can put on. I walk around with a Kim Il Sung badge when in Pyongyang, but because I choose to. Sometimes I dont use it, particularly depending on what kind of thing I am doing, if I am only relaxing I might not put on, but 90% of the time there I do. I noticed also some of my comrades even those from high positions in the Party sometimes would wear a black uniform without the pin, and sometimes with it. It is no big deal if you don't bring it, since it is something you choose to go around with or not. --Bjornar 20:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
How dare you presume that, if the DPRK people were exposed to outside media, they couldn't make their own decisions and opinions. They are not mindless drones. They are human beings and deserve to be treated as such. Stephanie Weil 15:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not saying they are unable to make their own decision, only that their culture would be ruined - forever. This is putting it bluntly, but yes, foreigners would exploit things there. Do you realize how things are in Cambodia and Thailand now? The problem is with poverty. If the system collapse in the DPRK, there will be massive poverty, way beyond even the worst propaganda say today about the country. I heard one media which said that one part of the DPRK's population is in jail, the other half is starved to death. Such are ridiculous lies, if that was true, nobody would be left. Fact is, that North Korea has better living standard than most african countries, and most post-soviet countries. In Romania, Thailand and Cambodia, children are exploited sexually. It is estimated (according to UN figures) that 1 million children in poor countries in Asia alone are in child brothels. While in North Korea these kind of activities are totally forbidden. Since living standards are better than 2002, and North Korea has almost recovered completely from the mid 90's food crisis, things are looking good. But, as soon as people discover that living standards are better in (wealthy parts of) Thailand or Cambodia, they can become disillusioned with the still heavy burdens of building a strong society at home. Yes, people are making hard sacrifices today, but they can be fooled so easily by people since they aren't used. North koreans live totally protected. And, if they think you can get rich quick just by moving into towns outside the country -- think again. Look what's happening in the People's Republic of China. People from rural areas are poor, so they move into the cities, expecting to find jobs. Mostly they don't and end up on the street. In North korea, job security is guaranteed for both rural and urban citizen. Not so in other parts of the world. Until people in North korea are educated about the dangers of the unprotected outside, they should be sheilded from all outside influence that can impair the current system and society. As a liberal person, I like the idea of openness, but I also realize the dangers of outside cultural influence. Throughout history, whenever two very different cultures meet, bad things happen for both sides. Eventually, a normalization would make matters more easy, so that North koreans can learn to protect their systems from their own power as borders eventually in the future become more open. I am working in that direction, using my influence to promote Korean reunification. And I am trying to contribute to solve some very difficult questions that must be solved. Better to try solving them in advance than afterwards - or worse: If opening up the border is deemed too risky. I must work in the direction of finding a compromise between freedom and security. Would you be up to such a task? --Bjornar 20:52, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Well there already is "massive poverty" in North Korea many people think perhaps up to 10% of the population died in the "arduous march". The economic system that was largely responsible for this is still in place (yes the floods were a large factor as well). In fact reports indicate North Korea is in for a rough year since there has been flooding and South Korea is holding back on their rice handout until the government carries out the nuclear agreements made in February. Datacharge 00:42, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Well thank you Bjornar for your refreshing, more educated and unbiased opinions. If only more people were as willing to find out what the place is really like, and not based on the assumptions of CNN or what not. Anyway, I have a few questions regarding life in the DRPK. Does the internet exist? Are there many people connected? Is it possible in any way to communicate with DPRK citizens either electronically or even through mail? What is their football (soccer) league like? And, so on... Thank you very much :)

You are welcome. I would wish more people can come to North Korea and find out what is is for themselves independantly and with an open mind, I am sure more and more will realize that while it is a different country, it is not always what it is made to be. Anyway, to answer your question: Internet as we know it is not available, but the same functions exist, i.e. chat, games and surfing exist, they even call it "internet" and technically it's the same, although it is limited to DPR Korea only. Technology is rising fast, so schools are now interconnected, and a high-bandwidth fiber is connecting every major city. Still, ordinary Koreans cannot afford a computer, however they can use the computer for free at a library, mostly young people like computers, since it is available in schools, but recently more factories and offices also begin to use computers, so older people also have to learn. They even started providing e-learning, courses that you can take on-line. As for communicating with DPRK citizens, it can be done if you know the name of the one you want to contact, and send email to a specific address that handles all incoming e-mail to Korea. Soccer league I don't know, since I don't know much about football :) But- I know it's hugely popular, and I see school kids play soccer all the time on their free time in the local schools.--Bjornar 18:06, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
In fact the internet as you know it is illegal in the DPRK and there are reliable reports that those found accessing it near the Chinese border through cell phones have been sent to prison camps.Datacharge 00:42, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] April 2007

Welcome to Wikipedia and thank you for your contributions. An article you recently created, DriveLock, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for new articles, so it will shortly be removed (if it hasn't been already). Please use the sandbox for any tests you may want to do and please read our introduction page to learn more about contributing. Thank you. Coren 17:44, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non-free use disputed for Image:Kfa.jpg

Warning sign This file may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:Kfa.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read carefully the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content and then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nice to see some alternate points of view

Though I disagree strongly with many of your assertions it is nice to have someone presenting the other side of the story. I hope you keep on contributing to Wikipedia as you provide a valuable contribution.Datacharge 00:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hai

Do you still post or did you piss off your overlords and get shot?

He's still about somewhere, I'm sure. I browsed the KFA's forum and he posted in a thread called Red Capitalists, where he told them off for discussing cola, lol.92.10.88.37 (talk) 14:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yi So-Yeon

Bjornar, I've been reading the KCNA website, and so far I haven't seen any information about Yi So-Yeon, South Korea's first astronaut. I admit, I may have missed it, but I'm about 90% sure there is no information. Doesn't the DPRK think that this event is worth mentioning? After all, the KCNA reports things as mundane as factory tours and gift baskets. Yi So-Yeon had this to say about Korean relations: "I hope someday they will be one, and I hope the [DPRK] people will be happy with my flight."92.9.232.154 (talk) 17:11, 12 April 2008 (UTC)