Talk:Bishop of London

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Contents 1 Merge 2 Balance 3 Hierarchy of Bishops 4 Roman province

[edit] Merge

I have merged the article "Bishop of London (Catholic)" into this one. aliceinlampyland 21:52, 2 March 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Balance

This article seems to lack neutral point of view and, in particular, it repeatedly emphasises the split between Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism which is, in parts, anachronistic and, pretty much everywhere, irrelevant, in that it is not a feature of this see any more than of any historic English see. Chelseaboy 16:42, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Have tried to fix this now. Chelseaboy 16:51, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

All the pre-Reformation English bishoprics were modified by someone a few months back to split them into Catholic and Anglican articles; some echoes of this are probably still kicking around. Here's the pre-move version, if it helps. Shimgray | talk | 16:54, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hierarchy of Bishops

I had always thought the Bishop of Durham was the senior bishop after the two archbishops, given that the role of Prince Bishop is viewed as a higher status, whereas this article seems to state it is the Bishop of London. Can someone clarify please? user:lawsonrob

I thought that too, but it seems the correct order of precedence is the Bishops of London, Durham and Winchester, followed by Diocesan Bishops (in order of seniority), and then Suffragan Bishops. See [1] – Agendum 23:46, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roman province

Are you absolutely sure that the office goes back to the time of the Roman province of Britannia? It seems more likely that Jocelyn of Furness may have written about the early Celtic church, but this just seems rather far-fetched. And, in any case, are you sure that the diocese of London existed then? – Agendum 13:59, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Restitutus is the first historically-attested Bishop of London; he was listed among the bishops present at the Synod of Arles, 314. The site of his cathedral is unknown; it was not St. Paul's. Otherwise, Jocelin is the only witness to his "bishop-list". The antiquarian John Stow saw Jocelin's list: "Stow also gives us, on the authority of 'Joceline of Furneis,' the names of both the first and second archbishops, Thean and Elvanus, as well as of their fourteen successors; and informs us that whilst the first, aided by King Lucius's butler, Ciran, erected the church, the second added a library, and 'converted many of the Druids, learned men in the Pagan law, to Christianity.'" (Charles Knight, ed. London (1843) vol. 5: CXI.-The Churches of London [on-line text]).

"King Lucius" is as much a phantom as his butler Ciran, needless to say. Clerics writing histories of diocese were under pressure to establish an "apostolic succession" that would support their current bishop's claims of precedence, etc. Look at the dioceses of Gaul for instances. Some of the other Roman bishop names listed by Jocelin, who had no documents at Furness to go by, may have been authentic, nevertheless. The list begins anew with Mellitus (Millet, in English). "And Millet, monk, the which came into the land with St. Austin, was made the first bishop of London, and his see was made in Paul's church." --Wetman 21:19, 3 August 2007 (UTC)