Talk:Biophoton

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For previous discussions see Talk:Biophoton/Archive1

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[edit] Clarification

There are several distinct threads in this article that need to be teased apart.

Firstly, on the scientific side of things, a distinction needs to be maintained between the emission/detection of biophotons, and the function/signaling quality of biophotons.

The emission of biophotons is not disputed. Just take a photomultiplier tube (PMT), stick it in a dark box with some living tissue and compare counts to the empty box. If you don't have a PMT and still think that its disputed, then find a peer reviewed article that diputes it.

The function of biophotons as a signaling mechanism is not nearly as clear. Gurwitsch's original papers have recived some criticism, and there isn't much else attempting to demonstrate functional signaling. A notable exception is Albrecht-Buehler's work, which is published in the mainstream scientific journal PNAS:

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/89/17/8288

Although this paper does not mention other work on spontaneous ultraweak photon emission from living tissues, it does nicely demonstrate that such photon emission is used for intercellular communication.

Secondly, non-scientific aspects of the phenomena are by definition distinct from scientific aspects, and so should be kept seperate at all times throughout the article, or even better, placed in a different article all together.

cheers,

Fletch

[edit] Disastrously horrid article

I have restored the NPOV and accuracy tags to the top of this page, as, after 3 years of edits, it remains a complete train wreck of blatant POV, pseudoscientific nonsense and a virtual total lack of any skeptical viewpoint regarding the subject. The entire article is rife with laughable nonsense such as "The detection of these photons has been made possible due to the development of sensitive modern photomultipliers. Because of this, the existence of this radiation is no longer disputed..." and other similar statements make this article in my opinion an embarassment to wikipedia. The supposed study of "biophotons" is about as far outside of the mainstream of the biological sciences as you can get. I am starting edits now. --Deglr6328 00:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Finished edits removing warnings.--Deglr6328 11:59, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Praise for rewrite, urge open mind on science

Deglr, this was an excellent rewrite! Yet, I do think that your condemnation of this scientific exploration is a bit harsh.

In 2006, there is certainly not a narrowly identifiable "mainstream" of the biological sciences anymore, given the rapid acceleration in hundreds of research directions that currently exists. Also, how can electromagnetic radiation emitting from biological tissues ever be outside the mainstream of biological science, when all interactions between molecules are interactions between atoms, and interactions between atoms are essentially electromagnetic (electron, proton, etc.).

I have recently completed a survey of research in this field on behalf of a high-level Russian spectral physicist who has been asked by an international team to develop new instrumentation for investigations in this area. In the past five years, solid articles have been published in reputable science journals (including Journal Photochemistry Photobiology B; Indian J Exp Biol; Übersichtsarbeit; Journal of Biological Optics; Virtual Journal of Biological Optics; Optics Letters; Cellular and Molecular Life Sciences (CMLS); Bioelektronika; Bioelectromagnetics; Naturwissenschaften) by many researchers other than POPP (IIB, Germany), including TUCHIN Russia: Saratov State University); INABA (Japan: Research Institute of Electrical Communication, Tohoku University, Katahira 2-1-1, 980 Sendai, (Japan); SCHWABL (Switzerland: Padma AG, Schwerzenbach, Switzerland); VAN WIJK (Netherlands: Faculty of Biology, Utrecht University); NIGGLI (Switzerland: BioFoton AG); RUBIK (U.S.) and SWAIN (US, Boston: Northeastern University).

It seems to have been shown that photons are coming out of cells in the visible and NIR spectral range, albeit ultraweak emissions. The cause seems to be not yet well explained, with numerous theories proposed.

This remains a fascinating frontier of real science, where perhaps skepticism, as previously for the round Earth, plate tectonics and global warming, will be shouted ever more loudly right up to the brink of a paradigm shift. -- Jlancaster 02:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


hmm ok well what I mean by the field being 'out of the mainstream' is that I think we can agree that it is not really a phenomenon which is accepted as even really existing by the vast majority of biologists/biochemists. I mean its not like you see in all the latest papers an "ultraweak photon assay" or "biophoton count" or some such as a diagnostic tool. In fact I would point to a scitation search returning very very few papers throughout the past 20 years which mention the subject. Anyway I'd like to see the papers to which you are referring, I can't say I'm guaranteed to be bowled over (SPIE, for instance seems to have no problem publishing any old load of hideous rubbish [1]) but it would certainly be worth a look. --Deglr6328 06:45, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Skepticism section

I added the template {{unbalanced}} to this section. Phrases like "This contrasts biophotons with actually controversial topics" make this section very one-sided in favor of the phenomenon. This section should describe the skepticism, not refute it. --Ginkgo100talk 00:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Schizophrenic article

This article, which I was going to disambigulate, appears to have been written by at least three views... I have found some papers, but if you read this guy first "Wise Geek" you'll find some similarities with the present article. Some papers are like this one Research???, and there are a few that offer *.pdf files. The author is real and is a professor in the physics department at the University of Helsinki. His homepage; here, puts him in an odd light. Thinghy 23:58, 17 June 2007 (UTC)