Talk:Binomial nomenclature

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 This article does not cite any references or sources. (August 2006)
Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unverifiable material may be challenged and removed.
Charles Darwin This article is part of WikiProject Evolutionary biology, an attempt at building a useful set of articles on evolutionary biology and its associated subfields such as population genetics, quantitative genetics, molecular evolution, phylogenetics, evolutionary developmental biology. It is distinct from the WikiProject Tree of Life in that it attempts to cover patterns, process and theory rather than systematics and taxonomy. If you would like to participate, there are some suggestions on this page (see also Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ for more information) or visit WikiProject Evolutionary biology.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.
??? This article has not yet received an importance rating on the assessment scale.
Binomial nomenclature is included in the 2007 Wikipedia for Schools, or is a candidate for inclusion in future versions. Please maintain high quality standards, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the CDs.

Contents

[edit] Trinomial nomenclature

How do such names as Homo sapiens neanderthalensis fit into this nomenclature? -- Zoe

The "third" name is a subspecies name, sometimes "subspecies" is written out before it. (E.g. Treponema pallidum subspecies pallidum causes syphilis, while Treponema pallidum subspecies pertenue causes yaws). I'm not sure how this could be incorporated into the article without really complicating the notion of "binomial" though! -- Someone else 05:32 Apr 15, 2003 (UTC)
Most of that's covered in the linked trinomial nomenclature article, though, right? :o) — OwenBlacker 15:07, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] 1980?

Is 1980 really the correct date for adoption by bacteriologists? Andy Mabbett 00:24, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I have added a footnote as follows::

The botanical code kept references to bacteria until 1975. A bacteriological code of nomenclature was approved at the 4th International Congress for Microbiology in 1947, but was later discarded. The official "Nomenclatural Starting Date" for the current International Code for bacteria is January 1, 1980.

Some further information:

  • The first edition of the International Code of Nomenclature of Bacteria and Viruses was published in 1958
  • Names that were not included in the APPROVED LISTS of 1980 lost standing in bacterial nomenclature.
  • The official "Nomenclatural Starting Date" is 1 January 1980: "One work is deemed to have been published on that date." [1]

See also: [2] Peak 06:35, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] "Puns" used in naming species

I can see you really like the idea that a scientist might make a pun in naming a species (although probably very rare). It is an idea that has merit for inclusion. However, you should use proper English and place it in a sentence where it makes sense. Also, since putting this in a paragraph is for the purpose of tweaking the interest of the reader, it seems that an example would help. Here is how you had it (and then put it back):

"The names used are usually derived from Latin. Although Latin derivation is not universal (names sometimes come from Ancient Greek, sometimes from local languages, often from the name of the person who first discovered the species and is sometimes playful, such as a pun, the names are always treated grammatically as if they were Latin words)."

Note that the verb is wrong and the sentence is about how some words are not from latin, but are latinized from ancient Greek, local languages, or a person's name. Making a pun does not fit in with that point. You could add it as a new sentence with an example - Marshman 17:22, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I added a second paragraph where the idea of a pun fits in better. If you have an example, that would help - Marshman 18:08, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Scientific Plurals

(asked it first at talk:Naming conventions (fauna), but moved it)

Hi, I always wondered how plural forms of scientific names are written: Velociraptors or Velociraptors. I always thought Velociraptors being patently wrong (since it's an English plural). Right? Or is the plural simply "sixteen Velociraptor", just like you say: "This sample contains eleven Krithe rutoti". Phlebas 17:59, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Technically, Latin words take Latin plurals (datum / data), however, few people, including scientists, ever learn Latin anymore. Consequently, there is considerable variation in how plurals are formed. Velociraptor used as a common name, would likely best be pluralized as velociraptors rather than (and I confess, I do not speak Latin) Velociraptorae, although the latter might be recognized as a plural by most. I would not think Velociraptors would be correct for anything, as the meaning would be several species (not individuals) within the genus and an English plural of a Latin word—simply a misspelling. Your solution works in the absence of knowledge of Latin and is probably now followed by most scientists. I think (someone help me out here) that the genus would take the plural in proper latin, but that seems not to be done (i.e., no change at the species level). - Marshman 04:44, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
But what is a common name? I'm taking an example from the Jurassic Park III page. Spinosaur surely is, but then I'd say Spinosaurus isn't anymore. The problem is then, with Velociraptor you can't see if it's common or scientific. In Velociraptor's case, I'd go for italics al the time.Phlebas 17:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
To italicize an English plural is just bad style, since italicization is reserved for foreign/Latin words and emphasis. In writing, it'd really odd if we go half-half (Velociraptors), but it wouldn't sound strang in speech. I believe the convention is like: "There are eleven individuals/specimens of Velociraptor fallax." --Menchi 05:57, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
What if the number is unknown? 'Billy and Eric are attacked by Pteranodons.' Keeping it singular really sounds awkward and incorrect. So the convention doesn't really hold out...Phlebas 17:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Menchi is correct in assuming Velociraptors is an English word, italicised. I was meaning it was incorrect because it was a Latin word made into an English plural. Either way: not done. Although Menchi suggests a good way around the problem, it would be correct to say: "Billy and Eric were attacked by Panthera leo"; that does not sound at all awkward to me—it states the species they were attacked by, leaving the number of individual attackers unstated (=one or more). Using the scientific name instead of a common name (lion or lions) suggests that the whole point of the sentence is the identification of the attacking species, and not anything about numbers or other details of the attack. The sentence "Billy and Eric are attacked by Pantheras" would be interepreted as an attack by more than one species of Panthera since it is the genus that is awkwardly pluralized. This sentence would not be awkward or ambiguous to me: "Billy and Eric watched as several large Panthera leo approached their camp" - Marshman 17:43, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thank you. That cleared some things up. And it shows the necessity of using the (anglicised) common names instead of scientific ones (else you are referring to the genus). That is something I have trouble with. I was on an italicising spree the last days. What is your opinion on italicising every occurence of a singular name (i.e. is every scientific name part of the English dictionary)? Phlebas 19:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
No necessity, just differences in form. You may feel that "Billy and Eric watched as several large Panthera leo approached their camp" is awkward, but it really is not; it looks perfectly normal to me because I use species names in writing on a daily basis. You expect English to be worded a certain way; putting in latinized terms changes that. Also, you need to be clear about the difference between a genus name and a species name (both would be italicised, however). You are refering to the genus only if you use just the genus name, as in many of your examples above. I avoided that by using a species name (Panthera leo, for example). Not sure what your question is about "part of the English dictionary" ? Scientific names are latinized for the very reasons that 1) no country can claim Latin as its own and 2) therefore it is essentially an international language and all countries use the latin scientific name; anglicizing is not a consideration. - Marshman 04:57, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
>You may feel that 'Billy and Eric watched as several large Panthera leo approached their camp' is awkward...
I really don't feel that's awkward . Neither does 'Billy and Eric were attacked by Panthera leo'. What does feel awkward is 'Billy and Eric are attacked by Smilodon.'
Again, becauase you are just using a genus name, the sentence really does not make sense. To be attacked by "Smilodon" is to be atacked by what?...all the species of Similodon? Smilodon is not an entity in the sense of a single animal, it is just a genus name; essentially a catagory.
It isn't clearly stated whether there is one or more than one. In this case I want to refer to a specific species in the Smilodon genus (ie. not specified which species it is (bad science-fiction)). And in this book they are attacked by several smilodons. That's what I mean with necessity, since Smilodons refers to (as you say) more than one member of the genus, so smilodons should best be used.
Stated that way is somewhat like saying "He was run over by objects of transportation" when what was intended was a car or train or something. Do not use Smilidon, but use smilidon instead.
>Velociraptor used as a common name, would likely best be pluralized as velociraptors...This is what I meant with 'part of the English dictionary' - Phlebas 23:04, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I'd agree. If you use a common name, you can us an English plural - Marshman 04:22, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fixed Vandalism

Just a heads up for everyone, I did a minor edit to the page to remove an obvious bit of vandalism ("Ms. Stanley loved Godzilla" was written next to a note about the T-Rex), as well as a bit of vandalism on the talk page ("Max was Here"). 65.54.97.151 14:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, so did I. I removed "poop" and 'i liky poop" from two parts of the page.

Me too, Ashton Carter, various other crap.

[edit] Comment found on page

The following comment by 132.162.218.70 was found in the history section of the article: "did charles darwin's theory of evolution change this system's usage at all? dhull@oberlin.edu" All questions like this belong on an article's talk page. I reverted the article back to the previous edit. --Cory Kohn 16:13, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing Page?

It may be me, but at first glance this page is quite confusing. It should have a short description of binomial nomenclature at the top, along with its inventor (Linneaus), followed by the table of contents, etc. I think the rules of the naming should go in its own section, further down the page. Dachshund2k3 22:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A line removed by a User:Brya sock that may be reinserted--let editors decide.

This line was removed by a User:Brya sock puppet. It may or may not belong in the article:

"Note that this is a modern convention: Carolus Linnaeus always capitalized the specific descriptor, and up to the early 20th century it was common to capitalize the specific descriptor if it was based on a proper name. Although not correct according to modern practices, a capitalized specific descriptor is sometimes still used in non-scientific literature based on older sources."

KP Botany 03:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Just took a quick look at a few pages of L.'s Species Plantarum; he often used caps but not always, quite a few are lower case (seemingly randomly, including some from proper names) - MPF 23:10, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
In fact, he capitalized all sorts of other things too, as a Swedish user of Latin in the 18th century he may have been influenced to capitalize all nouns. Latin was not very fixed in the use of capital letters in the 18th century among Europeans, and neither was Botanical Latin. Brya's too often inaccurate, so I appreciate your taking the time to check this--it should remain out of the article. In general most of her assertions need checked or fact tagged or deleted. KP Botany 23:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additional merges

Binary name and Binomen should also be merged & redirected here. MrDarwin 17:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Linking the levels of the hierarchy, redundant, but let's leave it, please.

I like the last addition by an anon IP, to link the various levels of the hierarchy where they are mentioned in a list in order. Please don't revert this. Thanks. KP Botany 18:26, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Binomials different for botany. Really?

"in botany, on the other hand, the specific epithet is written usually all in lower case but can, extremely rarely, be written with an initial capital. For example, Narcissus papyraceus" Funny, I don't see that this is the case. I have never come across this before. If anyone can cite a reference, please do so, otherwise it should be removed. This sort of affirmation only perpetuates ignorance about Latin binomials amongst gardeners and the owners of garden centres and, tragically, some publishers of national newspapers and periodicals who continue to doggedly use uppercase specific names, especially where a proper noun is involved: eg. Buddleia Davidii, Berberis Darwinii - Togidubnus 20:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

That is the way it was done in the past, new rules were adopted a few years back, so many commonly used books that are used as references by gardeners and others have species listed with caps.

lets see, here are some names that I come across when i glance threw a much used refrence text from the early 1900's Astragalus Drummondii, Astrogalus Robbinsii, Astragalus Hypoglottis, Biscuullaria Cucullaria ect I would say that about one out of five names has caps for the species name. It was done this way in the 1950's too since my major field reference for plants for Eastern North America by Gleason also has caps. Hardyplants 23:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] cool

what is a scientific Name? i have no idea! i forgot my science book in school and now im screwed. help me

[edit] cool

what is a scientific Name? i have no clue! i forgot my science book in school and now im screwed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.12.124.164 (talk) 00:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Uncaught vandalism

I reverted back to an edit by User:Kingdon, as there is a lot of uncaught vandalism. I don't have time to edit it. KP Botany 02:00, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Botanical capitals

I have very little knowledge of this subject, but surely this example of a capitalised species is not right, in that it is not capitalised? Could anyone with the knowledge supply a correctly capitalised specific epithet?

   "* In botany, on the other hand, the specific epithet is written usually all in lower case but can, extremely rarely, be written with an initial capital.

   For example, Narcissus papyraceus "

Many thanks Millichip (talk) 10:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out (and also see the discussion further up the page under "Binomials different for botany. Really?"). Upon doing a bit of searching on google books, the first reference was for zoology, and as far as I can figure out, this is a matter of old versus new, not botany versus zoology. I've rewritten the text with some cites, which perhaps is not the last word, but it feels so much better to have references there. As for an example, since it is only an older usage, I left out the example. But if people think words like "specific name" (or specific epithet) are too abstract and should be clarified with an example, that's OK with me too. Kingdon (talk) 14:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)