Talk:Big Pun

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He is most often praised for his complex rhyme scheme, unceasing rhythm, and incredibly relentless flow and breath control, despite his immense size.

WTF does this mean? is this a joke? an insult? a truth statement?

no its not a joke, its true. listen to a song of pun's.--Mjp797 15:25, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Regardless, there's nothing wrong with that sentence, whatever your personal opinion of him is. It says he had incredible breath control despite his large size. A factual and objective statement.

"same breath as 2pac or Biggie"? Pun is a rap legend but few outside the Latino Hip Hop community see him.

"Pun is a rap legend but few outside the Latino Hip Hop community see him." Say what? Pun is world known and has been for years. He's even a legend in the Hip Hop community here in Denmark.Marxistviking 22:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)



a lot of new york rappers talk about him from juelz santana to mos def

Big Pun, Biggie, 2Pac, and Big L, due to their deaths, are often mentioned in the same breath. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't know. jglc | t | c 8 July 2005 14:39 (UTC)

Don't forget Eazy-E :) --Taurus8 sam 04:10, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] full a clipse

i know cuba and seis where in the crew with pun but was prospect for sure in there? can anyone confirm?

[edit] Big Pun Forever

Although this site says "Wikipedia may use it" note that the author does not grant a GFDL compliant license - though it is arguable that he/she intended to he definately did not - which is what is required for contributions to be made to wikipedia. I think it would be fair to ask the author or use it as a reference for verifiability. But there is no reason to wholesale use the bio from there. Trödel•talk 02:56, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quote

I took out a very positive quote about Big Pun - but would be open to including it or at least part of that. Trödel•talk 01:50, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing section "Rivalry" from article

I removed this stuff as there is some dispute as to whether this should be in the article - it also could by a copyvio. Can the editors wanting to include this please provide some references Trödel 22:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rivalry

The problems between 50 Cent and Big Pun's friend and mentor Fat Joe go back to altercations Big Punisher himself had with 50 Cent. Big Pun even went as far as deriding 50 Cent on his song "My Turn" on his second album Yeeeah Baby. The issues between Big Pun and Fiddy were said to have started when 50 Cent rapped about robbing Big Pun in his song "How To Rob" on his unreleased album Power of the Dollar. Big Pun responded to 50 Cent's lyrics on the final verse of his song "My Turn" by warning 50 Cent that he would "blow" Fiddy's "motherfuckin' head off".

There is also the feud, or "beef", between Big Pun and Jay-Z. The story, though never verified, goes as follows: Jay-Z was performing drunk at a New York club (the name of which has never been confirmed) when Big Pun, Fat Joe, and Cuban Link got on stage and told Jay-Z to get off, so that Terror Squad could perform their set. It was then said that a drunken and angered Jay-Z punched Fat Joe and was then knocked on the head with a bottle of champagne by Pun. After the altercation, Big Pun and Jay-Z were said to have shot several subliminal disses at each other before Pun's premature death. On Pun's hit single "100%" from his sophomore album Yeeeah Baby, Pun rapped:

“ ...whateva you the body
that chose to be the dumb nigga at the party
Too much Bacardi started speakin' dumb
Then you tried to snuff Joe - must have been Puerto Rican rum
That's the hardcore, two years a sophomore
Takes years to earn a pair of Terror Squad balls
So get lost or take one...		 ”

which many Hip Hop critics say not only was a dissent at Jay-Z, but also meant to clarify the whole New York-club-dispute rumor. Another part of the story is that Big Pun's debut album Capital Punishment was nominated for a 1999 Best Rap Album Grammy, yet lost that award to Jay-Z's Vol. 2: Hard Knock Life album, which could possibly have sparked Pun's initial dislike of Jay-Z.

There's no reason to have a rivalry section. 50 Cent dissed countless artists on "how to rob", you mean to say that he has rivalries with Brian Mcknight, Puffy, Slick Rick, Rza, Heavy D and Kirk Franklin? He makes one reference to Pun out of a dozen people, and Pun makes one reference back, and that was the end of it. If it was a rivalry, Cuban Link (Pun's best friend) wouldn't have asked Game to be on his album when he was down with G-Unit (and when G-Unit thought about signing Link).

The Jay-Z rumor is made up. The fact that that you start the paragraph off by saying that its a story that has never been verified is reason alone to leave it out. Its an old rumor. I know its not true, but feel free to try to find citations for it somewhere (you wont because there was no rivalry or incident). I'm going to continue removing the rivalry section if you add it, wikipedia isn't a rumor mill.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ITg8odSA0s <---go there....'Brooklyn niggas is hard, except Jay-Z' - Big Pun Recently released video of Pun and the whole Terror Squad chillin together...

[edit] Time Of Death

Does anyone find it interesting that Big Pun died the same day he was going to get his surgery done. Then his wife gets on a DVD talking about that he use to beat her up and try to damge his image. She also makes a statement on the DVD saying that she thought about killing him after she got pistol whipped. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.38.223.250 (talk • contribs) .

Sorry but that sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, I suppose if you isolated and looked at those circumstances together you might think theres foul play, but I honestly think that either A. shes just trying to get attention or maybe reparations from his family(?) or B. there could be some basis for his claims, im not saying Big Pun is a wifebeater but although he was a great rapper he was only human. To me there are too many 'what ifs' to start speculating if she had something to do with his death. -scass

[edit] Weight

The comment below was left in the article - I tried to incorpate the information. --Trödel

(Note: I'm not sure who originally wrote this, but Pun was born on November 10, not November 9. He was also never on a Raekwon album, but he did collaborate with him more than once. Finally, Pun did not have a weight problem all his life, there was a point in the early '90s when he was thin and muscular.)

[edit] Birth date

Comment moved from article to here --Trödel 02:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

(Note: I'm not sure who originally wrote this but Pun was born on November 10, not November 9. Also he was never on a Raekwon album.)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tainted Drifter (talk • contribs)

Somebody posted it back there. I just deleted it VelocityEX 8:16 July 2 2006 (UTC)

IN THE ALBUM BOOK TO "YEEEAH BABY" IT STATES PUN'S BIRTHDAY AS 11/10/71.


[edit] Legacy

"Big Pun is considered among the last real gangsta rappers and rappers in general, along with rappers such as DMX. before the Public attention turned to other rap genres such as hip-pop, dirty south rap, and the Eminem/50 Cent/G-Unit era."

This statement is heavily biased and is totally personal opinion. Big Pun and DMX are/were rap artists with plenty of popularity and acclaim but they are just 2 out of many, that they are the 'last real gangsta rappers and rappers in general' is an opinion, and has no place on the page. Also, what exactly is this 'Eminem/50 Cent/G-Unit era" ?? These artists have enjoyed popularity in mainstream culture, but I hardly think their fame represents an era of hip hop music.

Big Pun wasn't even a 'gangsta' rapper. He was known for his lyricism and flow, and though he did rap about the typical cliche's, he can't be considered a 'gangsta' rapper. Also, what the hell does DMX have to do anything here? He's a legend and one of the greatest for his lyrical compelexity, and so by talking about him being a 'gangsta' rapper, is just taking away from his legacy, and isn't the truth.

[edit] Hmm

Pun is my 2nd favorite Rapper of all time. I can only put Nas over him, and that's mainly cause he was in the game longer and has a lot more albums. Pun could destroy anyone lyrically. Also, "Capital Punishment" is top 5 for me.--Tainted Drifter 03:44, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that's great! How is that going to improve this article? Angrymansr 17:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Big Puns Birthday

Big Puns Birthday is November 9. Not November 10.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=8833 http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0700570/

^^^^

Theres Proof (and I don't mean the one from D12). November 9th (without the "TH" words, just trying to say it how I'm saying it now) is his birthday. They showed it after his video.

So? There's also 'proof' saying his birthday is November 10th. Look in the album book to "Yeeeah Baby".--Tainted Drifter 19:59, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

can anyone confirm that another pun album is being considered?

[edit] Comment moved here

I've moved the following here from the lead for discussion:

He is noted as one of rap's premier lyricists.[1]

Leaving aside the "noted as" and "premier", which would need rewording, the source doesn't really back up the comment; first, the comment implies wide agreement rather than a single copywriter's puff, and secondly, I can't see anything that says more than that the writer in question thinks that he's a "legendary lyricist" — he could be that and still be the second or third best.

In any case, is the lead the best place for something like this? I'd have said that it belongs (when cleaned up and given a proper source) somewhere in the main text. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 18:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Tupac is mentioned as one of the greatest rappers of all time in the intro, in the same way that Big Pun is renowned as a lyricist. I'll find more sources if necessary. But it is POV not to mention what the vast majority of hip hop fans feel.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Yanksta x (talk • contribs) 22:55, 15 April 2007
No, it isn't (see WP:NPOV and WP:CITE. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 08:58, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnicity in lead

Per WP:MOSBIO, I have removed ethnicity from the lead and placed it further into the article. Does anybody think differently? Are we treated people of Puerto Rican descent differently regarding ethnicity? Thank you. --70.109.223.188 (talk) 15:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)