Talk:Biblical references to incest

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Hmm. The use of a hyphen in "daughter-ers" in the article suggests that this was pasted from a Web site somewhere. So I did a search, and found that the text is taken word-for-word from http://www.darkhistory.com/bible.shtml -- however, since the majority of the text is Biblical quotes, perhaps defenders of this subject may want to edit the article and change it around so that it won't have to be removed. --Modemac 14:00, 13 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Because incest refers to sex forbidden, is what is referred to in the Bible incest? After all, a crime (as sex with certain people is in most cultures) legal cannot be a crime. This is not to say that isn't immoral, it's just a matter of perspective on the morality.-Adrian

Check the spelling on "Micah/Milcah": it's listed the former way before the quote, and the latter way after. --zandperl

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[edit] Shem

Did Shem, son of Adam, commit incest? It would appear so, since the only women would have been Eve or Shem's sisters.

Shem was not the son of Adam, but of Noah. There is no reason to believe he, or anyone after the flood, committed strict incest, although there would surely be much first cousin intermarriage among Noah's grandchildren. john k 04:27, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Try Cain and Abel.--Anomie 15:45, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I think he was thinking of Seth. Abel was killed by Cain, presumably before fathering any children. Captain Packrat (talk) 22:11, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] This page sucks

I mean this quite seriously. This is especially true if it's a copyvio, but even if it's not, it's awful. Among other things, until just now it claimed that Sarah was Abraham's sister based on what she told Pharaoh, which, in context, is clearly a lie. This whole thing should be rewritten from the ground up. john k 04:27, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

This page is not wrong in claiming that Sarah and Abraham were related. This page has been heavily edited since it was begun; it has already been rewritten from the ground up. What specific concerns do you have? Rmhermen 13:48, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
Sarah was indeed Abraham's sister (half-sister technically). Read the book. DJ Clayworth 13:51, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
I have no idea if they were related, but the Bible doesn't clearly say they were. Genesis 11:29: "And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah." Genesis 11:31: "And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife;" (you'd think that if Sarai was Terah's daughter, it would say so!). The story in Genesis 12, with the Pharaoh, is clearly suggesting that she is not Abram's sister - there is no indication there that she is actually his sister. The story in Genesis 20, you are right, does seem to say she is his half-sister. But this is Abraham trying to get out of a bad situation with Abimelech. Given that there is no other evidence that she is his sister, and that she is very clearly not described as Terah's daughter earlier on, I see no reason to think he is being honest with Abimelech. Unless you can get around "Terah took...Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife." BTW, I note that our article on Sarah says that she is traditionally viewed to be Abraham's niece. This should probably be mentioned.

As to the article being crappy:

  1. A minority of people who question the Biblically-derived incest taboo, paradoxically often use these references (out of context to the rest of the Bible) to support arguments that the taboo is outdated and antiquated.
    Why is this paradoxical? Wouldn't seeming references in the Bible to incest being okay be naturally used to support arguments against the incest taboo (which can hardly be described as Biblically-derived - it is in the Bible, but the incest taboo is pretty universal and goes well beyond the Bible).
  2. Cousin marriage - I see no reason to get into this at all. Most people who've gotten married throughout history have probably married first or second cousins, until quite recently. These instances are hardly unique enough to warrant detailed discussion.
  3. Surely this article is not just about Biblical stories that include incest in them. I can't think of any good reason why the Biblical injunction against incest isn't specifically discussed here, except that it wasn't in the original (anon?) contribution that started this article.

Beyond this, I will admit that the article isn't quite so bad as I thought. But that first sentence is genuinely awful (and comes straight from the anon). john k 14:41, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish definition of incest

In Jewish law it is not incest for two first cousins to marry. Nor is it incest for a woman to marry her father's brother. In historical times both sorts of marriage were contracted by the Rothschild family, observant Jews. (I am not certain about other cases; i.e.: woman & mother's brother, man & father's sister, man & mother's sister, half-siblings through the same father.) Some of the instances of "incest" in the bible given in the article are thus clearly in error, and I will correct them unless someone gives good reason not to do so. Too Old 04:36, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

    • woman & mother's brother permitted, other three cases prohibited. But this article does not mean to discuss incest in the bible according to Jewish law just incest (according to our culture) found in the bible. So in my opinion don't correct but it should be better explained in the article User:Ortho04:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to User:Ortho for the clarification. But the English Wikipedia is relevant to all english speakers, many of which (e.g. those in the UK) do not classify first-cousin marriage as incest, so "our culture" is an inappropriate characterization of it. Perhaps we could say "according to the most restrictive US law"? Too Old 05:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cain's wife?

The question comes up in religious discussions of where did Cain get his wife? He had to have taken one of his (unnamed in the Bible) sisters. Can this be mentioned in the article? It's not really a direct reference. Family Guy Guy 18:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)