Talk:Bezique
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I found the rules impossible to follow until I found out that once played, tricks are discarded face down. Hence, I've added that to the game description.
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[edit] Some questions about rules...
I've fallen in love with this little card game. It has more play and scope for tactics than other similar games. I do have some questions, though:
1. Can the Double Bezique be declared in two stage? In other words, I place my Queen of Spades and Jack of Diamonds on the table, receiving 40 points. Later in the game, I obtain the other Queen of Spades and Jack of Diamonds and add them to the existing ones. Do I receive 500 points for this? It seems disproportionate. Is it more likely that, to receive 500 points, all four cards have to be tabled together.
2. Can a meld be declared based on two existing and previously presented melds? For examples, I have four Jack on the table from a meld. I then present a King and Queen of Spades as a marriage. The next trick I win, can I declare a Bezique from the Jack of Diamonds and the Queen of Spades or does each meld always require at least one card that has not been part of a previous meld?
3. Lastly, is this game still popular in any parts of the world? I had not previously heard of it and there do not seem to be a great abundance of websites about. Did it die out with Winston Churchill?
- 1. Yes. It isn't really disproportionate: it is quite rare for one player to receive all four Bezique cards, let alone manage to hold onto the first three waiting for the fourth to appear. However, sources differ as to whether you can claim two separate, single Beziques as well as the double. David Parlett in his Dictionary of Card Games says you can't. Hubert Phillips says you can, but be aware that your opponent will attempt to stop you winning any more tricks once you have both pairs on the table!
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- Just a further clarification. Your first bezique needs to still be shown on the table (i.e. if you have already played one of the cards in your first bezique to a trick, then you cannot claim a double bezique). If you get a second bezique you can either claim a single bezique and then, after winning another trick, claim a double bezique, or you can claim a double bezique straight away, but then cannot claim a second single bezique. I've had a double bezique once in many, many games. I claimed my second bezique and then won the very next trick with an Ace of trumps and claimed my double bezique.
Steveflan 11:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
- 2. Yes, a meld can consist entirely of cards already on the table, and a card can be used in more than one meld, provided all the melds are different. In your example, yes, you can claim the Bezique, but if you pick up the second King of Spades you cannot "re-marry" the Queen. You would need the second Queen of Spades for this.
- 3. I don't know. I don't know anyone who plays it, whom I have not taught!
MarkC77 19:42, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Rules query
The rules here, and on the BBC website link, state that quartets must contain one card of each suit. However, Hubert Phillips and David Parlett, in their books, allow four cards regardless of suit. I have also read other books in the past that agree about this.
If nobody contradicts me here within a week or two then I'll change the list accordingly. If the "one of each suit" rule turns out to be a variant then I think this should be listed under variants and the main table should say "any four".
MarkC77 18:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with you all my books say 'any 4' ... I will make the change since it has been 7 months since you suggested it Abtract 01:39, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Simplification and Wikifying
As you will see I have simplified the first section but I haven't touched the "instruction" section although I feel it is not what is needed in an encyclopedia. It is too much like an instruction manual for children. I think it ought to be removed but I won't do it without agreement from others. What do you think. Abtract 22:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Historical Rules
I have a bezique set at home which dates from around the time of Winston Churchill and was made by a company called Cavendish.
According to the rules provided by them, the differences between the rules currently shown in the article are as follows:
Bezique (♠Q and ♦J) - this remains the same even if ♠ or ♦ are the trump cards. The change to ♣Q and ♥J if ♠ or ♦ are trumps is a variant on the game.
Four cards of the same rank - these can be any suit. They don't have to be four different suits (although the article correctly gives this as a variant on the game).
Scoring - Tricks that are won and include an Ace or Ten are scored immediately (i.e. 10 points, or 20 points if the trick includes 2 Aces, 2 Tens or an Ace and a Ten). They are also scored in the last eight tricks.
Declaring melds - A player can declare any number of melds he so wishes, but may only score one when he wins a trick (i.e. a player can declare a bezique with ♠Q and ♦J and may also declare a marriage with a ♠K at the same time, but may only score one of the declarations, with the other declaration being scored after the player wins another trick).
Melding rules - Declared cards can be declared into other melds, provided "the subsequent combination is of a different class, or is a superior one of the same class". The classes given are:
i-Bezique and Double Bezique
ii-Marriage and Sequence
iii-Four equal cards
For example, A King once married cannot be married again (same class); but may be used to form either a sequence (superior combination of the same class) or to form four Kings (different class). Similarly a King a Queen declared in a sequence, cannot then be declared as a marriage (inferior combination of the same class).
The game is normally played to 1,000 and the first player to reach 1,000 wins the game (in some cases this may be done by winning a trick with an Ace).
Steve Flanagan 09:17, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
