User talk:Beth Wellington

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Beth Wellington is a Blacksburg, Virginia-based poet and journalist. She is a contributing editor to the New River Free Press, a book reviewer for the Roanoke Times and a member of the Southern Appalachian Writers Cooperative (SAWC). From 1980 to 1997, she was the founding Executive Director of New River Community Sentencing, Inc. in Christiansburg, Virginia and its predecessor, New River Community Action's Community Sentencing Program. You can find her blog on culture and politics, The Writing Corner, [1] here].

Contents

[edit] User Page

Correct placement--You should put this on your user page, SqueakBox 23:51, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! I copied it over there. I didn't realize it was in the wrong place until tonight when I couldn't find my page when I clicked on the link in the history of another page I'd edited. --Beth Wellington 00:57, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

User box thingie--Actually, Vaoverland put it up for me. I can put one on your page, if you like. As far as the West Virginia article goes, I've been doing some work on the sports, cities, and history sections, along with work on some of the subpages. I've caught your name popping up on articles on my watchlist. Keep up the good work. Youngamerican 03:38, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

youngamerican (talk) 22:33, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

It works. As you get more experienced with wikipedia, you can change the colors on the box. I am probably going to change the colors from yellow to old gold, so it will have West Virginia colors. youngamerican (talk) 22:35, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

colors--If the color name doesnt work, look up a color on wikipedia and find the "hex triplet" id. The one for lilac is #C8A2C8. Use that instead of the name. Hope that helps. youngamerican (talk) 21:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

How to archive talk--There are instructions here. Then just create the links at the top however you want them using regular Wiki link syntax. If you like what I did you can just copy it, of course. Make sense? Crunch 12:16, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks--Hello, Thank you for your compliment on my User Page. The concept was mine, but believe me, I had to reach out for the technical help to make it happen. My work (in many ways, life) has been sitting across from flesh and blood people trying to help them untangle the emotional knots they have found themselves in. There I'm comfortable because it's familiar to me. It's taking me longer to be comfortable sitting across from a machine that is essentially 1s & 0s. I am comfortable with the information within Wikipedia, where my task is to extract that information and, in my own way, I hope improve on it. I saw that message regarding Wiki e-mail & wondered what it was wanting me to do & why. The wetter my feet get at this, the more comfortable I feel with the structure, the more I will be able to contribute to the content. Right now I'm still learning. Hope we can connect again. Michael David 13:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Signing posts--Hi Beth. Per the userbox at the top of this page, you can sign your posts using ~~~~. Signing someone else's posts is a bit more tricky using the {{subst:unsigned|username|date time}} template. Garglebutt / (talk) 23:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] General notes on editing

ISBN: Did you know if there's a colon after an ISBN it doesn't do wiki-magic ISBN: 1123321312 vs ISBN 2134124242 ? Rich Farmbrough 00:24 25 April 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Stanley Williams

Thanks for letting me know. Someone has already fixed it. The perpetrator is probably a well known vandal. Rich Farmbrough 16:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. Replied on my talk page. -EDM 18:39, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

By the way (in reference to your 12/13 blog post), the record is that he was seen to mouth a threat to the jurors after the verdict - or at least words that could be interpreted as a threat. It's at 13654-55 in the slip opinion you link to. I fully agree with you, though, that news reports of legal proceedings, particularly in emotional cases like this one, typically get the legal bits wrong. -EDM 20:20, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I think its most accurate to say, "mouth after the verdict words that some jurors interpreted as a threat" I didn't get my whole blog entry up, yet since i have been working on the Wikipedia article and one for the New River Free Press. --Beth Wellington 21:13, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually there seem to have been two separate comments, which for brevity we can call the "sons of bitches" comment and the "mother fuckers" comment. Both are discussed in the 9th Circuit opinion. Neither is appropriate to appear in the article verbatim. WP:NOT a transcript of proceedings or a play-by-play (though you wouldn't know it from this sad excuse for an encyclopedia article). -EDM 22:02, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

POV--Hi there. In this edit, you inserted the sentence "And this is actually really sad. Rosa was a hero. This man was a murderer." That point of view can't be put into Wikipedia articles, according to the neutral point of view policy. I've removed that sentence. Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 21:33, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi! Not I. This change was made by http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stanley_Williams&oldid=31373043#Aftermath. It was reversed to my version and then somehow reintroduced!

No problem. It seemed out of character with the rest of your edits (on first glance), so I assumed that with multiple people editing multiple versions, it slipped in. Probably got removed, readded, and removed but you might have been editing the readded version without realizing it. Or something like that. :) Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 22:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I try really hard to edit to change POV errors back to neutral and to use verifiable sources.
(I can't resist) Except for the "really sad" part, the remainder of that comment is straight factual, according to the respective Wikipedia articles. -EDM 22:36, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Movement to impeach George W. Bush

If you're going to add external links, don't try and pipe them; the 1st space after the 1st continuous text element delimits the end of the URI and everything after that is displayed as link text. 68.39.174.238 20:39, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


User_talk:Reaverdrop#Movement_to_impeach_Bush - Thanks Beth - I don't have time now either to do aught except jot this note, I am pulling an all-nighter for a client. Rah-rah for a fellow book reviewer though! I was book review editor on my law review. If I could do that full time, that would be the greatest job in the world. - Reaverdrop 03:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] NPOV tag

I don't have a suggestion, but I have removed it. :) Rich Farmbrough. 22:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sago Mine Disaster

Thanks. You're doing a good job, too. No, I'm not in W. Virginia and, have never even been there. It's a beautiful state. Thanks for the link. Most of my sources are national media (NY Times, CNN, etc. ) though I also used The Inter-Mountain a bit. Actually a lot of my editing has been copyediting which doesn't necessarily require factual knowledge! Crunch 02:33, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm just a news junkie and I got interested in the story and then was drawn here and started workng on the story. I don't know how much time I'll have to stay with it though in the next few days (busy with the day job, etc.), other than possibly reverting a few vandals. Yes, Phelps is a freak. He doesn't even seem to have a point of view anymore, other than to protest at prominent funerals. I took the first stab at editing that down, because it was perhaps somewhat notable. Looks like someone else came by and decided to cut it out entirely. Crunch 02:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sago Mine vandal

Ah, no problem. That's our job. :) Titoxd(?!? - help us) 04:56, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Reverted to your last version. Titoxd(?!? - help us) 02:33, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I sure know about Kate's Tool. That's what started everything. :) The best one so far is Interiot's Tool, by the way... Titoxd(?!? - help us) 02:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Link format

Hi again Beth Wellington, More good work on the Sago mine story! I'm going through the whole article and cleaning it up and I have a few questions for you:

  1. What do you think about moving and/or copying some of the detail on Randal McCloy's treatment to Randal McCloy. There's more info on 2006 Sago Mine disaster about McCloy than there is on the McCloy page and maybe it should be the other way around. I'm sending this directly to you rather than posting it on the talk page because it seems you've been really involved in that particularly area, but I'll post it there as well.
  1. I noticed you're using lots of external links throughout your writing. I'm not exactly sure of the Wiki style for that, though you use a lot more than most editors. It could just be a matter of personal taste. But one thing I'm pretty sure of is that when you add an external link that displays as just a numbered superscipt you're supposed to also add the full reference at the bottom in the References list (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28links%29). I'm not sure you've been doing this. Crunch 02:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Cool about the footnotes. I think Wikipedia is a bit hard to figure out. There are actually tons of rules, depending on which WP:POL page you read. Crunch 03:51, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citing sources

I think you're right, other editors are under-citing. I did some editing today on Ray Nagin -- I haven't checked back it's probably an active article lately and I've started to add a lot of citations following your model! Crunch 22:51, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] West Virginia

I'd love to help out but I'm not going to have much time for Wiki til at least next week. I know I keep saying this and then here I am, but no promises, and I'm really not an expert on citations. Perhaps if we just make our best effort someone else will come along and make it spiffy. Crunch 03:42, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lyndon LaRouche associate Paul Gallagher

Lyndon LaRouche associate Paul Gallagher is mentioned in some lists of the convicted, but I can't recall where I saw the precise charge. It was part of the LaRouche prosecution so it was most likely a form of mail fraud or conspiracy. Some folks were sentenced to much longer terms than LaRouche, IIRC. Cheers, -Will Beback 11:46, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

FYI, this page seems to have as much detail as I've found anywhere. [2]. Cheers, -Will Beback 23:24, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Beth, regarding the conviction of LaRouche associates, the book Railroad, available from the same people also includes FBI and other US government documentation. I know most people think they need other sources to confirm certain things and I fully agree in many respects. There are certain times, such as with a new discovery, one must study for one's self whether the discovery is real or a fraud. I like this method with everything, not only physical science. I have looked at the Railroad book. Its good. Have fun doing your research. I don't doubt that you do a much better job at journalism than the staff of the Wall Street Urinal. Ciao, James NOTE: This was posted by Nemesis1981 10:57, July 10, 2006

[edit] Federation of American Scientists

I believe those projects would require someone a bit more in-depth regarding their subjects, though. But I guess I can write up some basic info and a header/introduction bit, sure. I'll give it a shot. :) :: DarkLordSeth 13:36, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leonard N. Stern

I have reverted the "coporate office" edit, and made Leonard N. Stern a redirect. Can you look and see if there's any useful info to be salvaged from the corporate version? Rich Farmbrough. 11:32, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I've cycled the two articles (move one to temp, two to one, temp to two, and fix up redirect, delete temp). Rich Farmbrough. 23:13, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I've left her another message. Please let me know if it happens again, I'll temporarily block.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rich Farmbrough (talk • contribs) March 8, 2006 12:46.

I have blocked the anon IP, and left warnings on the other users pages that have done this in the past. Best wishes, Rich Farmbrough 21:03 14 April 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Leonard B. Stern

Simply go to the article and click the "move" tab at the top. Any problems, give me a shout. PS wait 'til WP is back from it's current problems. Rich Farmbrough. 16:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

No problem. I left a message for the user, who probably will understand after the Washington coverage why she shouldn't edit that page. Have you tried moving Leonard Stern (publisher)? I've put up a request for an article on [[[Hartz Mountain Industries]]. Rich Farmbrough. 22:32, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Beth, you've done well! Now go to Leonard B. Stern and click on "What links here". You'll see that Leonard B. Stern (writer and publisher) is a redirect to LBS, which is fine, and that Leonard Stern (publisher) is a redirect to [[Leonard B. Stern (writer and publisher)] which is not ("double redirects" don't work - deliberately I think to avoid long chains or loops or redirects). To fix this cut and paste "Leonard B. Stern" into the Leonard Stern (publisher) redirect. Easy peasy. Rich Farmbrough. 22:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

P.S. My grandfather had Roger Price's book Droodles it used to make me laugh! Rich Farmbrough.

Yes that looks right. Droodle shows a couple of examples of what was in the book - Stern published it. Rich Farmbrough. 23:46, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John Dufresne

I didn't actually create the stub - it was written by an anonymous user. I had just made sure it was of stub quality by wikifying and adding a tag to the contributed materal. -- Grunt 15:44, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NSA warrantless surveillance

RWR8189 desires to move NSA warrantless surveillance controversy to NSA Terrorist Surveillance Program controversy. A poll according to the procedure for a contested move is being taken at Talk:NSA warrantless surveillance controversy#Support or Oppose Name Change. You may wish to vote support to change to the new name or oppose to leave the name unchanged. Metarhyme 04:55, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't count where you put it. You have to either scroll all the way down to the Support or Oppose Name Change section or use the Talk: link I gave to get there, edit that and vote below Nomen Nescio. Metarhyme 12:41, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Think nothing of it. I wanted those footnotes templated so I did it. Footnotes should go past 150 shortly - an overwhelming number. Every time I suggest a daughter article it seems like there's a POV attack, so I'm trying not to be concerned about length. Metarhyme 09:38, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, you can see what happened an to one idea at Legality of warrantless surveillance - that's the upshot of the all the fuss archived at Talk:NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy/Neutral_Point_Of_View_is_not_The_Truth. I decided to append the legal section to the fork but otherwise just leave it alone. Then came the drive from the other side to Rove the title. If the lefty daughter, at which the righties looked and laughed, were invaded with NPOV, then NSA warrantless would be counterattacked with POV I expect. No attacks means I've got time to scope out what Steve Ballmer is up to. In a document with almost two hundred footnotes he told the European Union he's sincere in making Windows® more open. I'll bet NSA warrantless can have even more footnotes than that! So I'm trying not to be concerned about length. Metarhyme 09:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
If you know about more than Hoekstra's letter (which is mentioned in the House Intelligence section) and want to put something in, I urge you to keep your addition short and neutral. A fuller treatment could go in the CRS article, which has plenty of room. Metarhyme 06:38, 25 February 2006 (UTC) That was a very good, concise NPOV edit! Thanks!

Well, I solicited shortening again. Nareek responded at Talk:NSA warrantless surveillance controversy#Article Length with a general call to slash without discussion. Metarhyme 06:50, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I think "the deliberate choice of a modern elite to foster hatred and fear to keep itself in power" (a quote from Leave None to Tell the Story: Genocide in Rwanda) plays a key role - "masquerade of legitimacy" is another quote from the report. What to do about it? Expose it. Congress is inclined towards a bi-partisan effort to create judicial oversight of the Program. Poindexter's data mining concept (killed by Congress) funded DARPA contract F30602-03-C-0037 at PARC. This work could be applied to NSA, which would then have to convince a judge to order particular personal identity filters inactivated. Oversight created, 4th ammendment still kicking. That's optimistic. Metarhyme 06:49, 27 February 2006 (UTC) Gotcha - WP:CIVIL! (Sorry to be so slow.) I accept that "being polite would be untruthful" is an inadequate defense for incivility. I've used thugish right as well. Thanks for politely drawing my attention to this so that I can correct my misbehavior. Metarhyme 22:09, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wilbur Ross

I would leave this one where it is, unless there's another notable Wilbur Ross? The general rule is the article lives under the most common name, but uses the "correct" name internally - or the full name/style in the lead in. Regards, Rich Farmbrough. 18:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alberto Rios

Seems not to be a problem any more. Rich Farmbrough 11:31 28 February 2006 (UTC).

Howdy, not a problem, just place #REDIRECT [[page name here]] and save.Nmpenguin 16:55, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Working Families for Wal-Mart

I think that this one should be OK - I'll ask if everyone's happy to remove the POV. Rich Farmbrough 10:47 2 March 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Walmarting

Proposed deletion--Walmatring, I think is not a conspiracy! People who frequent AfD don't like neologisms, they see very many of them. I'm not sure if they're right in this case or not. Rich Farmbrough 10:47 2 March 2006 (UTC).

Thx for informing me on the matter. I already cast a vote. ;) --Maxl 14:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually it's 5 votes now to keep the article. The Voting has ended by now with "no consensus" as a result (as you probably noticed already). That means, for the moment the article is no longer on the "delete" list. I'd call that a success! :D --Maxl 16:40, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't remember editing the article...I've never heard of the term, but will stay out of the vote. Let me know if there is anything else I can do for you.--MONGO 11:32, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, it looks like you improved the article enough to save it from deletion...that is oftentimes viewed as a good thing. Roanoke? My family oftentimes would spend Thanksgiving dinner at the Hotel Roanoke or at The Homestead...this year it was the latter, but I didn't make it there. Nice area for sure. I'm mainly familiar with the northern VA area and northern Shenandoah Valley. Anyway, if you run into trouble....run...no, just ask me and I'll try to help...Wikipedia can be very odd at times.--MONGO 21:19, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, another neat place with good food is the General Lewis Inn located in Lewisburg, WV...fairly near to the Greenbriar. It's got a lot of antiques from the war of southern independence there...I'm a Montanan (born in Helena), but my the old man is from Covington, and my mother is from near Staunton. You're heading into the best season there in Virginia, the redbuds and all those flowers should be blooming soon. Happy editing!--MONGO 01:18, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Beth, I'm the Anthropology professor referred to in the links for this entry. I've attempted to fill out the definition of Walmarting a little based on my own reading of the (amazingly substantial) literature. I've striven for a NPOV, though I'm not entirely satisfied on this score and would welcome further interventions! best, Alan Aycock (aycock@uwm.edu) Note: The preceeding unsigned comment was added by--Aacock 07:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] J.C. Penney and J. C. Penney

J.C. Penney this is the usual solution short of a disambiguation page. Rich Farmbrough 11:57 8 March 2006 (UTC).

Yes, it's not ideal. No, the other Richard Farmbrough is a distant cousin, son of David Farmbrough one time Bishop of Bedford, I've not met him for about 25 years. There is, I believe a third one, who plays amateur sport. His IMDB page doesn't really do him credit, he's produced a lot more television than that (but in my mind's eye he's still about 10 years old). Rich Farmbrough 17:31 8 March 2006 (UTC).

[edit] 1969 Coal Mine Safety and Health Act

Well if you look here you will see at least some acts that have the word "Federal" have kept it in the article title. Are you saying that one of these articles is a WP:copyvio? Rich Farmbrough 13:52 9 March 2006 (UTC).

As I understand it all federal government work is public domain, this would include http://www.msha.gov. Incidentally there's nothing special about being an admin, except for the superpowers we're granted... Provided you're thick skinned enough to take any likley response, you can draw other editors attention to the errors of their ways. Of course we do it in a kind way (WP:BITE and WP:AGF), but as my brother remarked "There are a lot of crosspatches on Wikipedia, aren't there!" Regards, Richard.

[edit] Mine Safety and Health Act of 1977

Thanks for picking me up on the appropriate category. I was on New Pages patrol, focussing on getting uncategorised articles into cats. I wasn't quite sure where to put that one, but figured if I put it there, someone in-the-know would pick up on it. I figure it's best to put these things somewhere where they'll be noticed, rather than leave them to disappear into the quagmire. Cnwb 22:07, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Organized Labour

Hi Beth. I saw you added your name to the list at Organized Labour, so I thought I'd say hello. As I'm sure you noticed, it's still a pretty small project, so it's great to have another interested editor. Cheers. Chris.--Bookandcoffee 03:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ron Rash

Your ref problem was a /ref at the end of the article. Best wishes, Rich Farmbrough 21:03 14 April 2006 (UTC).

Hi there - for reasons beyond my control, the en.wikipedia database is no longer replicated to the toolserver. If this article is fairly new, it would be safe to assume that it is not in the database on the toolserver due to replication issues. Toolserver admins are trying to rectify the situation and I would recommend trying again in a few weeks time. Thanks for your interest. TDS (talk • contribs) 00:34, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

The quotes are showing up OK. I would think that the italics come form the template. Rich Farmbrough 11:44 15 April 2006 (UTC).


[edit] Wikiproject: countering systemic bias

Hi Mamawrites, I wonder if you might be able to help - I'm writing an article for openDemocracy about the Wikiproject:countering systemic bias. I'd like to get some quotes from Wikipedians about why they're involved, what they're working on and some other general issues. I'm particularly interested in talking to women who seem to be poorly represented even on this wikiproject. I wonder if you'd be willing to talk to me over email? Mine is daviddariusbijan@yahoo.co.uk

Thanks,

David

86.8.109.89 14:44, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maximilian von Spee

No idea, perhaps this is a challenge for User:SuggestBot's owner, User:ForteTuba? Rich Farmbrough 18:43 18 April 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Claudia Emerson

Guess that's sorted at the moment. Rich Farmbrough 21:19 22 April 2006 (UTC).

Well, that will give him something to do. Rich Farmbrough 11:22 23 April 2006 (UTC).


[edit] Dates

Hi Beth, what's the problem? Rich Farmbrough 22:19 29 April 2006 (UTC).

This is due to the way {{tl:cite}} works, which I don't fully agree with, but is no big deal. I've changed the first one, you'll see what I mean. Rich Farmbrough 12:42 1 May 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Folks you meet

Yes, there are many credible folks you'll meet in Wikipedia. Many academics, some wish to not disc;ose their expertise, preferring to edit articles unrelated to their training. I am in that category...I have ot made one edit tomy expertise, instead working on articles that take me back tomy past...land management. While working on the article Retreat of glaciers since 1850, I had the pleasure of working with one of the foremost glaciologists in the U.S., a telescope engineer, a doctor of philosophy (and a computer whiz) and a number of other folks that made the article a featured article...I wouldn't have been able to do this without their help. There are a number of promenient persons that edit here and any expert is always welcome so long as they abide by the principle of NPOV...in some circumstances, some experts have very strong opinions about things so it hasn't always worked out well. Good work and hope you are also doing well.--MONGO 05:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Criticism of Wal-Mart

Hi Beth,

a discussion has been going on about the cheap prices at WalMart. Maybe you'd like to say something, too, even though, strictly spoken, this is not exactly about the article. Also, there has been a request to change the name of the article. Please check it out! -Maxl 22:11, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Beth,

I understand you're quite busy. I'm still discussing with an user, RJII, and he seems to be a hard core capitalist and he doesn't understand that concessions have to be made in order to keep the economy running. I wonder if he's on WalMart's wage list. --Maxl 21:31, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wal-Mart

I hope my newly added comment clears things up. I deleted the section, as I said, after a) no one but r3m0t objected, and b) after he let more than a day pass without re-objecting. As I stated in my comment on the talk page, if anyone objects they can revert and I won't get into a revert war, I'll go on arguing. To me it looked like only r3m0t thought the section was worth keeping, and even he'd given up on it. Obviously I was wrong about the latter, but since no one but him has complained about the deletion I suspect I'm right about the former. --soto 10:47, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scott Shields

No idea, it could do with some content. Rich Farmbrough 18:53 3 June 2006 (UTC).


Please go ahead! Jarfingle 21:44, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AFD

As an AIW member please review Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of relationships with age disparity and please take a side.

[edit] Wilson Research

Why did you create this entry on WRS? ≈≈≈≈


[edit] Meat puppets

Regarding your recruitment, which was one of twenty made by a new user who's first and last edit was on one AfD he is admittedly linked to, you posted: "I'm curious as to why you would edit my talk page to delete a message."[3]

It is considered highly inappropriate or unacceptable to advertise Wikipedia articles that are being debated in order to attract users with known views and bias, in order to strengthen one side of a debate. It is also considered highly inappropriate to ask friends or family members to create accounts for the purpose of giving additional support. Advertising or soliciting meatpuppet activity is not an acceptable practice on Wikipedia. The arrival of multiple newcomers, with limited Wikipedia background and predetermined viewpoints arriving in order to present those viewpoints, rarely helps achieve neutrality and most times actively damages it, no matter what one might think. Wikipedia is not a place for mixing fact and opinion, personal advocacy, or argument from emotion. Controversial articles often need more familiarity with policy to be well edited, not less. If you feel that a debate is ignoring your voice, then the appropriate action is not to solicit others outside Wikipedia. Instead, avoid personal attacks, seek comments and involvement from other Wikipedians, or pursue dispute resolution. These are quite well tested processes, and are designed to avoid the problem of exchanging bias in one direction for bias in another.

[4] I hope that explains it for you.Nickieee 02:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining, Nickieee. Beth, I've also responded on User talk:Quarl just in case yet another editor is confused by or disagrees with what I did. —Quarl (talk) 2006-08-15 11:43Z

Thank you for your response. I am still troubled by someone editing my talk page by deletion, rather than by adding a comment. I agree that the tone on the query was problematic, and by the way, I haves seen worse, but I took that into account in my response on the AfD page. I do not think that because someone has the philosphy of inclusion, that constitutes the bias that is referred to in the response above yours.--Beth Wellington 16:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] International_Institute_of_Management

There's quite a debate on the deletion of this article and I've tried to verify what i could, change the tone a bit and weigh in to keep and improve. Could you look at what I've got there and see if the neutrality and verifiability tags are still needed? Also, if it merits keeping? As always, many thanks. Cheers,Your inclusionist pal in the U.S.--Beth Wellington 20:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment on the tags. It was deleted, but I restored it. The article was likewise deleted. Oh well--Beth Wellington 15:31, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

No probs. My comment wasn't deleted, though. Rgds Rich Farmbrough 11:39 19 August 2006 (GMT).

[edit] Please help

Hi! I got your username from the Association Inclusionist Wikipedians. I'm trying to work against a band of linkocrites (see en:User:cochese8). You look as if you're a valuable editor and I could really use some help [preserving] a great link. I would ask you to review the discussion and vote keep if you agree with the link's value. By the way, you're welcome to ask for my vote to keep any information on this website. Thanks for your help! Cochese8 17:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Democracy Data & Communications, LLC/Advocacy Campaign Team for Mining

Hi. I was using the National Mining Association article for links to coal stats and came across these two articles, one of which I tagged for different reasons. I suggest you may want to add something to DD&C to show its notability. As for the Advcacy article, I made a note on the talk page re: possibly merging into the National Mining Association article; it wasn't clear why two articles were needed but maybe I'm missing something.

By the way, nice work on the Sago Mine disaster -- you put in a lot of effort!

--A. B. 19:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

The Sixteen Ton Barnstar
presented to Beth Wellington for heavy work on the Sago Mine disaster and other mining articles
A. B. 19:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree to the edit counter opt-in terms

[edit] Re: edit counter

That edit counter doesn't work for English wikipedia currently. While it's down, please use Tool1 or one of the other edit counters that are currently working. --Interiot 21:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Your count is 1057 c. 4th November. Rich Farmbrough, 23:44 20 November 2006 (GMT).

[edit] Sago Mine Disaster

[edit] Blogger

Appears to be this guy http://www.aber.ac.uk/cla/archive/biopurdy.html . His blog made me laugh (your comment on my talk page got quoted).

[edit] Reverting a change

If you go to the "history" tab,and click one of the dates you get the version at that time. You can then edit this, and save it to get rid of vandalism.

Rich Farmbrough, 23:44 20 November 2006 (GMT).
I know of no way to get to a specific line, although I suppose a bit of javascript could be written: I use firefox "search - highlight" then scroll. Not ideal. Yes, you have to be able to walk away from online arguments, and real life ones coem to that! Rich Farmbrough, 17:12 21 November 2006 (GMT).

[edit] Second Wave Wikipedians

...it's been a while since I've visited my Wikipedia space. You wrote...

Thank you for the clear explaination. Another user identified himself as such and I wasn't sure what it meant...being a writer, rather than an EE or whatever.--Beth Wellington 05:47, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I am primarely a Wireless Network Engineer (yes EE), but I have written a technical text as well which does qualify me as a writer as well ;) Konrad Kgrr 02:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Liviu Librescu

You made these incorrect edits here. Yom HaShoah is acknowledged by the Hebrew calendar, as a result, it is observed on Sunday night and the day of Monday. When the Professor was killed, it was still Yom HaShoah, as it was the day of Yom HaShoah. Epson291 17:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Nope. I can understand why you might think so, but the convention at the site I referenced was different. The eve was Saturday. The day was Sunday. I've changed it back after leaving explaination at your talk page and the talk page for the article.--Beth Wellington 20:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


You are correct Epson291 20:24, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I had to check myself to make sure Yom HaShoah wasn't celebrated for two days in the Diasporah, after seeing the news article. But some Orthodox congregations don't even recognize it as a holiday. See [5] What an irony. I live only 35 miles from Tech and have so many friends on the faculty and in graduate school. We're all in shock.--Beth Wellington 20:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi Beth, been thinking of you. Look after yourself. Rich Farmbrough, 21:51 27 April 2007 (GMT).


I am sorry for the loss you're area has gone through, you are very close to it. I'm still in shock too and I'm far removed from it. Yom HaShoah was on the Sunday/Monday and I spoke with a family member in Israel to confirm! And here's what I found from a English search. "In May, 1997 the Israeli government changed the definition of Yom HaShoah to state that if it falls on a Sunday it will be postponed to the following day." Now that doesn't mean a shul im the U.S. wouldn't have had a memorial service on the Sunday, but the siren was on the Monday morning.

Here are some English links, http://www.ziporah-greve.net/prog/jewish-csharp.html

and http://history1900s.about.com/cs/holocaust/a/yomhashoah.htm

If you'd like to see what happens when the siren goes, http://www.israelnationalnews.com/TV/, and click "The Nation of Israel Remembers" (the politics of the website in general leaves what to be desired but the video is good). Ah alas it seemes someone already reverted the Professor's page back. Epson291 08:44, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the wishes and the links. I'm wondering if we we should be talking about when Yom HaShoah was observed in the US, as the incident happened in Blacksburg? I've called my Rabbi and left a message and am expecting a call back. Since it's not an othodox holiday and some orthodox Jews don't celebrate it at all, the question becomes, since there was no conflict with the Shabbat in the U.S., whether the date was moved to coincide with observation in Israel. (See discussion with Pharos.)

At a dinner party last night in Roanoke, a friend who works at Tech with the wife of one of the professors shot and drove up from Montgomery County told me Dr. Granata was in his office on the third floor when he heard shots. He locked the students in his office and went down to investigate and never returned. I just looked it up and his story in the Washington Post is here: [6]. Another friend at dinner told me that her friend who works in a local hospital said someone in the building in the aftermath said that one of the eeriest things was the sound of thirty cell phones on the floor repeatedly ringing. --Beth Wellington 22:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yom HaShoah

This is a complicated question, and I don't fully understand it. I was involved with putting the mention of Yom HaShoah on the MainPage, when User:Deborahjay corrected us that it is not always observed in Israel on Nisan 27. It seems to me that the reason why the observance would be delayed in Israel (conflict with Sabbath observance) would apply equally outside of Israel, at least to Orthodox people who observe the day in a religious manner (which is a minority of the Orthodox community.) We should probably raise the question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism.--Pharos 21:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. It's not an othodox holiday; some orthodox Jews don't celebrate it at all. The question becomes, since there was no conflict with the Shabbat in the U.S., whether the date is moved to coincide with Israel. I went aheah and called my Rabbi and left a message to call back to straighten this out. --Beth Wellington 21:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't like the word "celebrate" to describe Yom HaShoah. Many Orthodox Jews do commemerate Yom HaShoah, it was particularly chosen on the date (as opposed to Erev Pessach) because of them. Of course it is not a "orthodox holiday", it is a Jewish day, for all Jews. Since the United States is not a Jewish state, there are no state sacntioned Jewish holidays, all Jewish holidays follow the Hebrew calendar, so by nature, whatever Israel chose for that day would be reconized by Jews globally. It would be silly to think that a day created by the State of Israel would then be reconized on a different day in Blacksburg and still be called Holocaust Memorial Day. Epson291 01:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Point taken about the use of the word celebrate as to connotation, although the denotation is "to observe." And one can celebrate the lives, as well as mourn the deaths of those who perished in the Holocaust. But while you call it silly, many U.S. Jews observed Yom HaShoah April 15, including the congregation in Blacksburg [7] and Roanoke [8], the Orthodox Union [9], the U.S. Holocaust Museum [10]. I've already mentioned the Conservative movement. A sampling of others Midwest Center for Holocaust Education [11], Temple Israel of Minneapolis (http://www.templeisrael.com/holidayslong.html], Office of the Governor New Jersey Commission on Holocaust, Henry Ricklis Holocaust Memorial Committee and Jewish Federation of Greater Middlesex County [12], Sinai Temple of Los Angeles [13], American Jewish Congress of Nova Scotia [14], Combined Jewish Philanthropies of Boston [15]. --Beth Wellington 04:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Beth, I've done some similar research and I believe you are correct. All major Jewish American institutions seem to mark Yom HaShoah on 27 Nisan, no matter what day of the week it falls on. Of course, who can say if this is the situation with all diaspora Jewish communities? I've gotten the impression (but I haven't confirmed it mathematically) that 27 Nisan cannot actually fall on Shabbat itself anyway, only the day before or after, so I think that Israel's moving of the date is more down to convenience for her Orthodox citizens rather than strict religious necessity. I don't suppose this difference of observance with Israel is down to anything intentional; diaspora communities probably just find it easier to stick with the one date. Anyway, I'll try to update Yom HaShoah with this information; I'm not sure how this should play into the Librescu article.--Pharos 04:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


From the Orthodox Union, "On Monday April 17, as Israel observed Yom Hashoah, Holocaust Day, a Holocaust survivor gave his life to help save his students. 75-year-old Professor Liviu Lebrescu threw himself in front of the Virginia Tech shooter when the shooter attempted to enter his classroom." He was Israeli no less so writing "as Israel observed Yom Hashoah" should solve it. Here is a Canadain congregation having it on Sunday/Monday, http://www.nsbs.ns.ca/inforum/images/April16HolocaustMemorialDay.pdf Halifax http://www.fjmc.org/yomhashoa.html Toronto. though you're right most (if not almost all) North American organziations marked it on the Sunday and ignore the Israeli practice. So my apologies for thinking it was "silly", I (in my opinion) "naturally" assumed they'd be on the same date. Epson291 05:18, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

It's often easy to overlook one's assumptions. I think you've come up with an elegant fix. Now here's my next question. Dr. Lebrescu is listed in the article as having dual citizenship; is that accurate? I know that he had been in the U.S. for 20 years, but failed, in a cursory search, to find an account of U.S. citizenship. --Beth Wellington 07:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I think I read he was but I'll have to look more in detail. Epson291 04:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Doing a simple search yields no reliable information that he was an American citizen but I'll look more in depth. I would like to here your Rabbi's responce when you hear it. I highly doubt he ever got his Romanian back, he would've been stripped from it when he left, and he certainly has Israeli citzenship. Epson291 04:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DC Meetup notice

Greetings. There is going to be a Washington DC Wikipedia meetup on next Saturday, July 21st at 5pm in DC. Since you are listed in Category:Wikipedians_in_Virginia, I thought I'd invite you to come. I'm sorry about the short notice for the meeting. Hopefully we'll do somewhat better in that regard next time. If you can't come but want to make sure that you are informed of future meetings be sure to list yourself under "but let me know about future events", and if you don't want to get any future direct notices \(like this one\), you can list yourself under "I'm not interested in attending any others either" on the DC meetup page.--Gmaxwell 22:08, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

A great deal of the info can be sourced from his "official" web site, wherever that was. Rich Farmbrough, 14:13 2 October 2007 (GMT).

  • Hello, thanks for your message. I'm not entirely sure why you left the message for me because I have not edited that page for a long time. However, I will definitely check it out and fix any plagiarism problems. We don't want that on Wikipedia. Johntex\talk 04:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ==It's the economy, stupid

90% for GHWB...

Hi ... the number bounces around, depending on source and poll. Here, it states GHWB's top approval at 90%.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2007/07/approval_highs_and_lows.html

Huffington Post put the number at 80% (google records it) but it appears removed from the blog...

www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/George%20H.%20W.%20Bush

I should change that number to 90. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhodog (talk • contribs) 00:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Julio_Jorge_López

I have moved (with the accent), and fixed the date. I think [16] would be fine, allow people to use a translation service if they wish. Your keen journalistic eye will have noticed that there is a lot of text clean up needed. Rich Farmbrough, 03:56 8 February 2008 (GMT).