User talk:Betacommand/20080201

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[edit] gun registry

Why do you refuse to discuss the topic and talk on the discussion page. The very action you made was perfectly outlined hours before you did it. Please read the discussion page and comment on it before engaging in revert wars.

P.S. Why does it seem that lots of people seem to have the same problems with you? just look at the archives.

--Jadger (talk) 19:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Question, were you the IP that was blocked yesterday for doing the same thing? βcommand 19:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
don't try a red herring fallacy. Why don't you ever discuss on the talk pages? I took a look at your contributions, and the first page, the only times you were on talk pages is the above comment and when you reverted my comments on another talk page. Why do you revert talk page edits? That flies in the face of wikipedia's civility rules.
--Jadger (talk) 19:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Ill take that as a yes. Please check my edits yes I reverted your talkpage edit by mistake, within a minute I reverted myself. accidents do happen. Also you need to read WP:NPOV. As for not editing talkpages I have more talkspace edits than you have total edits. βcommand 19:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
not on the first four pages you don't, you have only 3 or 4 of the last edits out of 200 on talk pages. And don't forget wikipedia's policy of assume good faith editting, which you quite clearly have never heard of, or just like to edit without listening to Wikipedia policy. Thank you for reverting back my talk page edit, but why did you feel it needed deleted in the first place? I also notice you did that to the anon as well. Also, Wikipedia's NPOV policy does not say our sources have to be neutral, only the article has to be neutral, which it is with my additions, just because an expert says somethign that is POV doesn't mean it can't be added to the article. Read what I wrote before editing it, it was perfectly neutral. Or perhaps you could reword it yourself instead of just deleting information. After all, Wikipedia has a be bold policy, unfortunately it looks like you like to revert anyone that follows that policy.
--Jadger (talk) 19:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] An image with a dishonest tag

Image:Iron Maiden.jpg has a dishonest "self-made" tag on it. Common pro-shot publicity photo. 156.34.220.142 (talk) 03:30, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A big Thank you, for motivation WP:SEI

The Working Man's Barnstar
A big thank you for motivating me to create Wikipedia:Social engineering Internet WP:SEI. Please keep up the good work policing Wikipedia. Igor Berger (talk) 06:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding WP:VPRF

There is a large backlog of users waiting to be approved. WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDENplay it cool. 22:15, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How many fair-use images can a deceased person have?

Dumb question? :D . I understand the fair-use rationale being added to images of deceased people being added to pages... they're deceased so a new free image can't be obtained. But does that mean more than one image can be added? I could see if it was 1 "young" image and 1 "old" image. Reason I ask is.... as editor uploaded/added an image of Stevie Ray Vaughan with a very detailed "he's dead" - "just using to show what he looks like" etc etc etc... all pretty valid looking. But now today there is another image added which has the identical fair-use rationale... but the image doesn't portray the subject looking any different then the first image did. Does that fair-use rationale allow for the "double/double" addition. Both are decent images... the second one showing the subjects face a lot better. Doesn't the "existence" of one cancel the "need" for the other? Just wondering. Thanks and have a nice day! 156.34.220.142 (talk) 23:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-free logo list

Since its the end of the week I'm just checking in about the non-free sourced non-compliant logo list we had talked about earlier. No rush, but I'm trying to plan my schedule out over the next week and would want to try to plan time in for it, if you'd have it done by then.

BTW, I don't use VP much since the interface is rather difficult to use, but I can count edits and blocks, so if you ever needed help with that, I'd be willing to pitch in. MBisanz talk 04:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image rename bot pages

Per request, they're created. Note that users will have to use {{rename media}} as the other rename-related named templates are taken.

I've placed them all into Category:Image renaming. I'd probably suggest doing the same to the bot userpage when you're done. ~Kylu (u|t) 07:02, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How to check undefined parameters?

How do you check undefined parameters, using wiki's parser?

I saw on M:Help:ParserFunctions that it looked like I needed to use either #ifeq: or #ifexpr:, but I was kind of confused about the correct syntax.

This is about my plan to re-vamp Wikipedia:Bots/Status.

To get an idea of why I'm asking, check out User:Zenwhat/Sandbox.

When I'm finished, we could also consolidate these templates all into one template at Template:Botstatus:

{{Wikipedia:Registered bots/discontinued}}
{{Wikipedia:Registered bots/inactive}}
{{Wikipedia:Registered bots/active}}
{{Wikipedia:Registered bots/trials}}
{{Wikipedia:Registered bots/malfunctioning}}

After this is all very done, maybe you or any of the other bot-owners who could start using bots to automatically add & remove names from there? ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 13:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

wiki template syntax is more complex than any programming language that i know. I would suggest finding someone good with templates to help. βcommand 16:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

You know if any of the other bot-owners might know? ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 23:07, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind. I got it. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 23:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Bot approval reviewers list

But... what about this? Nousernamesleftcopper, not wood 23:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see this... Nousernamesleftcopper, not wood 23:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] King Willan Bot

Hi! Why do you denied my request?

Look my all contributions with a bot flag: Ca, No, Sv,Vo.

Look my all contributions dont't have the bot flag: De, En, Eo, Es, Fi, Fr, It, Ja, Nl, Pl, Pt, Ro, Ru, Sk, Tr, Zh.

All contributions are corrects except the 75 first contributions: In this, a part is correct and the others, I edit the errors...

Thank you, --King Willan Bot (talk) 22:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AN Thread

Just an FYI that actions taken by your bot are being discussed at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Adding_useless_revisions_to_pages_to_make_them_undeletable. MBisanz talk 04:25, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I've added a note to the bot talk page as well. Carcharoth (talk) 11:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rename bot

Nice work on the rename bot Beta, it was about time that someone took it upon himself to handle this. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 19:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

spread the word and get users involved, I dont want to see this never get off the ground. βcommand 19:34, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia talk:Image renaming - looks like you've got volunteers, also. ~Kylu (u|t) 03:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Can we change the checkpage to something else, that way the main image renaming page is editable? I'd like to just transclude the checkpage onto the image renaming page so there is the smallest amount protected possible. Potentially, we could even just tranclude a .css page in your namespace so you can edit it in addition to admins... what'cha think? ~Kylu (u|t) 22:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is the robot functioning correctly?

It complained about Image:The_City_and_the_Stars_hardcover.jpg but I can't see anything invalid about the rational. It would help greatly if the tags included in clear, plain language, English something like

  • "X was seen, expected Y"
  • "X was seen but it should not be on the page"
  • "X is not present on the page"

where both X and Y and are the exact strings that the robot is looking at. Marc Kupper (talk) (contribs) 07:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

the version that the bot tagged [1] had no rationale. βcommand 07:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, I thought what was on the page was sufficient for the rationale. I've added more but still have no idea if the image is now within policy.
  • Is there an example page of what a rationale is supposed to look like?
  • Is there a way to ask a robot to rescan a page to see if it now looks kosher and to give a positive answer one way or another (yes, this robot is happy, or no, this is what seems wrong)?
  • Slightly off topic - but is there a way to tag a page or image so that I get notified on my talk page if a robot leaves a message? Right now it looks like only the original uploader gets a message on their talk page. I know I could watch-list but sometimes get busy and don't pay attention to the watch-list. Marc Kupper (talk) (contribs) 01:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I think not paying attention to your watch list would be your problem :) Muzzamo (talk) 03:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
This link http://tools.wikimedia.de/~betacommand/cgi-bin/check?&file=Image:Barrybigbands.jpg replcing Barrybidbands with your image name will check is against BC's bot checker. This page describes how to add rationales Wikipedia:FURG and Wikipedia:Task of the Day/Example Rationales shows examples of its implementation. MBisanz talk 22:57, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

Re Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Smart_category_searching - did the tool you mentioned get written? Where could I find it? Neıl ☎ 11:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding you/bot/etc.

Two things:

  1. I assume your ref-related edits are not automated; however, just to be safe, can you confirm that you're not running the bot on your main account?
  2. Have you made any statement on the block of BetacommandBot? If you've apologized/promised not to do it again, I'll unblock the bot, since it clearly does much more good than harm.

Thanks, Ral315 (talk) 04:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

as for comment one, its a updated version of the pywikipedia noreferences.py which is a simi auto tool. As for comment two see my comments on AN about it. it was a one time thing that I did not expect to be a drama fest and dont plan on doing it again. βcommand 04:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good. On the first one, that's good -- I just wanted to double-check, because you've made similar edits (rarely) on your bot account, so I wanted to make sure it was manual or semi-auto (otherwise, that'd obviously be a problem). On the second one, I've posted to the AN: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Unblocking BetacommandBot?. Let's hope it doesn't make things worse :) Ral315 (talk) 04:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
if they where done on BCbot's account that was a mistake. I must have forgot to change the username back in the config settings that I have for pywiki. βcommand 04:48, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Please, someone, block the bot. It's haywire, and ruining Wikipedia. Garth M (talk) 14:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

The bot did its work correctly, there is actually something wrong with the image (is the fair use rationale stated for the correct page?), please check and correct that. Thanks. --Beetstra (public) (Dirk BeetstraT C on public computers) 14:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Personally, I think your bots do a great job and you should be granted more leeway than you've been getting lately. Maybe what you should do is stop running your bots and let people gape when hell breaks loose. Work on something else - like improving AWB (which is a pain in the ass IMHO). Even LiveJournal has a better user client. Avruchtalk 16:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] User page status

I have had the benefit of your knowhow in the past, by analyzing your page and edits. However, I am in no way capable of understanding all this coding. I am very interested by the Status at the top of your User page. If I understand correctly, I would have to create 2 new user pages and put the required code in each of them for the Status to work correctly. If so, is there a special procedure to be used when creating a User/new_name page? Thank you for your attention. --Jazzeur (talk) 22:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GR templates

Regarding my request about adding references to pages with GR templates: the templates have now been converted to display as standard references, but the actual text of the page doesn't show the <ref>, just the {{GR|2}} or whatever other number instead of the 2. Could you have your bot go around and add reference sections to all pages with the GR templates that don't have such sections? Nyttend (talk) 04:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] fix refs?

In the case of Certificate of deposit and other recent edits, why is the bot inserting spaces in headings: for example, changing "==Heading==" to "== Heading =="? Also, why are categories being moved under the <!-- other languages --> note?
--JKeene (talk) 06:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Signpost updated for February 4th, 2008.

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[edit] Bot unblocked

Effective now. Verb sap. etc. Rich Farmbrough, 10:56 6 February 2008 (GMT).

If I may add a more verbose "word to the wise" (verb sap), I think people would appreciate direct answers to some direct questions. As I said over in the AN thread, just "I've admited that I fucked up, I was acting in what I though was the betterment of wikipedia" and "I am sorry that my good faithed attempt to protect the encyclopedia, caused as much drama as it did" comments are not really enough. You need to say that you are sorry for doing this without proper discussion (not just for causing the drama), and to show that you will be able to judge such things better in the future and not do them again. The best way to do that is to actually discuss what happened, rather than trying to move on too quickly (cynics would say that is a way to avoid scrutiny). So here are the questions. I'm aware that you have answered some of these questions in the AN thread or elsewhere in the past, but I think repeating the answers here in one place would help. For one thing, you can then point people here when they ask.
  • (1) What exactly was your role in all this?
  • (2) Who did you discuss it with?
  • (3) Why did you do this without any on-wiki discussion?
  • (4) Given your answers to questions 1-3, what will you do when a similar request is made to you in future?
  • (5) Do you accept that your "bots are usualy exempt from needing approval for user subpage editing" reasoning does not apply here?
  • (6) Should the bot request have been approved by WP:BAG?
  • (7) Do you accept that your bot functions need to be split up to prevent over-reliance on a single bot and to reduce the effects of any future blockings?
  • (8) Do you accept that back-up bots, or clones, operated by others should be available?
That should be enough for now, though I will note that there is an unanswered question from me in that AN thread: "passing him a bot that made a bunch of garbage edits at reckless speed without informing him of its nature, although I suspect he's learned a lesson to not run unvetted code on his account" Beta, did you really run unvetted code on that account? How much did you know of what East718 was trying to do?" It would be good if you could answer that in your reply to question 1 as well. Carcharoth (talk) 14:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
1 I just ran the code that created 1026 revisions in a user subpage of east's, that were either 0 or 1.
2 it was just east
3 there are a lot of things I do without discussion that dont cause any problems. and I did not expect this to be any different.
4 Like I have said, I try and avoid drama and I dont want repeats. so I will check with others before doing something like this again.
5. for my direct actions no approval is needed. had I known fully what east had been planning that would have been different.
6. Like I said for what my part in the issue no approval is needed, see above.
7. Like I have said Im working on that, changing large amounts of code does not happen overnight.
8. I have said that I would release my code to trusted persons under the conditions that they dont release the code, that they dont modify it, and dont use it if Im available. I dont trust OTRS for that kind of thing so I do it on a personal level.
βcommand 14:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm happy to drop most of this now, and raise points 5 and 6 at WP:BAG. I'll note that over on AN. Carcharoth (talk) 14:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I really don't know that a federal investigation is necessary in this case. The problem is solved, the parties have apologized and most of us have moved on. The fix against deleting the main page is a dirty hack that should probably have been done a long time ago. Betacommand does a difficult job that few others have shown both the willingness and ability to do - and he receives tons of undeserved (and some deserved) flak as a result. His communication isn't ideal, but he performs a valuable (and long) list of tasks. The situation is in someways similar to Giano - because his contributions are so valued, we've made and will continue to make allowances for those things that disturb us but result in no real harm. If there continues to be serious community interest in a comprehensive investigation here, perhaps an RfC is warranted rather than a list of questions posted in multiple forums. Avruchtalk 14:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
It seems that Betacommand disagrees with you. I've got the answers I wanted. I'm satisfied. There, wasn't difficult, was it? Carcharoth (talk) 14:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I guess. I don't see much in his answers that he hasn't already said elsewhere, so if this was all you were looking for... His answers should probably be crossposted to AN so it doesn't look like he is ignoring your questions when he isn't. Avruchtalk 15:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Would you like me to list what he has said here he that he hasn't said elsewhere (on-wiki at least), or would you like to list what he has said elsewhere (on-wiki)? :-) Carcharoth (talk) 15:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, you can correct me if I'm wrong because I'll do it without looking for references:

  • He has already said he discussed it with east only/this was already known.
  • He has said multiple times that he releases his code to specific people he trusts under conditions.
  • He has already said his actions to userspace don't need approval.
  • He has already said that he is working on diversifying his bot activities to multiple accounts.
  • He already said he didn't wait or discuss it because he didn't think it would be a big problem, and
  • He's already said he doesn't like drama and won't repeat this particular mistake.

Avruchtalk 15:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

My smiley was meant to show that I wasn't serious about that! :-) My point about having this all in one place was serious. Would you like to gather diffs to demonstrate the above? Are all those responses already in one place? Not having a centralised response mean people have to have distributed awareness to realise that he had said all this in various places. Carcharoth (talk) 15:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Mre Bag

Hello this image was public domain, on the mre article page for over a year without any complaint and added a lot to the depth of the article, I believe it was overzealously deleted and wish to register my dissent —Preceding unsigned comment added by Country Captain Chicken (talk • contribs) 21:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Help Me!!!

To whom it may concern.... Recently, I have uploaded a picture which I obtained from my friend who got this picture of my school badge from my official school web instructor. Recently, I have asked the the web instructor, Puan/Mrs Azalina who create the logo for my school web -http://k.domaindlx.com/smkseriperak/main%20page.htm. She allowed me to use this logo to be used in wikipedia article and that's why I licensed it under-The owner this picture has allowed me to use this picture for wikipedia article. I hope my request is fullfilled for the sake of my school.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Syfuel (talk • contribs) 08:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] RFC Contesting and Contesting controversies

These are two seperate RFCs raised a couple of days apart, seperate articles. When you took over RFC BOT work you edited the one for Contesting on 21 January to point to the Contesting controversies one. That was incorrect, they should both be showing in the RFC list. Dsergeant (talk) 15:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

its been fixed. βcommand 15:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Many thanks Dsergeant (talk) 16:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Roy Harper Album covers

Why tag them for deletion? What is wrong with the Fair Use Rationales provided? Is this 'bot' out of control or something!? Stephenjh (talk) 00:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Read points #3 and #5 from the great big stop hand box at the top of this page. Also read the warning tag on Image:Roy Harper Single Elizabeth.jpg for example; "invalid rationale per WP:NFCC#10c The name of each article in which fair use is claimed for the item, and a separate fair-use rationale for each use of the item, as explained at Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline." On that image, the article "Whatever Happened to Jugula?" is not linked (or even mentioned...should be linked) in the rationale. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] RFCpol list not updated

When does the Template:RFCpol list get updated? The Rfc at Talk:Lyndon_LaRouche#RFC:__Unprotect_Lyndon_LaRouche is not showing up. Thanks. CM (talk) 19:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Ill update all RfC's in ~3 hours. βcommand 20:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Blocked for one week

I think the owner is aware, and a note about the ANI discussion has been left on his talk page, but just noting the block here for the record. See here and block log entry here. Carcharoth (talk) 11:37, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Over-categorization

You do not need to add the category "Scotland" to an article which is already in a category which is ultimately a sub-category of it e.g. "Islands of Loch Lomond". PatGallacher (talk) 17:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know what you're on about with the comment you left on my talk page. I suggest that you suspend this activity until we have a chance to discuss this. PatGallacher (talk) 17:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Very high level categories like "Scotland" will quickly become overloaded with hundreds of articles if you grant this approach. PatGallacher (talk) 17:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

large categories are not an issue. see WP:VPP#Some thoughts on categories where I brought this up, there were not issues. βcommand 17:11, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Hey! Beta, I'd strongly suggest you stop any attempt to populate primary categories based only on that WP:VPP discussion. You need to get the category regulars on board first. See WT:CAT, Wikipedia:WikiProject Categories and WP:CFD for starters. Carcharoth (talk) 18:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Beta, I think from "Im going it for easier access to information within Primary categories so that finding articles is a similar process." and "By fully populating Primary categories it elimantes the need to use subcats for bot work" - I think you are pushing this idea to make it easier for bots to operate. That is not on. Categories are for people, not bots. Category population and creation is an organic and sometimes chaotic business that is best done by humans. Bots are not very good at doing this (well, not yet anyway). Carcharoth (talk) 18:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Its just not bots, ive been pissed of countless times because I cant find what Im looking for due to micro categorization. Instead of look eight categories deep in who knows what proper subcat, its a lot easier to have redundancy in both subcats and primary categorization also. βcommand 18:29, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Please stop this bot categorising numerous small islands under Category Scotland. I note from the above you may be reluctant to do so for your reasons, but this is very irritating and somewhat counter-productive. Thank-you. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 18:51, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Your comments may raise some questions about the Wikipedia categorisation procedure, but as this raises some pretty fundamental questions about categorisation please refrain from making major changes until there is a clearly established consensus or decision on this issue. If your bot or search procedures cannot handle the current approach maybe that's a problem with your bot. PatGallacher (talk)

Beta, are you aware of CatScan? Won't that do what you are after? Carcharoth (talk) 00:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Please stop this! Any problems you have finding things because of micro-categorisation are nothing to the problems duplicating all the sub-categories in the main category will cause. I have not seen anyone except yourself speak in favour of this yet. Johnbod (talk) 10:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BetacommandBot Extensions

Hi Betacommand,

I'm working on software to detect potential sockpuppets, and I was told that apparently many of the planned features are already in your BetacommandBot! Duplicate code is pointless, so I thought it'd good to get in touch with you. This all benefits you because it could very well mean free work on extending your existing bot -- which would be nice I think. Anyway, if you would, email me at virgil at caltech dot edu. Thanks. Romanpoet (talk) 22:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I have a sock detecting tool operational right now,
  • For further evidence, please see the results of the UserCompare tool.
βcommand 22:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You've got the wrong person

uuuh, I've never uploaded any image on here, let alone Image:Sonsandaughters.PNG. Just thought you should know, so that you can find the real person that uploaded it... Bmecoli (talk) 09:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

uhm... then again, my name is on there... how strange... huh. Bmecoli (talk) 09:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] SquelchBot

Your personal attack on me is unjustified. I've left a comment here. You are free to comment on my comment. Wjhonson (talk) 17:34, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of minor characters on xena: warrior princess

I reply, as you reversed the page List of Minor Characters in Xena: Warrior Princess, I hope you have a good reason Answer me please —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lawless fan (talk • contribs) 00:26, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Please see WP:NFCC βcommand 01:56, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Feces

Is it OK if I upload an image of myself holding a piece of human feces to be used in the above article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lantern Oil (talk • contribs) 00:48, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

There is a whole category on Commons just for Human Feces. Knock yourself out with the picture taking.. but it's up to the regular editors of the article to decide which, if any pictures are added. --Versageek 01:46, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/IRC

This arbitration case has closed and the final decision may be found at the link above. Giano is placed on civility restriction for one year. Should Giano make any edits which are judged by an administrator to be uncivil, personal attacks, or assumptions of bad faith, Giano may be blocked for the duration specified in the enforcement ruling. All parties in this case are strongly cautioned to pursue disputes in a civil manner designed to contribute to resolution and to cause minimal disruption. All the involved editors, both the supporters and detractors of IRC, are asked to avoid edit warring on project space pages even if their status is unclear, and are instructed to use civil discussion to resolve all issues with respect to the "admin" IRC channel. For the Arbitration committee, Thatcher 04:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How do I use the "UserCompare Tool"?

I'd like to run it on someone. How do I do that? — BQZip01 — talk 04:42, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

give me the usernames and Ill post the results. βcommand 04:47, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] VandalProof

I know you have a lot of other stuff to do, but could you please go over the Vandal Proof Approval list, as it seems to be getting quit lengthy. 71.249.42.11 (talk) 16:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

reviewing it as you posted. βcommand 16:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] vandal proof

Ok, so when my I reapply and what do I need to be assured approval next time?--Pewwer42  Talk  17:31, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

please see the requirements for using VP you need at at least 250 mainspace edits. βcommand 17:33, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
ok, I think I have enough now, but I'm asking you to check ahead of time so I don't waste time getting rejected. Edit count can be found here. Thank you very much for your time --Pewwer42  Talk  22:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] hercule

Hello,

I don't contest your decision to not approuve me for using VandalProof. I just would like to know the reason (is it because I want to use it in french wikipedia or for an other reason? If it's for another reason I hope you know my account was renamed recently (I was Hercule bzh). I know than the count edit tools have a problem with this. My contributions in fr are visible with the name Hercule bzh.

Regards

--Hercule (talk) 19:27, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

VP does not work on fr wiki. and you dont have enough edits on en yet. βcommand 19:28, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for your answer. I don't need it in en ;) --Hercule (talk) 19:31, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RE: VandalProof

Hey, Betacommand, might I ask why you declined me? WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDEN round of applause 20:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is your bot hungry?

If so, I've a feast for it here. Chock full of DVD images begging to be plucked and devoured :) - Arcayne (cast a spell) 20:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] VandalProof

I understand about the protocols, but seriously, why did you decline me? Lex T/C Guest Book 23:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image deleted on October 2007

Hi, your bot marked the fair use I provided to Image:Semprelivremix.jpg as invalid on October 2007, but it didn't notify me about this, so I didn't have the chance to provide the fair use. I've only discovered it today, and now the image is gone, obviously. No problem, considereing that I can just upload it again with a valid fair use, of course. Anyway, I'm just warning you about this, so that other users and their images don't get deleted without a warning. Thank you, Victao lopes (talk) 23:31, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't betacommand. 10:07, October 31, 2007 Maxim (Talk | contribs) deleted "Image:Semprelivremix.jpg" ‎ (Deleted because "CSD I7 - Invalid fair use rationale". using TW) Timeshift (talk) 23:49, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Timeshift9, the issue that was raised was that BCBot tagged the image without notifing the uploader. βcommand 23:56, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
the reason that you did not receive a warning about the image is because you did not upload it. see User_talk:Cesarm#Disputed_fair_use_rationale_for_Image:Semprelivremix.jpg for the message BCBot left the uploader. βcommand 05:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, here's from the file's history:
  • 22:47, July 30, 2007 . . Cesarm (Talk | contribs | block) 810×697 (122,482 bytes) (cover of the disc 'sempre livre mix', by the band paralamas do sucesso & titãs. it could help to identify the album.)
User:Cesarm was also the only one to edit it outside of BCBot SQLQuery me! 06:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] re: my thread on AN (reverted edit counter tool?)

Hi BC...The IP I'm looking for info on is 150.148.0.27. As I said, he's currently on a 1-week block, but this guy is a thorn in my ample behind, and I'm making a case that his absence would benefit the 'pedia far more than his presence. If I can find out his number of reverted edits compared to his total edits, that case should be MUCH easier to make. Any help would be MUCH appreciated. Gladys J Cortez 06:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Last 5,000 edits

 549 approximate day(s) of edits on this page (551 day(s) passed since first edit)
Current time: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:06:59 UTC || Last edit: 15:36, February 8, 2008 || Oldest edit: 18:10, August 8, 2006
Overall edit summary use (last 1000 edits): Major edits: 69.7% Minor edits: NaN%
Average edits per day: 26.31 (currently, for last 1000 edit(s))
Average edits per day: 27.69 (since last active, for last 1000 edit(s))
Article edit summary use (last 989 edits): Major article edits: 69.46% Minor article edits: NaN%
Encyclopedia contributions (out of all 5000 edits shown on this page and last 0 image uploads):
Notable article edits (creation/expansion/major rewrites/sourcing): 0.02% (1)
Significant article edits (copyedits/small rewrites/content/reference additions): 0.32% (16)
Superficial article edits (grammar/spelling/wikify/links/tagging): 75.28% (3764)
Unique image uploads (non-deleted/reverts/updates): 0 (checks last 5000)
Superficial article edits marked as minor: 0%
Project contributions (as marked):
Articles for Creation: 0% (0 edit(s))
Peer Review: 0% (0 edit(s))
Pages for Deletion: 0% (0 edit(s))
Copyright problems pages: 0% (0 edit(s))
WP:AN/related noticeboards: 0% (0 edit(s))
Bot approvals pages: 0% (0 edit(s))
FA/FP/FL candidate pages: 0% (0 edit(s))
RfC/RfAr pages: 0% (0 edit(s))
Requests for adminship: 0% (0 edit(s))
Identified RfA votes: 0% (0 support vote(s)) || (0 oppose vote(s))
User warnings: 0% (0 edit(s))
User welcomes: 0% (0 edit(s))
Special edit type statistics (as marked):
Page moves: 0% (0 edit(s)) (0 moves(s))
Page redirections: 0.08% (4 edit(s))
Page (un)protections: 0% (0 edit(s))
AutoWikiBrowser edits: 0% (0 edit(s))
Breakdown of all edits:
Unique pages edited: 637 | Average edits per page: 7.85 | Edits on top: 0.84%
Edits marked as major (non-minor/reverts): 76.64% (3832 edit(s))
Edits marked as minor (non-reverts): 0% (0 edit(s))
Marked reverts (reversions/text removal): 0.6% (30 edit(s))
Unmarked edits with no summary: 22.76% (1138 edit(s))
Edit count by namespace:
Article: 98.6% (4930) | Article talk: 0.82% (41)
User: 0.02% (1) | User talk: 0% (0)
Wikipedia: 0.06% (3) | Wikipedia talk: 0% (0)
Image: 0.5% (25) | Image talk: 0% (0)
Template: 0% (0) | Template talk: 0% (0)
Category: 0% (0) | Category talk: 0% (0)
Portal: 0% (0) | Portal talk: 0% (0)
Help: 0% (0) | Help talk: 0% (0)
MediaWiki: 0% (0) | MediaWiki talk: 0% (0)

First 231 edits:

Overall edit summary use (last 231 edits):  Major edits: 68.4% Minor edits: NaN%
Average edits per day: [Value unknown]* (currently, for last 231 edit(s))
Average edits per day: 0.33 (since last active, for last 231 edit(s))
Article edit summary use (last 218 edits): Major article edits: 70.64% Minor article edits: NaN%
Encyclopedia contributions (out of all 231 edits shown on this page and last 0 image uploads):
Notable article edits (creation/expansion/major rewrites/sourcing): 0% (0)
Significant article edits (copyedits/small rewrites/content/reference additions): 0% (0)
Superficial article edits (grammar/spelling/wikify/links/tagging): 66.67% (154)
Unique image uploads (non-deleted/reverts/updates): [Value unknown]* (checks last 5000)
Superficial article edits marked as minor: 0%
Project contributions (as marked):
Articles for Creation: 0% (0 edit(s))
Peer Review: 0% (0 edit(s))
Pages for Deletion: 0.43% (1 edit(s))
Copyright problems pages: 0% (0 edit(s))
WP:AN/related noticeboards: 0% (0 edit(s))
Bot approvals pages: 0% (0 edit(s))
FA/FP/FL candidate pages: 0% (0 edit(s))
RfC/RfAr pages: 0% (0 edit(s))
Requests for adminship: 0% (0 edit(s))
Identified RfA votes: 0% (0 support vote(s)) || (0 oppose vote(s))
User warnings: 0% (0 edit(s))
User welcomes: 0% (0 edit(s))
Special edit type statistics (as marked):
Page moves: 0% (0 edit(s)) (0 moves(s))
Page redirections: 0% (0 edit(s))
Page (un)protections: 0% (0 edit(s))
AutoWikiBrowser edits: 0% (0 edit(s))
Breakdown of all edits:
Unique pages edited: 41 | Average edits per page: 5.63 | Edits on top: 0.43%
Edits marked as major (non-minor/reverts): 68.4% (158 edit(s))
Edits marked as minor (non-reverts): 0% (0 edit(s))
Marked reverts (reversions/text removal): 0% (0 edit(s))
Unmarked edits with no summary: 31.6% (73 edit(s))
Edit count by namespace:
Article: 94.37% (218) | Article talk: 2.16% (5)
User: 0.43% (1) | User talk: 0.43% (1)
Wikipedia: 2.6% (6) | Wikipedia talk: 0% (0)
Image: 0% (0) | Image talk: 0% (0)
Template: 0% (0) | Template talk: 0% (0)
Category: 0% (0) | Category talk: 0% (0)
Portal: 0% (0) | Portal talk: 0% (0)
Help: 0% (0) | Help talk: 0% (0)
MediaWiki: 0% (0) | MediaWiki talk: 0% (0)
βcommand 13:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
BC, whatever tool that is, it's wonderful, and I thank you so much for the effort! (I really hope that was, like, one command or simple pre-existing script or something...) Tell me one thing, though, if you will: That "marked reverts" category--does that mean things HE has marked to revert, or things he's WRITTEN that have been reverted? It's the second piece of info I'm looking for, and if he has seriously only had 30 reverts, I will eat a significant article of my own underclothing. If, as I suspect, that category means reverts HE's done, is there a category that tells which are reverts of HIS work? (damn SAVE button...) And if so, which is it? Thanks! Gladys J Cortez 23:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
none of those are a list of reverted edits by the user. since the user in question has 5,300+ edits most other tools will not be effective, but I might have one more trick up my sleeve. βcommand 23:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Just to clarify and maybe save you some work: I don't need details about what he's written that have been reverted; I'm mainly interested in a percentage (reverted edits as a percent of total edits). I'm not as much concerned with content as with numbers. And thanks again for all this work you're doing! Gladys J Cortez 05:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] /Commons#Userboxes

Do you get new message popups on talk subpages as well? Timeshift (talk) 10:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Im waiting on the toolserver to get back up 100% βcommand 13:03, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Logo preprocessing

Any headway on pre-processing the logos into a list for me to tackle? MBisanz talk 05:10, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for images challenged on Vic McGlynn article

Betacommand bot put a challenge on the Vic McGlynn article. These are low resoultion captures from the in-studio webcam at BBC 6 Music. I then edited the photo and made a new one and uploaded it. The image in question is "Image:VicMc3.jpg" . It is fair use. Please advise. Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk) 17:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

You cannot use non-free images in articles about living people. βcommand 17:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. But isn't a screen capture of a LIVE webcam shot from the studio in BBC, with my edits and photo shop editing of it afterwards, a different kettle of fish ? Now I am really concerned about uploading ANY images ! --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk) 20:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The issue is that the studio holds the copyright to the webcast. It doesnt matter what you do to the images the studio will keep their copyright to those images. and thus they are non-free. βcommand 20:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
But what if someone from the studios uploaded it, and verified that they were indeed from the studios? Wilhelmina Will (talk) 20:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
you would need them to release a free version of that image and confirm it with m:OTRS. once there is a free license image on that page there are no problems. βcommand 20:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. At this point, I am disinclined to put any images into the articles I write on WP unless I took the photos myself or they're over 100 years old. That's weird. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk) 14:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Here we go again!

You have to send me repeat notices about the images that I uploaded long after I added a summary about said images' backgrounds. :{ TMC1982 2:05 p.m., 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The first image I checked, Image:Buck_Jack_(HOF).jpg, failed to meet policy becasue it didn't have a non-free image use rationale. Please see WP:NFURG for help setting one up. --uǝʌǝsʎʇɹnoɟʇs(st47) 00:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Why don't you save all of the trouble and do it your damn self (since you know more than I do about Wikipedia)!? TMC1982 10:23 p.m., 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Adding {{reflist}} and <references/>

Hello !

Sgeureka just suggested me that DumZiBoT could easily check in the edited pages for {{reflist}} and <references/>, and add it. Now, the check is easy, a regex will do; but I'm concerned about where should I add {{reflist}} ?! That is surely not *this* hard, but I know that lately you've been running a task like this: May I ask to see the code ? I'm not willing to use it as a standalone; I'm just willing to add the template to the pages I already edit :)

Thanks !

NicDumZ ~ 14:39, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

dont use {{reflist}}, a lot of people dont like it. see noreferences.py βcommand 14:40, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] {{Oldprodfull}}

Hello, Betacommand ... please see this talk page and tell me what you think of my newly created Template:Oldprodfull ... would you use it, or update it if you encountered it?

Also, what are your thoughts on my proposed WP:FLAG-BIO protocol?

Happy Editing! — 72.75.72.63 (talk · contribs) 14:46, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Betacommandbot exemption

Hi! Can you program Betacommandbot to ignore anything I upload, because I generally don't upload anything on Wikipedia absent the behest of someone else. (Commons, you know). I've transferred images from commons or uploaded fair use images for the Australian Football League, and still your bot bugs me! I don't want its ugly messages! Thanks, man. Cary Bass demandez 21:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Y Done βcommand 00:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fix the problem

If you really "do not want to see images deleted", instead of tagging images as problematic, why not just fix them instead? Chesdovi (talk) 21:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

simple, I dont upload non-free content. I will not fix images, there are tens of thousands of images with problems. there is no way in hell a single user can handle the workload. If you dont like it dont upload non-free content. βcommand 22:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
And so please quit running your bot amok tagging album cover images that are clearly marked with proper tags for a long time. You seem to think that adding layers of bureaucratic verbiage is helpful. It is not. Hu (talk) 18:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Hu, images that BCBot tags do not have rationales. if you disagree please link to the image in question and Ill help explain what the issue is. βcommand 18:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
The burden is on you to explain why you tag album images that already have proper rationales including in bold letters "solely to illustrate the audio recording in question". You are hiding behind a bogus claim of violation of section 10c. Further, you can't take harsh criticism so you revert it, yet you think it is perfectly civil when you write abusive obscenities like this one: [2]. Hu (talk) 19:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Images that the bot tag fail NFCC 10C. plain and simple. the audio recording in question does not pass 10c. βcommand 19:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
You seem to have your work cut out! But I can't see how by adding the page that the image relates to in the rationale section will take up anymore time than the time it takes to add the tag?! Chesdovi (talk) 19:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pedantic Note

The sentence containing 'is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy' uses the word insure incorrectly. The word should be ensure. Please correct this. Thank you. Poltair (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of minor characters in Xena: Warrior Princess

Please answer me why you are removing the images of Article List of Minor Characters in Xena: Warrior Princess, I just want to know the reason, answer me please bye —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.34.112.18 (talk) 00:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Image:μTorrent 1.7.2.png

Please do not make any more edits like this one. This image has a perfectly valid rationale. If your bot tags an image like this for deletion again then I will request that it is blocked until it is fixed. —Remember the dot (talk) 03:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

its an issue with how mediawiki parses greek letters. I hope I fixed it. βcommand 03:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for removing the deletion tag. When you say "fixed", do you mean that you've fixed your bot to take this case into account, or that you've just made an exception for this one image? —Remember the dot (talk) 03:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
there is no method for fixing the bot. what I did was I wikilinked to the actual title that mediawiki uses. which should solve this issue. βcommand 03:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Implement the MediaWiki title rules into your bot. If you do not do this then other images with greek letters will be needlessly deleted. —Remember the dot (talk) 03:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
There is no decent method of converting. Im not sure exactly how mediawiki does what it does. the issue only happens when the greek letter is the first one and is lowercase. (mediawiki forces it to be uppercase.) βcommand 03:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Then you are not going to fix your bot? At the very least you can omit whatever check is resulting in false positives. —Remember the dot (talk) 03:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
The issue is the bot checks for the title of the article. in this case ΜTorrent which should be on the page. it doesnt see that so it tags the image. there is no way that the bot can figure out that it should be μTorrent which is what was in the image text. it sees M and μ as completely separate letters. I fixed the image description by adding the ΜTorrent link. βcommand 03:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
The bot understands that chile and Chile refer to the same article. Why won't you program it to understand that μTorrent, ΜTorrent, and mTorrent all refer to the same article? —Remember the dot (talk) 03:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
its not as simple as you would think. letters a-z are ASCII and easily converted. but Greek letters are Unicode and do not covert without lot of messy error prone code. Im not sure how mediawiki does it but with Unicode there really isn't an Uppercase and Lower case. they treat each as different letters which is why I cant convert them to look case insensitive. βcommand 04:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
You're going to have to implement MediaWiki's algorithm, no matter how difficult that is (and how hard could it be, the greek alphabet only has 24 letters), in order to prevent this from happening in the future. If your bot continues to report false positives then it will have to be shut down. —Remember the dot (talk) 04:08, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bot blocked

I've blocked BetacommandBot: it's still having trouble with redirects. See [3] --Carnildo (talk) 05:01, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the tag placed on Image:Beychok's Cover.jpg by your bot

I uploaded the subject image on August 29,2006 (well over a year ago). It is a scan of a book cover. I am the author of that book as well as the publisher and I drew the original artwork for that book cover. That was clearly stated when I uploaded the image.

Earlier this evening, your bot added a tag which states:

This image or media has a non-free use rationale that is disputed because of the following concern:invalid rationale per WP:NFCC#10c The name of each article in which fair use is claimed for the item, and a separate fair-use rationale for each use of the item, as explained at Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline. The rationale is presented in clear, plain language, and is relevant to each use.

I don't understand what this is all about. I don't even know what a "fair use rationale" is.

At the time I uploaded the image, the license tag on the edit page read GFDL-self. Sometime between then and now, that was changed (by another bot, I think) to read GFDL-self-with-disclaimers. Could that be what has caused this problem? I did not make that change nor have I ever claimed "fair use" ... whatever that means.

I am the creater of the artwork for that book cover and I want to release it to Wikipedia without any restrictions or disclaimers. It is that simple! And please don't tell me to go elsewhere to respond. I repeat once more that I drew the original art work for that book cover.

If User:liftarn had notified me (which he did not) when he placed his tag about fair use on September 6, 2006, all of this could have been settled then.

Please remove the tag that was added by Betacommandbot as well as the tag added by User:Liftarn on September 6, 2006. Thanks in advance, - mbeychok (talk) 06:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

After I posted this problem at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions, User:TEB728 removed the two tags and all is well now. That is the trouble with bots, they have no brains. And I wasted over an hour on this silly problem. - mbeychok (talk) 06:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] {{WPSchools}}

Hi, I'm from the Assessment department of the Schools Project. We don't use the auto parameter and have a dedicated assessment team, is there any way to have this bot avoid our template? Adam McCormick (talk) 06:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] {{WPSchools}}

We don't use the auto parameter and have a dedicated assessment team, is there any way to have this bot avoid our template? Adam McCormick (talk) 06:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:A9 1 b.jpg

Hi, you notified me about an image I didn't upload. I will strike that out on my talk page. Any reasons why it did that? Thank you! — Cuyler91093 - Соитяівцтіоиѕ 07:42, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Never mind. I see what I did. I apologize. — Cuyler91093 - Соитяівцтіоиѕ 07:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Images Herc_Giant and Herc_Fight

I put the images Image: Herc Giant.jpg and Image: Herc Fight.jpg get their articles, make sure everything is in order please Bye —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lawless fan (talk • contribs) 00:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

My account is too new to add the image to the article. (It's semi-protected.) In short while I should be able to use it.--Guywithdress (talk) 02:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

the image is orphaned and should be tagged as so. when the image is no longer orphaned you can remove the tag. βcommand 02:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Don't you ever call my edits vandalism again. Consider this a civility warning. You should know better than to spend your time biting new users.--Guywithdress (talk) 02:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
One sec, stepping in here to mediate. Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) 02:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
BetaCommand was correct in his action. Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) 02:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
One your not a new user, you are a return user. Second enforcing policy is not biting. your blind removal of tags is uncalled for. I reverted. I also left another note stating that it was orphaned. you blindly, against policy reverted. that is vandalism. I call a duck a duck. βcommand 02:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Boy, Betacommand, you are worthless. In about 40 minutes, the image will be in the article and you will have wasted about 10 minutes of our time being disruptive and incivil--for nothing. You're violating civility rules by calling me a sockpuppet and by calling my edits vandalism. Plus you violated the 3RR. So, don't pretend like you respect the rules. I don't think Wikipedia is for you.--Guywithdress (talk) 02:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
One I did not call you a sockpuppet, interesting a new user knows that term. I was not being in-civil, and three I did not breach WP:3RR. (Hum, how did you know about that too?). Im just wondering what your previous account was. βcommand 02:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
We can talk about it on the Administrator's Noticeboard in about thirty minutes. It's semi-protected.--Guywithdress (talk) 02:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Sure, just dont forget to reveal what your previous account was. βcommand 02:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I'll be watching. Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) 14:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Wait, it looks like was bluffing. Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) 14:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dude

WHY is your stupid bot flagging my images? Most fall under rules for fair use as covers of board games. Get with the program. Damn this paranoia crap is getting under my nerves MiracleMat (talk) 16:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image "Uggsy Box"

Hiya, your bot added a "disputed rationale" for Image:Uggsy box.jpg. I'm not the original uploader, who seems to have vanished, however I have added what I believe to be a suitable fair use rationale for use of the image. Now that I've done this though, I'm unclear on what I do next - should I just delete the template your bot added, or...? Thanks :) Xmoogle (talk) 17:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Here I am again

Aren't you a busy bee? I'll keep it short. This will be my only response. You want to make this world a poorer place? Go ahead. Delete the images. Delete them all. Then go to that place I read about. Djdaedalus (talk) 13:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

  • I agree. I've permabanned people for spamming talk pages the way you have (you meaning Betacommand, not Djdaedalus). There must be a better way to do this than to flood people's pages, causing them to become overwhelmed and just ignore the messages en masse. You might as well speedy delete the lot. 23skidoo (talk) 14:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
    • If you permaban this bot over the issue of posting notifications to user's talk pages, it'll be unblocked just as fast. This posting of notifications was a requested feature, and was implemented. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nope

Sorry, but this is an example of the worst of Wikipedia practice. Someone adds a tittle to a form - then instead of making the change themselves tries to track down thousands of contributors (many of course no longer present) to force them into compliance with your newest regime. I cannot count the number of times I have been asked to relicense or reformat photo pages. It is perfectly valid as it is. And as it was. If you feel the need to change it yet again, feel free to do so yourself. However stop removing valid and important Wikipedia information. Rmhermen (talk) 14:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

  • See the big stop box above, item #7. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] the poor bot can't spell :)

"(notifing user of invalid Fair Use claim WP:NONFREE)"

Should say "notifying user..." Just a heads up. Enigma (talk) 04:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, what does "49 days left" refer to? Enigma (talk) 04:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
This is a wild guess, but I think it's his birthday.--Sunny910910 (talk|Contributions|Guest) 04:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Its the days till the deadline the wikimedia foundation set for wikipedia to be fair-use image compliant. MBisanz talk 04:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Crunch time, then. Double time! Enigma (talk) 04:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
If Betacommand wants to have it there, then that's his choice. But please understand that the deadline described at Foundation:Resolution:Licensing policy doesn't apply to us. It only applies to projects that didn't have a non-free content policy when the resolution was passed. —Remember the dot (talk) 04:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Remember the dot, that date is when our Exemption Doctrine Policy needs to be compliant. βcommand 04:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Nope, read again: For the projects which currently do not have an EDP in place...
The English Wikipedia did have an EDP in place when this resolution was passed, therefore the Wikimedia Foundation does not ask that we have everything perfectly in line by March 23, 2008. We have time to discuss the merits of keeping or deleting images; we don't have to resort to mass deletion. —Remember the dot (talk) 05:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Also, in addition to the small typo thing, the bot's edit count hasn't been updated in a while. Minor detail. Enigma (talk) 05:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
(notifing user of invalid Fair Use claim WP:NONFREE) Enigma (talk) 19:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Civility

Your recent comments on the administrator's notice board (incidents) are well and truly beyond the limits of what's civil. In particular, "too fucking much to ask?" and "Carnildo has to be an ass" are unacceptable. I'd ask that you attempt in future to phrase concerns of this nature more diplomatically, particularly in light of big Jim's new stance that we should take a "hard line on civility." - 152.91.9.144 (talk) 02:22, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I was not being uncivil an ass may refer to a donkey or jackass which are very stubborn and difficult to work with, in this case its a good parallel. I stand behind what I said. Im not a diplomat, so I say what I mean and mean what I say. βcommand 02:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
You don't help your case by playing games. It wasn't civil.. why not tone it down a bit? Friday (talk) 02:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Don't be surprised by any of this. Betacommand is very good about twisting the definitions of words so that accusations of incivility can't be leveled against him. 68.57.116.116 (talk) 13:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

Hi !

I understand how having your blocked is annoying, as I've experienced this countless times on fr:. I thought about that, and the best that I could come up with was User:DumZiBoT/EditThisPageToStopMe, a soft stop page. Having such a feature really helps : Of course, there are some false positives, and DumZiBoT have been stopped for nothing maybe 1 or 2 times. But consider these same false reports ending on AN/I : One admin could quickly review the request, and eventually block your bot for *nothing*; And overall, having your bot stopped for nothing is better than having your bot blocked for nothing :)

I personally really think that this feature softens bot-related talks, maybe because those who don't understand how bot works have the feeling that if something goes wrong, they will be able to do something, something that is not a plain aggressive block.

I really suggest you to try this :)

(If not stopping the bot, a positive check on the stop page could simply imply some sort of hang, waiting for a console input, a signal, or simply one of your edit on the stop page, it's up to you.)


Cheers,

NicDumZ ~ 14:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

Could you manually fix one of those rationales yourself? That way I can apply that rationale and follow up on other similarly tagged articles by your bot. All your bot does is tag articles, with no indication of what is wrong with my rationales... it's not particularly helpful in that regard. --Madchester (talk) 18:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

you need to state why you need each image and for what page each rationale is for. βcommand 18:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
It's best to learn by example, so I prefer if you fix one of my rationales... I can follow up on them thereafter. Simply tagging an image violation on a user talk page is insufficient in educating an editor on how to prevent such problems in the future. Cheers --Madchester (talk) 19:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
NB - Some other kind editor showed how it was suppose to be done. As a kind suggestion, a bit more explanation in your bot or talk space messages could go a long way in reducing such errors. As an admin, I realize that it's not appropriate to be sticking with a template message or standard policy spiel on every editors talk page. You need to flexible with your approach and communication. Cheers! --Madchester (talk) 19:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair Use

Hi, Betacommand, I've got a question.

I'm not american and I don't live in USA. So, ¿Can I use the fair use in my images? This is a problem that I didn't understand when I learned the Fair Use.

Bye! Mr. Manu (talk) 19:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:IMG 1971.jpg

I'm not interested in discussing the validity or otherwise of use of this image but would note that it has been tagged by your bot on a number of occasions and then removed by the uploader. Could you not develop sufficient records such that if you find an image which you think should be tagged you check whether you've done so in the past and refer it for human intervention of some sort. Regards. Adambro (talk) 23:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:DylanDead.jpg

Greetings, Betacommand. Today, Betacommandbot tagged Image:DylanDead.jpg as having an invalid fair use rationale per Non-Free Content Criterion #10(c), however at the time the image did include a fair use rationale with a link to the specific article in which it is used, i.e. Dylan & The Dead. Did something about the fair use rationale cause the bot to get confused? If you reply here I will see what you say. Thanks. — Mudwater 01:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I fixed that error. βcommand 01:53, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Good. Thanks. — Mudwater 02:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Valentine's Day!

User:Wilhelmina Will has wished you a happy Valentine's day, and good luck in love and friendship!
User:Wilhelmina Will has wished you a happy Valentine's day, and good luck in love and friendship!

A short/sweet little message, which I hope has made your day better! Happy Valentine's Day!!! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 02:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] I give up

Have fun deleting images and ruining wikipedia.--Jack Cox (talk) 23:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Maybe you should consider that it is the policies that are supposedly ruining Wikipedia, since this bot is only do a) approved work and b) work that is entirely in line with policies. If you don't like our policies, work to change them. Insulting the owner of this bot will achieve nothing. Plenty of people have tried, and (no surprise) the work continues. --Hammersoft (talk) 04:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I can understand Jack Cox's annoyance:
  • The bot goes around tagging images faster than people can fix them up
  • It gives a 7 day limit before deletion
  • Many image issues could be fixed by the bot auto-adding the correct template (eg. all album covers follow a similar format for their free-use rationale) rather than leaving what some people perceive as threatening messages
  • Unlike deleted articles, deleted images cannot be retrieved easily (if at all).
-- Chuq (talk) 06:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • There are one bot that tags images and thousands of editors that can fix them. Some editors have fixed thousands of images the last month.
  • It gives a seven day limit, but deletion is not carried out before reasonable time has gone and there seem to be little or no decrease in the unfixed images. I deleted the last images in Disputed non-free images as of 15 January 2008 yesterday. Editors had 30 days to fix the images in that category.
  • Bots can't write rationales. Yes it can write most of what is needed in a rationale, but the purpose should be written by a human. This has been discussed at WP:BRFA and I belive such a bot was declined.
  • Deleted images can be restored just as easily as any article. Rettetast (talk) 09:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
So none of you can understand how a new user might see all of these messages from a faceless bot and be completely overwhelmed by it? I've been here for years but it took me a bit of looking around to find the right template (which I just filled in with generic content - "Image:AlbumName cover.jpg" "fair use on AlbumName article", "use: to illustrate the AlbumName album" "portion: entire album cover" "replaceable - no, its an album cover" - this kind of stuff would be identical for all album art. -- Chuq (talk) 12:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm one of the new(ish) users who was intimidated by BetacommandBot messages. A "rationale" sounds like such a complicated, official sounding thing. "Be bold" went straight out the window for quite a long time, until I was faced with the removal of images from the article of one of my favourite childhood series (The Famous Five). I closed my eyes, gritted my teeth, held my breath, and dove in. Considering that the images in question still exist, I'm assuming the rationale was acceptable. However, it was upon seeing a dispute notice for the poster for The Bridge on the River Kwai, that the camel exceeded it's maximum straw capacity. As a result, for the last 2 days, I have been going through the Betacommandbot contrib list, and rescuing (yes, "rescuing", for that's how I see it) as many images as I can. I guess that Betacommandbot and I aren't going to get on. Whereabouts does the "I want a piece of the bot" line start? Johnmc (talk) 15:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • It starts over at WT:NFC, where you can work to change the policy of Wikipedia such that fair use images are liberally allowed without justification. The bot is doing nothing more than upholding policy. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • WP:NFC doesn't say anywhere that an out-of-control bot can enforce the strictest possible interpretation of the policy according to the bot's own inflexible standards. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 20:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
On "Bots can't write rationales": but they can judge whether those rationales are correct and tag them for deletion? This is the false assumption. This bot enforces an unreasonably strict interpretation of 10c (saying that every fair use image has to have specific things called "rationales" that are readable by this particular bot, even when the rationale is completely obvious to a human). It's disheartening that the bot to do the constructive thing was rejected, while this destructive bot keeps on running. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 20:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Most or all of the album covers tagged by the busybody bot BetacommandBot already have proper tags that clearly mark the album covers as fair use. This excessive tagging is not necessary or helpful and is just make-work interference. Hu (talk) 18:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Hu your wrong, those images have copyright tags but no non-free rationale βcommand 18:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
The spelling is "you're". Since you are so deeply into correcting other people, I hope you appreciate the correction. Hu (talk) 19:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
This bot is seriously out of control. That is all. Enigma (talk) 20:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Nope. It's behaving exactly as it should. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Technically, cancer behaves exactly as it should as well. Which is how I've come to consider this bot. It's a cancer on Wikipedia, consuming images faster than they can be saved. Clayhalliwell (talk) 22:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
No, it's behaving stupidly. It's not recognizing when a fair use rationale has been written and might be missing a single piece of information, and gives the same generic message as if no fair use existed whatsoever. 22:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torc2 (talk • contribs)
  • The example you cite shows the bot worked perfectly. The article on which the image is used is not mentioned in the rationale. This is required via WP:NFC #10c. --Hammersoft (talk) 22:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
No, the bot behaved stupidly. You don't issue a murderer and a jaywalker identical citations that just say "Bad". You give people clear ideas what exactly they have to do to fix it. It's certainly not apparent from the message exactly which part of it is wrong, or why a license that appears to have all the necessary information is insufficient. You give editors clear access to help so they don't feel lost in the machinery. This bot is garbage and its messages are useless. Torc2 (talk) 22:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Torc2, so why dont you write a new message for the bot. βcommand 22:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
That's kind of like asking why I don't try to improve the image of the Klan. I don't agree that what it's doing is necessary or correct, or that automating this is the correct course of action. Want to make the bot seem like less of a dick? Limit the tagging to images that have no information whatsoever, cut the tag rate down to about 100 articles an hour, and space the search order out so that a single editor doesn't have ten photos tagged simultaneously. Torc2 (talk) 22:48, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
This is a clear case where the bot had incorrect behavior, not "perfect" behavior. There was a clearly written rationale (even meeting your technical definition of 'rationale') saying that the album cover was reduced in resolution and was to be used to illustrate the album "!". It was, in fact, only used on the page ! (album), so any human could tell that the rationale was correct. The bot, however, incorrectly believed there to be no rationale. Your interpretation of policy is that we have to cater to a brainless bot that doesn't know that ! (album) refers to the album "!", or else images get deleted. If rationales can't be written by bots, then it's even more true that lack of rationales can't be detected by bots. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 23:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Rspeer, the bot cannot determine the validity of a rationale. Our non-free policy requires the exact name of the article for where the image to be used in the non-free rational. that is what the bot checks for. ! and ! (album) are not the same page. a rational written for one page does not make it valid on another page. all the bot does is check for the article name, one part of a proper rationale. βcommand 23:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I know that a bot can't determine the validity of a rationale, that's what I'm telling you. And you're being inundated with examples of correct rationales that don't include exact matches of the article name, and you dismiss them by defining them by fiat to be incorrect because a bot can't handle them. Which was the point to begin with: a bot cannot handle this task, so right now a bot is rather mishandling it. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 23:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I think it's doing bang up job identifying images which fail WP:NFC #10c. Hundreds of thousands to date. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I know that "rationale" is a precise technical term for you (which your bot does a horrible job of explaining), but to ordinary people the rationale for why you would use an album cover, properly tagged as a fair-use album cover, to illustrate an album, is completely obvious. Avoid Copyright Paranoia. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 20:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

This bot is posting illegitimate warnings. Period. The fact is, images tagged often have exactly the correct rationale. I suspect the real task of the bot is to eliminate all visual contnt from Wikipedia. Sorry if that hurts. Reverting my comments won't change the facts. - Nhprman 03:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:NFCC#10 enforcement

bsd

i recently got your notice on Image:British Midland logo.svg and Image:BMI logo.svg, regarding WP:NFCC#10c, namely: linking the rationale to the article. what caused this, is a move to the article in question. IMHO, this is somewhat exaggerated, considering the image faces the axe, despite the fact that the uploader took the pains to add an appropriate rationale. i think there should be a lesser degree notice to images with inaccurate rationales, than to images with no rationale at all. you can draw a clear line between these two categories. --Ben Stone 07:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Out of compliance is out of compliance. Further, a bot would not readily be able to tell how "good" a rationale is. That is highly subjective. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
    • No, Hammersoft, there is a difference between "no rationale" and "bad rationale" or "incomplete rationale". A human can tell that difference, but the bot can't. Ben Stone has accurately pinpointed the major failing of Betacommandbot, a failing that others have pointed out before and which Betacommand has done nothing to address. It wouldn't matter so much if the deleting admins managed to spot the images with incomplete rationales and fix them, but this doesn't always happen. Carcharoth (talk) 22:33, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • It becomes particularly tricky when, for example, one makes a typo in the article name or the article is moved to a new name. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 22:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
The bot does a wonderful job of identifying images which are not in compliance with WP:NFC #10c. Occasionally, errors crop up which the owner addresses, usually quite rapidly. There isn't an error here. If an admin is overzealous in deleting an image, the error is with the admin, not the bot. Lay blame where it belongs. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi, please do not tell me how to tag images, I'm well aware of what is and what is not fair use. Also, by the looks of this comments page, I'd say you need to turn your bot off. You are clearly not helping Wikipedia, this is only causing a disturbance. Mets (talk) 01:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

agreed. Enigma (talk) 03:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

bsd. well, i guess i stepped on the land mine. i think it all comes down to the basics: arguably, wikipedia's strongest advantage, in the practical sense, is it's evolutionary nature, something that no one else (eg- britannica) can dream competing with. the role of GPL, although vital, is merely that of an enabler: most people don't contribute to fight closed sources, they contribute to make the great resource wikipedia is, even better. in other words, the most important asset wikipedia has is the people, not its political correctness. by being overzealous and non-adaptive in enforcing NFCC, not only does it annoy people to the extreme, but the policy enforcement department has actually fully impersonated those which it is trying to protect wikipedia from: copyright "holders"- dull, overzealous, inconsiderate and unreasonable.

i certainly understand there is a need to manage copyright, but you have to be practical. annoyance must also be managed. that is my point in the first post: an inaccurate rationale is different than no rationale at all, both from:

  • a) the contributor's side: no rationale = 1) definitely inexperienced editor, who has much to learn, or; 2) a sloppy editor, whose contributions may well be a burden. inaccurate rationale = a more experienced user, in most cases some minor tweaking is needed, and on the other hand will definitely take a deletion notice as an offense. btw, this type of enforcement runs squarely against the principle of assumption of good faith.
  • b)the Bot's side: quite easy to distinguish. Hammersoft says that this distinction is highly subjective. well, any objectiveness depends on the framework to which it is applied, hence, "Out of compliance is out of compliance." as he said, is objective from the copyright perspective. unfortunately, it is clearly not so in the practical sense. suffice it to check how much this issue has been debated, or more accurately, battled over.

enough of my yada yada, some practical ideas: draw a loose line between utter crap, and things that need to be improved, and implement it accordingly. a procedure for dealing with crap exists and works well enough. a different procedure for this second category, of work that needs to be improved, should be created. it should be a one month (or any other agreeable time frame) friendly notice, which only then, would be followed by the usual 7 day deletion notice. this method is quite non offensive, and has worked quite well for telecoms and others (eg- friendly notice followed by disconnection notice). it would cut much of this totally unnecessary friction. if it's true, as someone mentioned above, that the actual time until a file is deleted is much longer than 7 days, using the procedure i suggest shouldn't change much, after all, if the objective is a minor fix, it wouldn't hurt another 3 weeks of waiting.

if anybody who is actively involved in policy making likes my idea, please further it, i'm way too lazy for that! if you don't agree, at least further the idea that we need an alternative to the current "weapons of mass distraction" approach. on a side note to our own homebrew "patent trolls": you ought to change your disdain attitude towards brands and copyrighted material (eg- "who needs this stuff anyway"), fair use is an integral part of free speech, and is here for us, not against us. sorry for the post formatting! --Ben Stone 07:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stop

End the madness. Enigma (talk) 20:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

  • What madness? The bot is enforcing policy. Perhaps your comments are misdirected? Perhaps you wanted to work to change the policy instead? If that's the case, you may wish to start a discussion on the topic at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content. --Hammersoft (talk) 20:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
No. The policy is fine. The bot isn't. There are better ways to enforce policy. Enigma (talk) 20:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • This has been debated ad nauseum, with the overwhelming response being that yes, we do want the bot doing this work exactly as it is doing it now. --Hammersoft (talk) 20:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • At least fix its edit summary message, then. It's spelled wrong. Enigma (talk) 21:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Which edit summary? --Hammersoft (talk) 21:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
The standard message it leaves. (notifing user of invalid Fair Use claim WP:NONFREE). The bot is posting the same messages thousands of times. They should at least be spelled correctly. Also, it should probably be ensure, not insure. Enigma (talk) 21:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
The overwhelming response here that the bot is wreaking havoc doesn't count? Where was this overwhelming response in favor of it? Last I saw this discussed on a prominent board (Administrator's Noticeboard, I think), there were hardly any people in favor of it. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 23:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • There's been heavy debate on this before, with the result that the bot's work has continued. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • First it's "overwhelming response", then it's "heavy debate". How about you show me so I can see for myself if there's consensus for it? rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 23:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I posted in 3 appropriate forums the exact issue about the destructive nature of this policy as applied by this bot and the people who use it, rather than thinking as a contributor and put in effort to fix the highlighted images or address why so many images are labelled correctly. Absolutely no discussion was forthcoming, or any precedents pointed out. MickMacNee (talk) 23:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
    • Fine. I'll dig and find some, if you think it's necessary. This bot has performed more than 700,000 edits. Some common sense should come into play here. If this bot was *really* doing something that the community just can't get behind, don't you think it would have been permanently stopped long before it got to 100,000 edits much less 700,000? --Hammersoft (talk) 23:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I haven't heard too many in support of it either. I think this bot does more harm than good. Its edit count doesn't prove a thing. Enigma (talk) 23:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • It proves quite a bit. If this bot actually caused as much damage as you bot haters think it does, it would have been stopped a LONG time ago. But that's not the case. In fact, it's been operating for a very long time and has performed hundreds of thousands of edits. As for prior debates, have a look through [4]. There's tons of debates regarding this subject buried in there if you are truly interested. Despite all these debates, despite all the electrons that have been spent, despite all the keystrokes spent debating this....the bot continues to operate. Why do you think that is? Do you think it's because a) the bot owner refuses to listen to anyone, and nobody has the courage to block him or b) the bot is operating with the support of the community? --Hammersoft (talk) 23:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, but I'm going with A. The bot owner has refused to listen on multiple occasions and I can personally attest to this. Enigma (talk) 23:33, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • So it would follow that it would have been permanently blocked long before. Except, that's not happened. Oops. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Tell you what; why don't you bring this up at WP:AN. Nevermind that it's been brought up dozens of times before, and the bot has passed muster every time. I'm sure this brand new discussion will result in the bot being shut down. So, start the discussion. Hell, you're talking to the wrong person anyways. I can't shut it down; I'm not an admin. You believe the bot owner ignores people, so he won't shut it down either. You're wasting your breath on this talk page. So, bring it up at WP:AN. When that fails to get you the response you want, you can try the next steps in the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution process and take it all the way to ArbCom. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
No. I'm commenting on the Talk page and this is my opinion. I'm not bringing this up at WP:AN. Saying a bot has made hundreds of thousands of edits without being shut down proves absolutely nothing except that no one has taken the drastic step of shutting down the bot. The bot's owner has been shown to ignore people. You say you can't shut it down. Terrific. Am I talking to you? No. You keep inserting yourself into the conversation. Enigma (talk) 23:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Well you don't think the bot owner will listen to you, and it's obvious you're not getting anywhere convincing me. Why was it you were complaining here again? --Hammersoft (talk) 23:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I've watched those AN discussions. They don't show the overwhelming support for the bot that you're claiming. Also, I know exactly why the bot gets unblocked each time. It seems that the only way to get Betacommand to listen to people is to block his bot, but we can't because RfC stops working when we do. By writing a monolithic bot without releasing the source code, Betacommand wields power over even admins. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 23:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Well then I'm sure it will be a trivial thing to get the bot shut down. Let me know how it goes. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
My intent was never to convince you of anything because I know you'd never be convinced. My comments are not directed at you. Enigma (talk) 23:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • If they're not directed at me, and you know the bot owner won't listen to you...why are you posting on this talk page? I'm quite confused. Who is your intended audience here? --Hammersoft (talk) 23:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm registering complaints with the bot, whether they're listened to by the owner or not. I think it's helpful to have all the gripes posted somewhere, whether the bot owner is willing to address them or not (clearly he's just interesting in deleting the complaints). If you have nothing constructive to add, I don't see why you keep responding. Enigma (talk) 03:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Enigma, yes I revert things that should not be on this page, personal attacks an comments that should be added to another users talkpage. βcommand 03:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for replying. The last one was borderline, but it was a pretty funny rant about anti-image jihadists. Enigma (talk) 03:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I found it offensive. If you think there are issues that I am not addressing please create a new section with a list of them and Ill address them. βcommand 03:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
And I find the Deletionist Jihad itself offensive, and your deletion of my comment (and second one) VERY ironic. I will post this 100,000 times if necessary. Maybe I'll create a bot to do it. - Nhprman 03:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Double tagging

Why did the bot double-tag this page? Talk:Delaware_Otsego_Corporation I added a rationale, you'd think that would have been good enough for a rationale-seeking robot. RussNelson (talk) 22:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Please see this βcommand 22:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • It was double tagged because the bot correctly identified it as lacking proper rationale, tagged it as such [5], then you removed the warning without entirely fixing the problem [6] and it properly re-identified the image as still lacking [7]. Thus, two notifications. --Hammersoft (talk) 22:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

^Thanks. Sorry, I missed the part about linking to the article that the rationale covers. It's only used one one article, so I thought it would be obvious, but I guess the bot isn't smart enough. RussNelson (talk) 03:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Furious Dragon.jpg

I fixed the issues with Image:Furious dragon.jpg and subsequently deleted the warning. Thanks for pointing it out. Robhakari (talk) 22:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Question

Is it asking so much to ask that the edit count be updated and the typos in the bot's messages be fixed? Enigma (talk) 23:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

the typo should be fixed, and Ill update the edit count when I feel like it. βcommand 23:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for being reasonable and polite. I appreciate it. Enigma (talk) 23:33, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Horizons-_Empire_of_Istaria_logo.jpg

Added a fair use rationale - I hope this appeases the Wiki gods. Cheers. Peter1968 (talk) 00:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What is this?

I have a load of messages saying that this bot is going to delete images. I've been through all this with another bot. Not going to bother this time. Just delete them.--Moonlight Mile (talk) 00:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Holy crap I can't believe people have just deleted these images just because the uploader is pissed off with this bot. So much for community effort to provide fair use rationales. MickMacNee (talk) 01:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • If an uploader requests deletion, it's perfectly valid to speedy delete the images. Please see Wikipedia:CSD#General_criteria criteria #7, which is the criteria under which the images were deleted. All done according to policy. Enjoy, --Hammersoft (talk) 02:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Yes, great. Thanks. Not that I didn't know that already. The issue is just that little bit deeper. MickMacNee (talk) 05:53, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Why is this bot adding deletion tags to football club logos without notifying me, the original uploader of the logos and the only contributor to them? This means that any logos I have contributed to articles that are no longer on my watchlist are highly likely to get deleted. I thought the main purpose of the bot was supposed to be to get fair use rationales fixed, not enforce the deletion of images. English peasant 00:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

to name a few. I just changed my username today, but the bot followed the redirect to my new talkpage 11 times since then, before it stopped botheringEnglish peasant 00:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

  • It looks like the bot and the rename were underway at the same time. There's no way of predicting when the renames will occur, so it's kinda hard to correct this. The bot did properly inform you on other occasions today [8]. Hope this helps, --Hammersoft (talk) 00:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
    • It informed me correctly after the rename process was complete. It stopped informing me between 23:23 and 23:38 and has not informed me of anything since then despite tagging at least 4 images I uploaded. Perhaps the should be stopped if it is not informing people of its actions? English peasant 00:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
the full re-name process can take several hours. βcommand 00:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Just to let you know that I provided rationales for the 11 that I was notified of on my talkpage + another 20 the bot didn't even notify me of. I would have liked to contribute to the encyclopaedia this evening but I had to trawl through bot edits instead. Perhaps you could run it at a slower speed next time, I mean most editors are going to give up if they see more than 10 or so aren't they? English peasant 01:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
See my attempt to explain that concept above. MickMacNee (talk) 01:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scott Hahn / Rome Sweet Home

Since I happened to notice that you asked for one I've just added a free-use rationale at Image:Home-rome.jpg for its use as an illustration in Scott Hahn. I didn't upload it, but I happen to have bought a copy of the book recently, so I could supply the details required. But as I say, I have no idea whether it suffices and am not convinced the article would suffer unduly by the image's absence. I'll remove the bot-tag anyway, just so it doesn't get auto-deleted in a few days. You can re-tag if you think it necessary. --Paularblaster (talk) 01:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hmm...

Whether or not an image may be used in a forum such as Wikipedia is not something I wish to challenge. If we want text only and no images, then that's okay with me. No hard feelings or anything... but I simply want to contribute to make this a better resource for everybody. I understand my weight in this forum (or lack thereof) and will simply abide by whatever decisions are made by TPTB... but I will also consider whether my time and energies are better used doing something other than contributing to this forum.

Again, no hard feelings -- it simply is what it is...

Dwacon (talk) 01:47, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Dwacon, we welcome your contributions, since the bot flagged some of your images please do not be offended. there are just some issues with the images you uploaded. please see this guide on writing rationales for images and our non-free image policy βcommand 01:50, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I think i fixed it.

Hey i kinda dixed up to non-free rational for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Infernaldevices1.jpg, you can take down the warning. Thanks mickyfitz13 Talk 13:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

You need to make sure that you state the EXACT article name in the rationale. I have added it in for you this time and removed the tag. Woody (talk) 13:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] disambiguation pages

This bot needs to take into account that pages get moved and disambiguation pages created. I'm getting a dozen notices from this bot daily that radio station logos I've uploaded have invalid fair use because the pages they are used on have moved names.

Yes the fair use information needs to be updated but I'd like to see this situation handled a little more gracefully. If the page specified is a disambiguation page, the bot could look at the links on the disambiguation page, find the updated article title and update the article link in the fair use notice on that image. At the very least the bot could post a more helpful message and give more than a week for editors to fix the problem.--Rtphokie (talk) 14:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] The Robotic Touch

It's highly impersonal, impolite and abrasive to harass people about image tagging via a bot. I would really like if you desist and leave the job to humans who personally leave messages for people rather than spamming them.

As someone who has been here for four years or so and an admin for about 3, I would suggest the likes of your bot do not enhance the environment at Wikipedia, but merely contribute to the growing social problems here.

Regards, zoney ♣ talk 15:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Zoney, Ive been lot more active than you, What the bot does do is handle a task that humans cannot. it enforces policy. My bot is far from causing the problems that are appearing on en.wiki βcommand 16:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Happy Valentine's Day!

User:Wilhelmina Will has wished you a happy Valentine's day, and good luck in love and friendship!

A short/sweet little message, which I hope has made your day better! Happy Valentine's Day!!! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 02:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Tell me how to exempt my talk page from the bot

I want the bot to stop spamming my talk page. I have no interest in doing anything with the images since I no longer support the use of images on Wikipedia of any type. There are other users who are selflessly giving up their time to make images I and others have uploaded adhere to the ever-changing policy. I was told that there is a code that can be added to a talk page that excludes bots from leaving messages and if this is true I want to know what it is. And in fact I suggest it be included on the boilerplate so that others who don't give a damn anymore can keep their talk pages from being flooded with what can only be called spam. If someone wants to see how bad it's gotten, please look at my talk page which has been spammed unto USELESSNESS. And for the record the only reason all my crap is being bot'ted is because someone decided a pretty template is needed. Everything I did was good and proper at the time i uploaded the images and the fact someone else changed the rules is not my concern. If this question has been asked on an archive page, please provide a link here. And if anyone brings up the whole "Wikipedia community" thing, I hope they include their mailing address so that I can invoice them my professional editing rate (in real life) of $75 an hour, prorated for the thousands of hours I've wast...spent contributing to this place. Thank you. 23skidoo (talk) 03:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Edits of images

Regarding Image:Cdn-dime-obverse.jpg and Image:Cdn-dime-reverse.jpg I wasn't the creator of this image. It was user 'thirty-seven'. My work on this image is merely as follows, from the work log of the image:

"Modification of previous (thirty-seven's) image; JASC Paint Shop Pro, convert to Monochrome followed by contrast enhancement, to remove offending copper color from our dime which is silver colored. For original credits, please refer to previous image." Mdrejhon (talk) 16:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

So, I don't think I'm the correct person to send the warning to, since I merely downloaded the image, adjusted the saturation/contrast/brightness, and re-uploaded. Mdrejhon (talk) 16:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Mdrejhon, the bot notified all uploaders. βcommand 16:46, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please! Some more time!

After a brief hiatus, I've found 15 image FUR requests on my page for Feb. 13-14 alone! You can see from the notices above these that I've been diligent in trying to apply fair-use rationales where I can. (In a couple of cases, even pulling back and going along with an image-deletion that in retrospect did seem proper and necessary.) But 15 in two days is an awful lot to ask. I think the policy is down to two days after a notice goes up, and I would just ask for a few more, say a week, to address them all one way or another. Thanks for understanding, --Tenebrae (talk) 00:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

20,000 images were run in those 2 days, I don't believe (stifles a laugh) that this is a regular occurance, keep at it and try and get them correct, despite the nasty bot threats. MickMacNee (talk) 00:54, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] A mistake?

The bot tagged Image:Central a.jpg with a non-free license. Shouldn't anything with a {{HKCrownCopyright}} be skipped by the bot automatically. The crown government technically does not exist anymore in Hong kong. If a government ceased to operate before wikipedia even exist, this license needs to be treated as some kind of {{old}}. Anyone is welcome to respond to my talk page. I am adding a temporary fairuse license. Benjwong (talk) 01:27, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind I will take this to fairuse discussion first. Benjwong (talk) 01:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] BetacommandBot now attempting to delete all book cover images, despite Wiki's policy to keep them.

This Bot is now apparently tagging all book covers images for deletion, despite Wiki policy to the contrary. Please fix this.

tks

Scott P. (talk) 04:55, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a misunderstanding of the tags. See: Image_talk:Disappearance-of-universe-book.gif#Fair_use_rationale. Vassyana (talk) 05:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Has my question already been answered?

I'm very sorry that I'm not a robot and have to do things "manually", but I'm not about to spend hours looking through 21 archive files to see if someone might have previously asked the question I would like to ask. Have you given any thought to providing a method by which users may quickly and easily determine if their question has previously been answered? Awaiting your reply, Pdfpdf (talk) 09:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

  • A number of common responses are in the big grey box at the top. Might be of some help. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Correct image on the right page for the right reason, but rationale has shortcomings ...

I'm not sure how much of this is a "bot" issue, and how much is an "image" issue, so I'm posting this question in both places.
If I understand the policies, guidelines, etc. correctly, the appearance of the company's logo on the WP page about the company, the album cover on the WP page about the album, and the school's logo on the WP page about the school are all "correct" usages.
However, I frequently see BetacommandBot "Fair use rationale" messages complaining about the inadequacy of the rationale.
Two questions:

  1. Given that these are "correct" usages, why does it matter if the rationale is imperfect?
  2. Given that these are "correct" usages, why is a generic rationale not acceptable?

Awaiting your reply, Pdfpdf (talk) 09:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The logo template ({{Non-free logo}} specifically states [emphasis in original] [emphasis added]:
“ This tag is meaningless without an accompanying fair use rationale which must be unique to the usage of THIS image in each article in which it is used. You must also give the source and copyright information for all fair-use images uploaded. ”
The album cover template ({{Non-free album cover}}) specifically states [emphasis in original] [emphasis in original] [emphasis added]:
“ To the uploader: please add a detailed fair use rationale for each use, as described on Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline, as well as the source of the work and copyright information. ”
WP:NFCC explains the basic reasoning and lays out the very restrictive circumstances in which fair-use images should be employed. WP:FURG#Necessary components lays out the minimal requirements for a valid fair use rationale. Vassyana (talk) 10:20, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've read all that stuff before, and I believe I understand it. However, you haven't addressed my questions, viz:

  1. Given that these are "correct" usages, why does it matter if the rationale is imperfect?
  2. Given that these are "correct" usages, why is a generic rationale not acceptable?

Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

A detailed unique rationale for each use is required by the policy, for the reasons stated in the policy (and because a Foundation-level policy requires it). Bear in mind the usage is not "correct" if not accompanied by an appropriate rationale. Vassyana (talk) 11:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Enough of the fallacy that the bot enforces correct anything. All you need to do to not be tagged by the bot is state each article name in an otherwise gibberish piece of text. Seriously, we are not talking about a sophisticated piece of A.I. here, it is one persons attempt at coding a super tagging machine, it enforces nothing. MickMacNee (talk) 11:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, a detailed rationale is required, I'm not questioning that. I am asking:

  1. (Given that these are "correct" usages), why does it matter if the rationale is imperfect?
  2. (Given that these are "correct" usages), why is a generic rationale (with gaps for required specific information) not acceptable? Pdfpdf (talk) 11:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
As far as I understand your questions, the answers are provided above. Could you perhaps rephrase the questions or better explain what you are asking? Vassyana (talk) 11:35, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, but gotta go right now. Will respond later Pdfpdf (talk) 11:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Freedom Ships

I have had help add the fair use and the non free tag i just need to ask you can the tag yet be removed HAHA70000 —Preceding comment was added at 17:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


I'm sure you'll block me for saying it, but you are the most annoying cunt on Wikipedia. Cardinal Wurzel (talk) 19:08, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] {{WorldCoin}} and {{WorldCoinGallery}}

{{WorldCoin}} and {{WorldCoinGallery}} are image licence tags. You should exempt images with those templates — or everything transcluding {{ConfirmationImageOTRS}}, if possible — from your bot's messages. — OwenBlacker (Talk) 19:54, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

those images should not be labled as non-free. which is why the bot tagged them βcommand 20:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Courtesy notice.

I have begun a WP:ANI thread about this bot here - [9] Exxolon (talk) 22:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Pio.gif

Betacommand, you (or your bot) tagged that image as being orphaned. It's actually not orphaned, the links below the image pretty much prove that point. I removed your template as it was in error. Just a heads up for you ! KoshVorlon ".. We are ALL Kosh..." 18:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Non-free content/orphans and our non-free policy. that image is non-free and not used in the mainspace. Non-free content is not allowed in userspace. βcommand 19:01, 12 February 2008 (UTC)



Betacommand - the picture you keep removing is a generic drawing of a rooster. You first tagged it as being orphaned which it wasn't. Now you tag it as a copyright infrigement. Not possible as the image itself isn't copyrighted. Stop templating the image. Also, your threat to block is not within policy - I uploaded an image which , itself , is not copyrighted (www.oceansideemmaus.org/Pio.gif). If it's not copyrighted, there can be no violation. I realize you have a tough job and people yell at you all the time. I absolutely not willing to be one of them. Keep up the good work Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoshVorlon (talk • contribs) 21:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

its copyright from the page that you linked to GoDaddy.com, Inc. All rights reserved. it is copyrighted βcommand 22:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Beta, the page is copyrighted. The image is not. Your tag is incorrect and therefore

will continue to be reverted as this image is neither orphaned nor non-free under wiki's guidlines which state:

For purposes of this policy "non-free content" means all copyrighted images and other media files that lack a free content license. Such material may be used on the English Wikipedia only where all 10 of the following criteria are met

... Bottom line - the image is not in violation of any regulation. The tag will be reverted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoshVorlon (talk • contribs) 13:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

show me where that image is free. if the page is copyrighted, images on it are also. βcommand 14:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)



SO let me see if I understand this: In patrolling images, you found the image Pio.gif and believe it to be in violation of terms, and therefore you tagged it. I have no problem with that. However, after the uploader has explained more than once that the image is not copyrighted and therefore not a violation you still continue to tag, and insist that I'm in the wrong. Sorry - that doesn't wash. The image is not copyrighted. Bottom line. I saw what you wrote above, and it's rubbish. Using your logic, I could then say that my template is copyrighted to me because I created the damn thing, but you and I know that's pure bullshit. Leave my damn image alone, your template is incorrect and I will continue to revert it every time you put it on . Capisce ? KoshVorlon ".. We are ALL Kosh..." 15:15, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of that, you have the image as being non-free. That, in itself is ok, but by policy, non-free images must' and can only only be used within mainspace articles - not on talk pages, user pages, or any other namespace. "What Links Here" for the image shows its only use is on a user talk page, which is invalid, so first you need to link it to a main-space article page, and then once linked, you need a valid rationale for its use on that article page. --MASEM 14:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
The template you created is clearly licensed under the GFDL, as is all text available on this website. Every edit box says the following: "You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL". Therefore, we know, and, can prove the copyright status of edits you've made here. As for the image you have uploaded, we cannot, as I outlined on your talkpage. Furthermore, while I understand that you are frustrated, please, try to be civil when interacting with other users here. SQLQuery me! 15:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] You need to calm your bot down

It is just rubbing people up the wrong way. I see 7 articles on my watchlist that the bot has tagged within the last 6 hours - the FU tagging is getting worse, and is starting to annoy me (and by the look of this talk page many others). Sure FU rationale need to be provided - and sure that is something that should, methodically, be worked on - but going around tagging thousands of images per hour as being "about to be deleted" (no they are not, dumb bot) is completely ridiculous and is just seriously annoying a lot of people. Please throttle the bot back or I will post a note on AN - sensible time frames and availabilities of editors should be used to deal with the FU issue, not the mass tagging/deletions going on here. SFC9394 (talk) 00:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

  • I suggest you post to WP:AN. The rapidity of the bot's actions has been debated before, and upheld as proper. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Please cite them SFC9394 (talk) 00:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Have a look through [10] searching for "betacommand". --Hammersoft (talk) 00:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Jesus Christ. This is impossible. Any attempts to address the issue have gone nowhere, and Betacommand reverts my comments if I try to address you. Enigma (talk) 01:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Settle down, please. Users are completely allowed to remove comments from their own talkpages. See: Wikipedia:TALK#User_talk_pages SQLQuery me! 13:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm perfectly calm, and I'm also completely aware of Wikipedia's policies on Talk pages. I was just commenting on the difficulty of getting anything done here. The discussion has moved elsewhere. Enigma (talk) 17:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Moved warning



Please stop. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did to Pio.gif, you will be blocked from editing. The status of this image (Not copyrighted) has already been explained to you. Repeated tagging of this image is considering vandalism and will be reverted as such—Preceding unsigned comment added by KoshVorlon (talk • contribs)

I moved this warning to the bottom of the page, and fixed the wikilink, to keep this talkpage readable. This is in no way an endorsement of this warning. SQLQuery me! 14:55, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Question

I'm not sure if this was brought up before, but it looks to me that a lot of the images BetaCommandBot is flagging have articles that were either moved or redirected and the original article the image was used for had been altered to remove it. Would it be possible to automatically fix the article the image cited to the new one? --Ouzo (talk) 16:21, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Read or Dream Non-Free/Fair Use Templates Added

This bot posted three "disputes" regarding the lack of the non-free/fair use templates for the images associated with the article Read or Dream. I have added these templates and provided information on the copyright owner and the source.

I am not complaining, but noting that I found the Wikipedia articles on the non-free/fair use templates a little confusing and therefore I cannot be 100% certain I added everything correctly. If there is still something wrong with the images/templates and a human editor is able to check on this, I'd appreciate that happening before the images are deleted unnecessarily. Thanks very much. DeathQuaker (talk) 15:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] "dispute" disputed

I dispute the term "dispute" and "invalid" (e.g. Image:Ch_m_michelle.gif.) It's just a robot. It's using an algorithm to determine compliance with Non-Free Images policy. Instead of saying that a "dispute" exists, if the rationale doesn't link to the article it should simply say that. I propose instead this language:

Hi. This is the BetacommandBot robot. I've noticed that there's a rationale for $image but it doesn't link to the article to which it applies. According to Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline, each and every use of the image must be justified as fair use. Please edit $image and provide a reason why this copyrighted or trademarked image may be freely copied. Nobody will delete the image prior to $date.

I do believe that a portion of the hostility to BetacommandBot is due to the language it uses. RussNelson (talk) 16:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Bug: BetacommandBot makes multiple identical reports

When BetacommandBot finds multiple non-compliant rationales, it will insert an unlimited (as far as I can see) number of citations into the talk page(s) that reference those images. See, for example, Talk:Read_or_Dream where there are four. It would be an improvement if it consolidated all the rationale notices into one citation. RussNelson (talk) 16:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Point 15 is total rubbish

I have just added the title of the article to an already existing fair use rationale on an article that most likely gets very few views, and thus would have been deleted. Pure and utter laziness. MickMacNee (talk) 23:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

  • This is a bot. Not a human. A bot can't be "lazy", and further a bot can not write rationales or evaluate rationales for some characteristics because they are highly subjective. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • The people operating the bot can look at the tagged images and take the 10 seconds it took to fix the issue in this instance.
  • One person operates this bot. One. This bot has over 700,000 edits. 10 seconds times even 100,000? More than 11 days of editing, non-stop, to attempt compliance with the images. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Don't you see that as a problem with the policy/tags/established procedures when there are that many edits to be made by this bot? My issue is it's operation with a complete lack of any kind of parallel good faith group effort to fix what are 99% newbie errors. These images are lost after your arbitrary time limit, often with interested parties never even seeing the tags, never mind being able to understand them. I only encounter the stupid thing once in a while, but who is systematically examining tagged images? Leaving it to the uploader is a total cop-out in my opinion, and probably puts many new editors off. Remember here, I am not talking about an image here with no rationale, it was ALL there bar one tiny mistake, on a non-busy article, thus the image dissapears forever on the dodgy premise of it's too hard to fix it. MickMacNee (talk) 23:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Don't you see that as a problem when it takes that many edits to keep up with the massive influx of improperly rationaled images??? We tried doing it with humans. It failed. That's why this bot is so necessary. This attack on the bot and countless others have all been raised before. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • The bot fails too, just in a different and more spectacular way. How about you have the bot deal with new images, now that the upload wizard includes tools to provide the appropriate rationales, and stop messing with old images that were uploaded with proper tags before this idea of a "rationale" existed, or had a rationale but the page was moved, or have a reasonable rationale written by a reasonable human which doesn't satisfy your bot? Then you don't have an "influx" anymore. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 23:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I'm not convinced when you can't link to any actual debates or established consensus over the use of the bot, in addition to the complete non-reply to me raising the issue a few months ago on all the appropriate pages. Given the amount of times you are referring to previous debates, you might at least have a handy link to them, or do you just not get the idea that I have that the same complaints are occuring every time this bot runs. Christ, even having the 17! point massive 'dont blame me' box should tell you something about the way things are currently being done. MickMacNee (talk) 23:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • If a bot can't evaluate rationales, why are you trying to use it for exactly that purpose? rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 23:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • It's not being used for that purpose. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Have you ever made a good faith effort to assesss as a percentage of tagged images, how many are being dumped that are easily fixed and not actually causing a major breach of copyright? MickMacNee (talk) 23:39, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • No, nor have I made any bad faith efforts in that area either. I don't work in that arena. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • You devote so much effort to defending a bot that deletes images as purported copyright violations, but you never look at how many of them are actually copyright violations? rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 23:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • The bot doesn't delete any images. It doesn't have the admin flag. I think you're misunderstanding what this bot does. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Bot tags image, uploader doesn't see tag in time, other good faith editors like me who see 7! similar taggings on their watchlist tonight lose the will to even investigate possible bot errors, no parallel community effort is harnessed in parallel to the bot, deleting admin is not interested in fixing as per the attitude at the top of this page i.e. it's not our job, we don't work in that field, bingo, image deleted and lost. What are you not getting about that process, and the obvious role the bot's current operation plays in it? MickMacNee (talk) 00:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Previously debated. I encourage you to view the archive index I previously cited and spend some time reading the prior debates. What I am not getting is why we are having this debate, when it's been debated before with the conclusion being that the bot continues the work. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Again, as it seems you get complaints a million times when you run this bot, why don't you already have a handy list of links to specific decisions and precedents for pissed off people to look at? Judging at the rate of growth of this page alone tonight, dismissing someone to go peruse the archives is a blatant bad faith attitude. MickMacNee (talk) 00:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • First, I don't own or run this bot. Second, that's the second time you've accused me of bad faith. I strongly, strongly, strongly urge you to seek out another administrator to have me blocked as soon as possible to stop my bad faith edits. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • It's blatantly bad faith when you enter a discussion, take a position based on previous debates which no sane person would spend time finding in vague archive references, then claiming it's all nothing to do with you anyway. You are clearly on the wind up. MickMacNee (talk) 00:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • It was previously asked to find prior discussions. I did. Now you're accusing me of bad faith for finding those discussions? Who's on the wind up again? I'm confused. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • You haven't found anythong. Pointing to talk archives means nothing in an issue that clearly everyone except you can see is a hotly contested bot. You are absolutely 100% on the total wind up. MickMacNee (talk) 00:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Wow. Ok, look, above you asked for some feedback on prior discussions. I gave it to you. Now you're accusing me of doing something *bad* because I gave you partially what you wanted? If you don't want to go through those archives to search for the answers, what motivation does anyone have to find the answers for you? I gave you an entirely proper link to help you in your search. You just don't want to do the work to find the answers you want. I *helped* you, but that's not enough...you want me to do all your work for you. And *I* am the one acting in bad faith? *I* am the one "100% on the total wind up????? Ok, enough of this discussion, as it's clearly gone off the deep end. Please let me know when you make the request to block me and/or file an ArbCom case to get this bot permanently blocked. Thanks, --Hammersoft (talk) 00:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • It would be nice to see you stop pretending that it should be the many many editors being pissed off by this bot to have to repeatedly go find these what look like increasingly mythical overwhelming debates that all us stoopid people don't get. It would be nice if you could hold a discussion without bringing up ridiculous strawmen, it would be nice if you followed up with your assertions, or explain why you think there are no links on this page to these oft referenced decisions and debates, it would be nice if you addressed the actual points being made regarding the bots defficiencies and obvious flaws or even acknowledge its wider role in getting images deleted, rather than resorting to "it's not my job/remit/wikititle" (why are you even here then on a talk page about the bot?) and "if it was that bad it would be blocked" (which it has been many times), it would be nice if your whole attitude changed really and you acted less like a wind up merchant and more like a contributor. MickMacNee (talk) 01:05, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I don't intend to respond to your comments because of your devolution into hate filled vitriol. I suggest you read WP:NPA. I've already told you where to look. I'm not going to do you work for you, most especially when you think it a great motivator to insult me to get me to do you work. Have the last word if you like, but in the process please make sure you request I be blocked. You might try making such a request at WP:AN/I. Thank you, and good day. --Hammersoft (talk) 02:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Your vague dismissals in here, your general comments such as that, and deletion of images on the grounds of what are minor errors, are all bad faith in my opinion. MickMacNee (talk) 23:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Really? Ok. Please request I be blocked. Thanks, --Hammersoft (talk) 23:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • This comment and others on here aren't giving me the impression you know what blocks are for. MickMacNee (talk) 00:10, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • If you think I'm acting in bad faith, then my edits are a disruption to the project. That's a blockable offense. I'm sure you'll be able to find an admin to agree with your conclusion that I am acting in bad faith. Therefore, I request you please go and find an uninvolved administrator to perform the block. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 00:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • That would mean finding a contributor that hasn't found a blatant error with this bot's operation, as I see it that only realy leaves you, so block yourself please and leave us to get on with our rationales. MickMacNee (talk) 00:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Above you stated that I was acting in bad faith. That's got nothing to do with the bot. Bad faith edits are disruptive to the project and a blockable offense. I assume you meant what you said, yes? Or did you not mean to say that I was acting in bad faith? Also, I'm not an administrator, so I can't block myself. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • HEY GUYS! :-) I'm a bit late here, but you are both arguing back and forth here. It doesn't look pretty. Hammersoft, you are coming across as over-defensive. Why not politely redirect people to the help desk, instead of increasing the heat on this page? Mick, I understand this annoys you, but why not walk away if you feel Hammersoft's replies are winding you up? Carcharoth (talk) 05:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Frankly I find myself agreeing with Hammersoft and BetaCommand all the way.--WaltCip (talk) 14:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  • And that response to my attempt to calm things down helps how? Carcharoth (talk) 10:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion on notices

Before the next run, could you create a "short notice" version, that says something brief like "An image you've edited, $1, has been tagged for deletion. <sig>"? If there is already a B-bot notice on a user page, add the short form to that section. Same for article talk pages with a variant short notice. Also, I'm not sure how many other editors would get annoyed, but I would like some (brief) notice if any image I've ever edited were tagged. Gimmetrow 23:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

This would be nice. Or at lump all the day's notices into list. I often have a dozen notices (some "helpful" editors have gone on an article renaming tear lately and NEVER update the images) and these repetitive notices could be made much more user friendly.--Rtphokie (talk) 23:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lag, and is this the right way to handle this case?

How much lag is the bot working with now? Reason I ask is the bot sent notices for one image at 23:03 and 23:04, but the image had been removed at 22:46.

I'm also wondering if this is the right way to handle this case. The fair use rationale was written up for one article, then the image was incorrectly added to a second article. This is a problem in the second article, not the first. Gimmetrow 03:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

βcommand, I would really like a response on these two issues. These could reasonably be construed as bugs. Gimmetrow 23:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I am not sure what caused the lag, Ive been looking into it, BCBot normal only as a minute or two lag. βcommand 00:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Salute!

The Working Man's Barnstar
For continuing to enforce the policy set forth at WP:NFCC and putting up with those editors who would blame you for enforcing it, rather than the policy writers or the original image uploaders, I award you this barnstar. Please keep up the good work and don't let the naysayers deter you - for every editor who complains profusely about your warnings, there is an editor who learned the FURG and has benefited from it. JPG-GR (talk) 05:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Now with extra nose oil, to keep it running smoothly! -- SEWilco (talk) 05:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WMF deadline and Betacommandbot (discussion notices)

Hi Betacommand. Please see:

For obvious reasons, it would be good if you could comment over there, or find your way to where-ever the discussion ends up. Carcharoth (talk) 10:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I found ya fair use fo Image:ChangingFaces.jpg

Your bot just put up some deletion stuff fo that image. I now have a fair use clause for it, and you can take down the deletion notice asap. Besides, it's another day at work for me. -iaNLOPEZ1115 TaLKBaCK Vandalize it UBX 12:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] commons image moving

Has the script finished or is it still running? Added a few more when I realised you'd begun... Timeshift (talk) 16:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Once it starts it only moves whats tagged when it starts. βcommand 16:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Ah. Btw, what happened here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here? The description is not there but is when I click edit... Timeshift (talk) 00:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

You may be interested in a discussion in Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Bleveret/Userbox/BCBruin. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 12:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bot malfunction

Looks like BetacommandBot (talk · contribs) is trying to subst {{deprecation notice}}, but it's just escaping the front part of the template (see [11]). Mackensen (talk) 01:45, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

thanks, Ill fix. βcommand 01:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Mackensen (talk) 03:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bot malfunction

The recent behavior of BetacommandBot (talk · contribs) is being discussed at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#BetacommandBot_is_malfunctioning_again. John254 06:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AN/I Notice

Hello, Betacommand. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion can be found under the topic Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents #BetacommandBot is malfunctioning again. Tiptoety talk 06:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Substitution

Please do not create messy wikitext like in [12]. In such a case the ParserFunctions should be substituted too. See m:Help:Substitution#Multilevel_substitution.--Patrick (talk) 08:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Blacker Gachet image Help!

I would be grateful if you would tell me what exactly is insufficient regarding the rationale I have left for the use of this image. This is what I included on the image page:

[edit] Fair use rationale

  1. The image is a low resolution copy of the original work, and of such low quality that it will not affect potential sales of the art work.
  2. Inclusion of the image is for information, education and analysis only.
  3. The text discussing the significance of this art work, or referencing it as a key example of the artists work, is enhanced by inclusion of the image.
  4. There is no alternative, public domain or free-copyrighted replacement image available.

With many thanks for your help. --Adammckenzie101 (talk) 19:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

you forgot to state for article that rationale is for. βcommand 19:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Ignoring bug reports?

I see that you plan not to respond to my bug reports. Very well, then, that gives me cause to ask that BetacommandBot be banned permanently: author refuses to fix bugs, and reverts bug reports without acknowledging their existance. I want to point out again that I agree with you that there is nothing wrong in what BetacommandBot is doing -- but everything wrong in how it does it. Fix your code or don't run it. RussNelson (talk) 00:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Im not ignoring your reports, they are not bugs. I was asked to do it that way. Also check my talkpage as that is where the conversation was moved to. βcommand 00:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
My apologies. I looked on the archives link at #3, and my bug reports were neither on this talk page, nor were they in the archives. I suggest you edit #3 to also point to your talk page. RussNelson (talk) 03:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] AN/I Notice

Hello, Betacommand. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion can be found under the topic Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents #BetacommandBot is malfunctioning again. Tiptoety talk 06:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Over-eager archiving

It is less than 24 hours since the last posting to both of the next two items.

Why were they archived? Pdfpdf (talk) 12:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Correct image on the right page for the right reason, but rationale has shortcomings ...

I'm not sure how much of this is a "bot" issue, and how much is an "image" issue, so I'm posting this question in both places.
If I understand the policies, guidelines, etc. correctly, the appearance of the company's logo on the WP page about the company, the album cover on the WP page about the album, and the school's logo on the WP page about the school are all "correct" usages.
However, I frequently see BetacommandBot "Fair use rationale" messages complaining about the inadequacy of the rationale.
Two questions:

  1. Given that these are "correct" usages, why does it matter if the rationale is imperfect?
  2. Given that these are "correct" usages, why is a generic rationale not acceptable?

Awaiting your reply, Pdfpdf (talk) 09:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The logo template ({{Non-free logo}} specifically states [emphasis in original] [emphasis added]:
“ This tag is meaningless without an accompanying fair use rationale which must be unique to the usage of THIS image in each article in which it is used. You must also give the source and copyright information for all fair-use images uploaded. ”
The album cover template ({{Non-free album cover}}) specifically states [emphasis in original] [emphasis in original] [emphasis added]:
“ To the uploader: please add a detailed fair use rationale for each use, as described on Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline, as well as the source of the work and copyright information. ”
WP:NFCC explains the basic reasoning and lays out the very restrictive circumstances in which fair-use images should be employed. WP:FURG#Necessary components lays out the minimal requirements for a valid fair use rationale. Vassyana (talk) 10:20, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've read all that stuff before, and I believe I understand it. However, you haven't addressed my questions, viz:

  1. Given that these are "correct" usages, why does it matter if the rationale is imperfect?
  2. Given that these are "correct" usages, why is a generic rationale not acceptable?

Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

A detailed unique rationale for each use is required by the policy, for the reasons stated in the policy (and because a Foundation-level policy requires it). Bear in mind the usage is not "correct" if not accompanied by an appropriate rationale. Vassyana (talk) 11:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Enough of the fallacy that the bot enforces correct anything. All you need to do to not be tagged by the bot is state each article name in an otherwise gibberish piece of text. Seriously, we are not talking about a sophisticated piece of A.I. here, it is one persons attempt at coding a super tagging machine, it enforces nothing. MickMacNee (talk) 11:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, a detailed rationale is required, I'm not questioning that. I am asking:

  1. (Given that these are "correct" usages), why does it matter if the rationale is imperfect?
  2. (Given that these are "correct" usages), why is a generic rationale (with gaps for required specific information) not acceptable? Pdfpdf (talk) 11:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
As far as I understand your questions, the answers are provided above. Could you perhaps rephrase the questions or better explain what you are asking? Vassyana (talk) 11:35, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, but gotta go right now. Will respond later Pdfpdf (talk) 11:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, that took longer than I expected. Sorry for the delay

As I said, I also posted this question on Wikipedia:Image copyright help desk. Their response answered my question. I am reproducing it here for the future benefit of those searching the archives.

Also, in an interesting coincidence, the very next question originally appearing after mine happens to be on exactly the same topic! I'm reproducing that here too.

So, merging MickMacNee, Masem, Adammckenzie101 and βcommand, it seems MickMacNee has the most concise summary of the situation:

"All you need to do to not be tagged by the bot is state each article name".

Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Answer from Wikipedia:Image copyright help desk

The use of images as you describe are acceptable uses, but a correct rationale - in the sense that a machine can understand what the rationale is applying to - still must be provided per the Foundation requirements, it's just very unlikely that the non-machine readible sections of the rationale will be challenged. --MASEM 16:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that, in general, it doesn't matter if the rationale is imperfect; the bot messages are complaining about the machine-readable bits of the rationale that are not conforming to its requirements/expectations. Is that correct? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 17:25, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Exactly, the bot can understand some parts of the rationale and make sure it's compliant, but other parts (the validity of the claims of fair use, no free counterpart, etc.) will have to be judged by a human. --MASEM 18:19, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Many thanks! Your answers have been very helpful. Pdfpdf (talk) 05:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Blacker Gachet image Help!

I would be grateful if you would tell me what exactly is insufficient regarding the rationale I have left for the use of this image. This is what I included on the image page:

Fair use rationale
  1. The image is a low resolution copy of the original work, and of such low quality that it will not affect potential sales of the art work.
  2. Inclusion of the image is for information, education and analysis only.
  3. The text discussing the significance of this art work, or referencing it as a key example of the artists work, is enhanced by inclusion of the image.
  4. There is no alternative, public domain or free-copyrighted replacement image available.

With many thanks for your help. --Adammckenzie101 (talk) 19:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

you forgot to state which article that the rationale is for. βcommand 19:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you to all involved. Pdfpdf (talk) 12:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bug: BetacommandBot makes multiple identical reports

BetacommandBot makes multiple entries on an image uploader's talk page, e.g. [[13]]. These entries should be consolidated into one. I can think of two different ways to do that: by searching the talk page for a BetacommandBot entry, and adding the newly-found image into that entry, or by looking at the last entry on the page, and if it's a BetacommandBot enttry, adding the newly-found image into that entry. RussNelson (talk) 16:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Both this and the prior recommendation aren't bugs. They're feature requests. --Hammersoft (talk) 19:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
    • If a human persistently edited talk pages that way, they would be banned. A bot that edits talk pages that way is a buggy bot. I'm not disputing that BetacommandBot's mission will annoy people. I'm asserting that when it does so unnecessarily, that's a bug that needs fixing. RussNelson (talk) 21:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
      • It's still a feature request, and not a bug. A bug implies a malfunciton. As you note, "there is nothing wrong in what BetacommandBot is doing". It's not a bug, and most emphatically not a reason for banning. --Hammersoft (talk) 01:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
        • The error in BCB is not in what it does, but in how it does it. If a person made the same edits BCB makes, they would get banned. A bot that makes edits like that is buggy and needs repair. RussNelson (talk) 03:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
          • You your self admitted it's working fine. It's not like it's tagging images already with an acceptable rationale as missing some component. What you're asking for is a feature, an advancement of the code. Should this bot be banned every time someone makes a feature request and such request is not done? Of course not. You're welcome to make a complaint to WP:AN/I that this bot operator refuses to implement your suggested feature request, but the chances are very small the bot will be blocked. --Hammersoft (talk) 03:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Schedule for March 2008

Hi Betacommand. I noticed over on WP:AN that you said "Given that we have about 500 non-free uploads per day, I'm guessing that my future should be around 1000 images about twice a week." Do you think you could expand that a bit more and explain things a bit more clearly (with some numbers) and put it on the record at, say, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#March 2008 schedule for BetacommandBot? For example, have you finished running through the lists of older images? It would be a nasty surprise if you discovered an old list you had forgotten and tagged several thousand old images without warning. I know you don't normally run to a definite schedule, but would you please, please consider it just for this month, as this month may be particularly hectic. And could you also say how you think things will change after the deadline? See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Deadline does exist (spirit of resolution). I know I can be rather insistent at times, but I really think that just a little bit more effort from everyone involved here, and a brief notification each time you intend to do a run, will make a big difference and make things easier. Thanks. Carcharoth (talk) 13:40, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I was also reading Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive91#BetacommandBot and Fair use, and I was wondering if we could get a full update on the phases and how complete they are and the numbers involved? A new section and post somewhere, please? Not posted in the middle of an existing long thread... (I missed your post at ANI about Phase 4). Carcharoth (talk) 19:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Inappropriate template substitution, [14] [15] [16]

Please do not use your bot to substitute templates appearing on template documentation pages, as instances of templates used in documentation of templates need to be transcluded, so that the text in the documentation will be updated when the templates are edited. Thank you. John254 15:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What I would have done differently

Hi Betacommand. I offloaded some of my thoughts here. A bit of a random location, but probably better than here. Unless you want me to copy them over here? Just leaving this note to let you know. Getting a response is a bit difficult sometimes. Would it be better if I e-mailed you? Carcharoth (talk) 19:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Commons stuff

Getting a bit bored with the non-free stuff. Was looking at User:Betacommand/Commons. I think I left a note for you before at User talk:Betacommand/20071201#Commons duplicates. Would you have time to point me towards any work needing to be done here or in the "Commons OK" stuff. I have an account at Commons if that helps, but I haven't really got the hang of categorising images there yet. Carcharoth (talk) 21:36, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

see the commons link on Wikipedia:Image renaming βcommand 21:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Does that do the full move process, or just the renaming bit? I'm afraid those pages aren't telling me much. Maybe the pages are in state of flux as the functions switch over. I'll come back later when the process is fully working. Carcharoth (talk) 22:21, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Assume good faith"?

I left a polite message saying "Could you please explain why you have reverted this posting? It doesn't look like vandalism to me, but if you think it is, could you please explain why you think this? Thanks"

Your response was:

  • revert my message, saying it was vandalism;
  • give no answer to my polite question; and
  • put an extremely aggressive message on my talk page.

Your behaviour is unreasonable, and is most certainly not "assuming good faith". Pdfpdf (talk) 21:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stats

Did you see this from ST47? I make that an increase over 2007 of 155,000 images. That does include free images as well, but even so, are people really uploading that many free images? Geni indicated from a random selection of 100 images that these include many copyvios. What do you think? I remember a comment you made somewhere that there had been an overall decrease of about 100K in non-free images, which doesn't really seem to add up. Which set of stats are wrong here? Carcharoth (talk) 22:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image upload and deletion stats (2007)

If you have time, would you be able to comment on Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria compliance#Weekly uploads and deletions and bot taggings? Discussion should be taking place at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content criteria compliance. Thanks. Carcharoth (talk) 01:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BCB missing notification of page uploader/image use page?

You may want to check out the diffs given in this diff by a user that cite examples where the bot tagged the image (correctly for #10c FUR) but did not notify correctly. All of them seem to be recent (Feb 13 and later) so I don't know if it's a code change or the like, but would be a serious problem if there is large amounts of non-notification occurring. Hope this helps. --MASEM 02:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I was asked not to send Blofeld any more notices. (long story), there was a image that was pointed out Image:1932Bears.jpg that I know a database lock caused a small problem. βcommand 02:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
PS that page is full of lies and bullshit and is a complete farce and it will not affect how I operate BCBot. βcommand 02:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
as for the other images uploaded by English peasant, that was caused by a user re-name while the bot was running. βcommand 02:18, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-notification

Hi I recently raised the issue of non-notification but got fobbed off with "you recently changed your username, that's why". I have been putting fair use rationales on images you tagged and came across this edit. Could you explain why there is no notification about the impending deletion of this image on the talk page of the article in question (Talk:History of the Chicago Bears). If people are not informed the image almost certainly gets binned. English peasant 22:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Im looking at BCBot's logs, and it shows that the bot did post to the talkpage. Im not sure what the issue is. βcommand 00:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I found the issue, it was a database lock that caused the error. βcommand 01:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Greetings on the same issue - It appears that there were multiple instances of this problem (that were brought to my attention) (Image:ItuzaingoLogo.gif, Image:GimnasiaCU.gif, Image:Laflorida.gif, Image:GrupoUniversitario.gif, Image:Ahitienetumadre.jpg) all on 2/13. With probably 9,800+ images tagged this day, would it be possible to notify the uploaders that were not notified that their images have been nominated so that they can do something about them? Thanks much. SkierRMH (talk) 03:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

SkierRMH, those images in question were all uploaded by the same user, the issue is the fact that the user had a rename. (I just checked all those links and 3 of them still said they were uploaded by the old username.) that issue I cannot help it was caused by a rename. db locks are very very rare and very very few images would be affected, there is just not any good method of re-checking them. βcommand 03:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
see above. βcommand 03:48, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Has my question already been answered?

I'm very sorry that I'm not a robot and have to do things "manually", but I'm not about to spend hours looking through 21 archive files to see if someone might have previously asked the question I would like to ask. Have you given any thought to providing a method by which users may quickly and easily determine if their question has previously been answered? Awaiting your reply, Pdfpdf (talk) 09:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

  • A number of common responses are in the big grey box at the top. Might be of some help. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Not really. It is point #3 in this big grey box that is saying:

Read this talk page and its archives before registering your complaint. It is likely someone has already registered a similar complaint, and that complaint will have been given an answer.

I sincerely doubt that 21 archive files have been condensed into 17 numbered paragraphs.

So thanks for your reply, but my question remains unanswered. Viz:

Has anyone given any thought to providing a method by which users may quickly and easily determine if their question has previously been answered? Awaiting your reply, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Feel free to put together a FAQ. I think you'll find that that box does answer most questions, or link to the answers. – Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 20:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I think you'll find that that box does answer most questions
Interesting. If this is indeed the case, why does the box say point #3?
When I read point #3, I get the impression that it is telling me that the box doesn't answer most questions, and that I need to go look in the 21 archive pages. Or am I mis-understanding something? Pdfpdf (talk) 22:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Re: My image

It is used, at the page "Maiq the liar/About"... Maiq the liar (talk) 17:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

It's copyrighted, and you can't use those images anywhere but in encyclopedia articles - so it isn't counting the use on your about page as a use. See WP:NFCC for our rules about this. --uǝʌǝsʎʇɹnoɟʇs(st47) 17:57, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BetaCommandBot and NFCC10c - New discussion page

I have created the folowing page Wikipedia:Bots/BetaCommandBot and NFCC 10 c to attempt to centralise discussion on BCB and specifically its NFCC10c tagging operation.
MickMacNee (talk) 18:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Opting out

Is there a method of opting out from receiving messages from your bot and letting whatever default action is necessary happen? If not, there should be. My talk page is literally spammed with messages from this bot, and it's bordering on harassment in my opinion. —Locke Cole • t • c 19:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think BCB honours {{nobots}}; I would consider that a bug rather than a feature if it did. Uploaders need to be informed of the problem. That said, perhaps some amalgamation of notifications is in order. Nevertheless, please provide rationales as required by policy. The notifications are for your benefit, and the benefit of the project, since unless they're addressed the images are very likely to be deleted. – Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 20:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
No, I refuse to be held to a moving target. When I uploaded the images I uploaded they met all policies in effect at the time they were uploaded. I refuse to participate in this non-stop "let's make uploaders do this" garbage that appears to have infested the anti-fair-use brigade.
So far as I see it, I have two options: find a way to stop this bot from informing me, hence my question here, or find all fair-use images I've ever uploaded and nominate them all for deletion at IFD (and risk violating WP:POINT, but I'm sick of seeing new messages over trivial BS this bot or it's author could fix itself). I will try {{nobots}} though.. —Locke Cole • t • c 22:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Well you could self-speedy them, since your the uploader. Looking at your history, its about 50-100 images.
I agree this bot is harasing, I want it off my talk page now.--Cloveious (talk) 05:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Next phase

As I was drowned out by ZOMG style comments to your original post, I'm reposting my thoughts on the next phase of BCB here:

So BC, if I understand thise new phase, BCB will go through articles that use an image, but that the image has no FUR for. What sort of FUR will it look for? A valid backlink? the article title? a FUR template? etc. I'd say I'd support BCB generating lists of images that are used in articles where there is no mention of the article title on the image page. My fear is that if BCB edits the articles to remove the images, people might not notice and know to write a separate FUR. How many images are we talking about (FUs in more than 1 article)? My rough guess is 5%-10%, but I'd like a firmer number (xx,xxx) for example to figure out the impact of this phase? BTW, how many images are left in the current phase? MBisanz talk 04:35, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm guessing there are some left in the current phase. I ran accross Image:NBTBank.jpg, which I've fixed, but it wasn't tagged by BCB and is a 2006 image. Seeing my mistake. MBisanz talk 08:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Really unhelpful

This activity is really unhelpful. I would strongly encourage you to stop the bot from doing edit sequences like this. If it wasn't for the fact that it is doing a highly important job I would be inclined to block it and you. Stifle (talk) 11:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Ooh. That's not good Beta. I'm really hoping you've stopped by now. I've supported you in the past, as has Stifle, but he is absolutely correct. That is not on. Carcharoth (talk) 11:38, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Robotic Touch

It's highly impersonal, impolite and abrasive to harass people about image tagging via a bot. I would really like if you desist and leave the job to humans who personally leave messages for people rather than spamming them.

As someone who has been here for four years or so and an admin for about 3, I would suggest the likes of your bot do not enhance the environment at Wikipedia, but merely contribute to the growing social problems here.

Regards, zoney ♣ talk 15:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Zoney, Ive been lot more active than you, What the bot does do is handle a task that humans cannot. it enforces policy. My bot is far from causing the problems that are appearing on en.wiki βcommand 16:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I find your selective archival of relatively recent talk page sections interesting. Also strange is the suggestion that your level of activity dictates what behaviour is acceptable on your part. In any case, I can assure you that I have been very highly active at various stages in the past, and indeed review quite a lot of what passes for editing an encyclopaedia these days. I do not think that it is helpful for you to use such an iron hand in the enforcement of policy. If you are concerned about copyright violation, you can rest assured that Wikipedia is well up the creek without a paddle, nor would it have a leg to stand on in court, no matter how many images are removed or correctly tagged. While indeed a necessary and laudable task, it is not a task for which immediate attention makes much of a difference, considering the scale of copyright problems on Wikipedia. Also your bot is simply creating a workload with a lot of false positives and harassing others to tackle the issue, whereas what is more reasonable is for those concerned about image tagging to simply review each case themselves. Certainly that's not going to stop Wikipedia from having violations, but hey, the model is broken in the first place from a perspective of stopping that. zoney ♣ talk 11:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Phase 4 - have you started?

Betacommand, have you started phase 4? Where was the discussion approving this? Carcharoth (talk) 11:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ANI thread (MickMacNee talk page)

This needs to go on the record. I've started an ANI thread here. Carcharoth (talk) 12:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your bot is tagging images WITH FURs

Hi BC, your bot keeps repeatedly tagging Image:Taal.jpg although it has an FU template and a seperate FUR. I am not entirely sur why it likes this page, but it is starting irritate me. Could you please have a look? Regards, rueben_lys (talk · contribs) 10:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

you fixed the issue [17] βcommand 18:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Image:WOTW-NYT-headline.jpg tagged as orphan. It was not.

Betacommandbot has labelled the image Image:WOTW-NYT-headline.jpg as an orphan. It is not orphaned, it is the first thing mentioned in The War of the Worlds (radio)#Public_reaction.

You can see it on the File Links section of the page.

At the time that Betacommand listed the image, the page did not show up under the File Links because it lacked "|upright". (Why this should make a difference is beyond me, but it does)

Anyways, it's not orphaned and hasn't been since 2006-10-10, so I'm taking the orphaned tag off. superlusertc 2008 February 18, 13:53 (UTC)

No big deal, that is why the bot lets you know its orphaned. βcommand 14:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Award notice

Not endorsing your WP:POINT-scoring, but you deserve this for putting up with everyone. Stifle (talk) 14:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] ANI discussion notice

All discussion on you and your bot has been centralised to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Betacommand. .:Alex:. 15:25, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Warning

Per the above and per Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Betacommand#Edits_by_Betacommand_to_MickMacNee_talkpage, the consensus seems to be to say any further blatant violations of WP:POINT will be met with blocks, as there's been enough chances and asking you to behave hasn't worked. I understand you have to deal with a great deal of provocation, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. So, consider this the warning discussed there: Any further pointy disruption or vandalism and both you and the bot will be blocked for 24 hours. I would image following that, it would then be 48, and so on. Neıl ☎ 15:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Wrongly Taged

Your bot has tagged three of my images as orphaned however all three are still in the thread they were intended to be used in. They are Image:Puzzle Pirates Swordfighting.PNG, Image:Puzzle Pirates Gunnery.png, and Image:Puzzle Pirates Blacksmithing.png. I will proceed with removing the tags. -- ZookPS3 (talk) 16:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

when the images were tagged they were not in any articles. βcommand 16:07, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Building a better BCB FAQ

To help offset a lot of the complaints that you get on this page particularly over the next month, I'm offering that we include this BCB FAQ that I wrote to be transcluded on WP:ICHD (and possibly in your warning messages and this talk page?). I need to see from you if there's anything technically wrong with it (given that I have no exact idea of the code, but know enough what you've done already to state certain things) and any other input you may have. --MASEM 17:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] VandalProof

You rejected my application, and you don't answer my request to why. Again, why did you reject my application? Lex T/C Guest Book 19:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Cookie

Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy munching!

Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:Cookie}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

After looking at your talk page you really do need it. Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) 19:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Then please don't be incivil. Nandesuka (talk) 00:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I have a right to say it how I want to say it. you have zero ground changing my comments. βcommand 00:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bot messages...

Per #8 here, get with me tomorrow and I'll work on tweaking the bot messages to be a little softer. I'd be happy to do this. Lara❤Love 04:33, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandelism

Hi, I am Rbpolsen (talk) 01:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC). My userpage has been vandelised 5 times by 70.128.185.15 from Texas. Can you please do something? Thanks. Rbpolsen (talk) 01:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] A further note about civility

Betacommand;
Your recent edits to this userpage are outside the bounds of civility. In what circumstances do you imagine that editors will respond in a positive manner to being told not to "whine and complain?" Pages in user space still do belong to the community and they exist "to facilitate communication." There is clearly some value in an informative header, and it is widely agreed that repetative discussions are harmful. However, the tone (and image!) of your header does not assist in building the encyclopedia.
152.91.9.144 (talk) 22:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

also you are not supposed to change others comments, I stated that way for a reason. if you dont like my headers get over it. you have zero grounds to edit my comments. βcommand 22:48, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if there was something cut off before the "also," but as it stands your reply has several factual errors:
  1. It's not a signed comment, it's a header box.
  2. I (and every other editor) is actually supposed to, and is encouraged to fix anything they perceive as a problem.
  3. To respond to my (I thought) polite response with "get over it" is highly uncivil.
  4. And, to reiterate point #1, I have every grounds to edit the header at the top of your page. It's rude.
I again make the argument that it does not actually facilitate commmunication. In fact it impairs communication. I won't re-edit the header right now, but I'd ask nicely that you make the change yourself. I may also ask a random editor to review this thread, as my discretion.
152.91.9.144 (talk) 23:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I won't deny that he's being slightly uncivil, but it does happen to be his Talk page so he can have it say what he wants, basically. Enigma msg! 23:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
That's simply not true. I linked it above, but here it is again: Pages in user space still do belong to the community. If pressed, I'll provide a long list of discussions at the Administrator's notice board, the incidint notice board, and multiple findings by the Arbitration Committee to support this. Betacommand does not own this page, he's simply given "wide latitude" in its contents.
152.91.9.144 (talk) 23:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Got to agree with Betacommand on this. He's entitled to put whatever header he wants on his own talk page. If you think it's incivil, tell him, and he might or might not change it. Stifle (talk) 11:25, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Even if you accept that he only has "wide latitude" in his talk page's contents, surely that includes warning people about whining and complaining. In my mind, this is far from incivil--it might not be the cheeriest thing to do, but there's no WP rule saying everyone should be cheery. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Doesn't hurt to ask

At Wikipedia:Bots/BetaCommandBot and NFCC 10 c#Probably not the right place for this but..., I've said that your bot's closed source is a roadblock to me writing an improved version, and MBisanz has suggested that you might give it to me if I ask. So, I'm asking.

Would you give me your bot's code, along with permission to modify it, distribute it, and release it under a free license, so that I can make what I consider an improved version and run it by the bot approvals group? rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 07:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I do have a problem with what you want to do. when I let other see the code it under one specific condition, do not distribute it. βcommand 13:09, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Okay, but can I ask why? It's not like you're going to sell this code for a profit. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 19:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Metamorfoz.JPG

Sorry, but this image ([18]) is not orphaned, since it is being used by the article Metamorfoz.
Beegeesfan (talk) 15:06, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Image:Metamorfoz.jpg is being used in the article. Image:Metamorfoz.JPG is not used anywhere. --Onorem♠Dil 15:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
thanks I was just about to say that. :) βcommand 15:12, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] your sig

Loads of people do, please can I keep it, the image is off Wikipedia too its not off another wbsite. Its off of the Wiki. Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 17:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, few if any people do.. and they shouldn't. The smiley font is ok, but the image is an unnecessary, wasteful use of system resources. Every time someone loads a page with your sig on it, it has to make an extra call to the servers to retrieve the image.. --Versageek 17:24, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Lucy Lawless

What is? Because you withdrew the image Lawless.jpg of Article Lucy Lawless, just give me a reason logically.

Like I have stated on your userpage see WP:NFCC βcommand 04:19, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Other Form

Put an image in the commons with the same name, so withdraw the image here of wikipedia, can illustrate the article of the Lucy Lawless with a picture of commoms, putting current image in another part of the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lawless fan (talk • contribs) 04:27, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Overwrought comment

Betacommand, please see this edit, where I removed an overwrought comment of yours and added a long and hopefully informative reply for Torc. I'm letting you know in the hope that you won't revert or restore your comment. Carcharoth (talk) 12:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Premature archive

For your information, you have now archived the same open conversation twice. If the archive is an automatic process, it looks like there's some sort of bug in the process. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:19, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Where have the open discussions gone?

Where have the open discussions gone? (They don't appear to have been placed in the archives.) Pdfpdf (talk) 09:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh. For some reason, they've been move here: User talk:Betacommand. (I wonder why?) Pdfpdf (talk) 09:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

More than likely, it's easier to keep discussion in one place. SQLQuery me! 17:46, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Error

Hi, your bot is tagging numerous talk pages, which are not about religion, with {{WPReligion}}. Some examples: Matthias Küntzel, Simon Wiesenthal Center, Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service. I know I've told you this before, but please be more careful when operating your bot. I'm not willing to revert all of your errors this time.--Carabinieri (talk) 18:45, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

it was tagged because it was in Category:Antisemitism per WP:BOTREQ#Bot tagging request βcommand 18:49, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Antisemitism is usually not related to religion, therefore that tagging was wrong.--Carabinieri (talk) 18:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I am astonished. You were told by 2 editors that your bot was tagging pages it shouldn't, yet you continued to run it at 18:52 UTC. Don't you get that not all articles in the categories you're tagging deserve to be tagged?--Carabinieri (talk) 19:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Please contact John Carter concerning the recent taggings. βcommand 19:09, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it's your responsibility as a bot operator to make sure you don't harm Wikipedia. I hope you will be reverting the inappropriate edits. Like I said, I'm not doing it again.--Carabinieri (talk) 19:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Need to follow up on what you are tagging

Today you made this edit [19]. This areticle has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. In fact it is about the long running British sci-fi show. How many other articles will wind up with this tag is unknown but if a human does not followup on these many articles will have been tagged needlessly. MarnetteD | Talk 18:47, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

then your article shouldnt be in Category:Reincarnation βcommand 18:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
It isn't my article it is wikipedia's article. Your bot is needlessly tagging many articles based solely on the categories they are in. The category may be correct that does not automatically put it within the scope of a given project and your currect program does not allow for this fact. MarnetteD | Talk 18:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Please contact John Carter concerning the recent taggings. βcommand 19:09, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I have already done so but that does not stop your bot from continuing to make mistakes. You could have thought this through a little better before setting up the program. MarnetteD | Talk 19:17, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Another odd tag

I'm not sure Lillibullero ought to be in the religion WP either. Coemgenus 19:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Please contact John Carter concerning the recent taggings. βcommand 19:09, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Why would I do that? I just contacted you. It's your bot, isn't it? Coemgenus 19:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
that is the user who requested the tagging. βcommand 19:15, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] This bot is annoying

This bot is always digging up images I uploaded over a year ago and saying that they are illegally here, even though I chose the correct template upon uploading the image, so I did nothing wrong, and it requires me to add another template. Pretty annoying. Just wanted to say that. Who knows how many images it's taken down that nobody had a problem with and that were uploaded in the proper way?? So to the owner of this bot: never complain about the lack of images on wikipedia, cause it's probably partially your fault. NIRVANA2764 (talk) 22:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Um, okay, you might consider saying that a little more slowly, for starters; it seems like you've got very flustered. For seconders, is the robot requesting a fair use rationale? If your images were copyrighted, then they need to have a detailed fair use rationale provided for each use they are given in Wikipedia, to consistently comply with the United States copyright law. Never having been to the United States, myself, I cannot say anything more about the law; simply that it must be followed on an American-based encyclopedia. For an example of a fair use rationale, see the rationale in Image:Robear-and-Robert.jpg (it can't be linked, otherwise the image will show up here). You can apply the non-free template to all your fair use images, and give your reasons for why they qualify under the fair use expectations. Hope that helps! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 22:46, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Images can be linked like this: Image:Robear-and-Robert.jpg. English peasant 23:52, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 00:22, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Automatic addition of Wikipedia-Project templates

Hallo, if it is technicaly possible, perhaps you could add the project religion-templates inside the WikiProjectBannerShell, and with nested set to "yes" like this. This kind of arrangement of nested boxes makes the talk pages more readable. Greetings, --Schwalker (talk) 23:02, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

the bot should be nesting the templates, Ill look into why that was not nested. βcommand
It did nest the banner in several other cases. Maybe it has to do with how high on the page the shell is? John Carter (talk) 23:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Here is another banner it failed to put inside the Banner Shell: [20]. 99of9 (talk) 01:28, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I think I fixed that issue, (Im surprised it did not come up before). it was an issue with the formating of the template. βcommand 04:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Good Job

You are a freakin machine, dude! it seems that every album article i contribute to, youve been there! Congrats, you insane pyscho robot!♠♦Д narchistPig♥♣ (talk) 01:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Instructions on the bot talk page

Hi Betacommand, Just a passing lurker who noticed your bot is a bit unpopular at the moment (!)

Do keep up the good work, someone has to do it - and soon. But, (IMHO) the instructions on the bot talk page, especially the big "you are blocked" stop sign, are very hostile and probably contributing to the drama. Shoot me if I'm wrong of course... but I changed the picture and made the text a bit more friendly.

I'm not involved in any image or other disputes, so this is just a neutral edit. Moyabrit (talk) 01:25, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I reverted that, I placed that there and phrased it that way for a reason. Please dont edit my comments. βcommand 01:29, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  • You have to understand, Moya. BC doesn't seem to care if he's rude, unhelpful, or overbearing in his comments. He does this "for a reason", so it's all fine. You'll soon enough learn to just leave him (and especially his bot) alone. I know I have. Bellwether BC 01:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Bellwether, I am glad to help people who have questions, I post that template at the top for a reason, it answers a lot of questions, and its phrased that way so people will read it. βcommand 01:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I may have missed it, but I've never seen you be helpful to a person who was confused by your bot's aggression, or by the bite-y "instructions" at the top of the page. It's always dismissive. Bellwether BC 01:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
βcommand 02:05, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

While this will almost certainly trigger a check-user on the hapless (in a nice way!) Moyabrit, I note that this is the second time that this has happened in short order, and that there are now at least three editors who have either asked you to change it or othrwise indicated that they believed it was rude. Without malice, I suggest that you consider that your opinion of the appropiateness of your communication method is not the only opinion that matters. Can you, in all honesty, tell us that you think that the manner you've chosen to communicate is more effective that the two recent alternatives? [21] [22] I also tried to resist pointing out that something cannot be "phrased [in a] way so people will read it." They have to read it to see how it's phrased.
152.91.9.144 (talk) 04:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I suppose it's better than being hapless in a nasty way ;-) but okay, my changes were not appreciated and I won't repeat them. I do think, however, that the talk page as it stands is gratuitously rude. Someone who gets an image rationale wrong is not a vandal, and treating them as such is bound to create a hostile atmosphere. Moyabrit (talk) 13:14, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your spamming

Concerns about your editing have been raised (yet again) at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Mass-spamming_by_User:John_Carter_and_User:Betacommandbot. Johnbod (talk) 19:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Do you have a count for the number of articles edited in the Wikiproject religion run? Johnbod (talk) 18:05, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
    • Give me about five hours, (Im away from my main PC) and I can get you those numbers fairly easy. βcommand 18:09, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Johnbod (talk) 18:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Not a problem, If this computer had javascript enabled on it I could do it for you right now in about 30 seconds. βcommand 18:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
3096 tags. give or take 20. βcommand 22:58, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks very much. Johnbod (talk) 23:11, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Hello,

I did upload an image to Wikipedia, how can I get it to be displayed on the article for which it was intended?

Cexycy (talk) 20:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

What you do is: You copy the title at the top of the file page for your image, then go to the article where you want it to appear. Next, you click to edit the article, and when you scroll down to reach the part of the article where you want it to be, you paste the title in there. After that, insert two of these: [ to the left of the title, and two of these ], to the right of it. If you want it to be smaller than its full resolution, then after the image, put the following |(some number)px. For instance, it's a 300 by 400 pixels image. To get it significantly smaller, you might put in |200px after the title of the image. To give it a frame, and then a caption, add the following: |thumb|(Place the caption here). If you want it to the left of the page, or the center, insert |left or |center. For having the image to the right, this is not necessary, as the image will naturally appear to the right of the screen if you do not give directions on where you want it placed. This probably sounds a little confusing, but reading and following it as a step-by-step guide might help clarify it. I hope so. Happy editing!!! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 08:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:BN

And thats why I voted for its deletion and proposed a formal structure at Wikipedia:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard#Bot_change (WT:BRFA is still too free-wheeling to me and associated too much with the BAG review function as opposed to an entire community discussion function). The lack of a formal layout lent itself to the rather slanted wording of issues at the onset, which quickly drove the issue from a broad range of ideas to a rather narrow, range. I would've rather seen many users put forward separate "proposals" that could be discussed in an RfC style, but that's impossible now in that form. Hopefully March 23 will get here quickly. MBisanz talk 00:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for comment on main page deletion incident

As you made an edit to the incident listed in the Administrators notice board, it is requested that you confirm the details of the incident here (section 1.1.2)

This is as the incident is used as the basis of an argument and needs to be confirm by persons familar with the event

Regards --User:Mitrebox talk 2008-02-22 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.11.244.78 (talk) 07:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Talk page notice

Can it be programmed to delete the talk page notice it leaves behind when an image is deleted? It's a pretty useless notice to have once the deal is done.--165.21.154.94 (talk) 00:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BABS again

Hi Betacommand: Me again, still trying to help work out the glitches in the Bird Articles by Size routine. We're still seeing fewer than 7000 articles—and a fair of these are things outside the remit of our project, like Foie Gras and 2007 Bernard Matthews H5N1 outbreak. Is there a way you can search the article's talk page for the presence of the BirdTalk template, and include all of the articles that have one? That should include all the articles we're looking for. Thanks again for your attempts! MeegsC | Talk 21:14, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I can do it one of two methods, category based or template based. βcommand 19:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] VandalProof

When you have a couple minutes would you mind heading over to vandalproof approval. I see that you tend to be the only approver over there. I looked at the other admin that work on it and it seems non have been around that much recently. Thank you in advance GtstrickyTalk or C 15:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Link changes in stub templates — problem

Hi, Betacommand. Earlier on I was viewing a sports-related stub article. I clicked on the "...help Wikipedia by expanding it" link in the stub footer, and got an odd "Wiki does not exist" error message. Investigating, I discovered the problem was this edit, which replaced a portable linking format with one which relies on the server being set up to use "/w/index.php" as the wiki address. This doesn't work from the secure server because it's set up differently. So I restored it to use a nice simple, portable linking format, {{fullurl}}.

There was no problem, until I noticed you had made the same change to a several other stub templates. I was about to fix them, no problem, but then I noticed that you've actually decided to change the links on about three and a half thousand other templates as well.

I don't want to seem like I'm complaining, but the problem you see, is that as a result, each and every last one of these is now broken, on all the articles where they are used, when using the secure server. E.g., see Template:Sport-stub, before I fixed it.

It's beyond me to fix them. Since you have the skills and know-how, and a robot, would you perhaps be amenable to changing them all back? The optimum format to use is {{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}|action=edit}} (least I think so). Not wanting to be a nuisance, but they cannot stay as they are – they don't work properly and the "/w/index.php?title=" format is messy. • Anakin (talk) 06:54, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ANI

Hi Betacommand: Just making sure you're aware that there's another thread on you over at ANI. I have no opinion on the content thereof, just notifying you. - Philippe | Talk 23:40, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uncivil edit summaries and comments

Hello... Your responses and comments here from a couple of days ago, and here and here were uncivil, failed to assume good faith (explicitly), and were personal attacks.

You have in the past been warned not to be so abrasive and hostile in responding and defending your bot actions, and you've agreed that you tend to go too far at times. This has been one of those time, again.

This needs to stop. You are needlessly aggrivating the bad feelings raised by the bot activities by your hostile counterattacks on critics. Even if the bot actions are 100% correct, you are under an obligation to maintain civil and polite responses to critics.

Please calm down and tone it down. If you're angry at a particular point, don't respond to critics until that passes.

If you keep abusing people, in violation of policy and these warnings, then someone's going to eventually take you up to Arbcom or block you for the abuses. That doesn't serve the project well or do you any good.

Please take the step back and avoid further abuse. Thank you. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:04, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

what about the abuse that is directed at me? Ive sat around and observed that when users communicate with me they ignore NPA, CIVIL, AGF, and countless other policies and dont get as much as a warning for it. but when I take the slightest mis-step I get the book thrown at me. unless you are willing to enforce the policy both ways I dont want to hear it. Ive been on the recieving end of countless personal attacks, un-civil comments and other attacks for over eight months, I think I have handled myself fairly well. βcommand 00:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
That's what we expect of administrators in particular, bot operators in particular, and editors in general, yes.
No, you have not handled yourself well. You've previously admitted that you didn't think you were handling yourself well at all, in fact. If you were handling yourself well, I would not be here on your talk page pointing out edits of yours which are rather blatantly in violation of policy. There's no "But he made me do it!" exception to AGF, CIVIL, or NPA. They're policy. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
then why are so many people able to breach those policies when talking to me without getting so much as a warning? βcommand 00:21, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't follow you around trying to spot every time someone posts something abusive about you. If you have specific example diffs you would like reviewed, post them here or on the ANI thread (I am about to step away from the computer, but will take a look at any specifics you can point to). Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:24, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
User:Bleveret/Userbox/BCBruin‎ is a quick one, I can get more if you want them. βcommand 00:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
That's .. not entirely polite, maybe, but isn't an obvious evident violation of AGF, NPA, or CIVIL. You could make a case to MFD it but I don't see it as the sort of thing an administrator needs to act on immediately. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:35, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
That one was nominated for MFD here. Enigma msg! 02:34, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
let me start listing some more.
βcommand 02:31, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Having admiteddly looked only as far as "I hate your bot, it's so annoying" I'm failing to see incivility or personal attack there... Can you be more specific?
152.91.9.144 (talk) 03:22, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A user uploading oodles of pics with false license claims

This user has been uploading pics at an alarming rate claiming self-made on most of them. They clearly aren't his. TO make things worse he has been ading these same sorts of images over at Commons. All stolen. 156.34.216.55 (talk) 19:31, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removing the link

I agree, but that's not the point. I am going to remove the protection if you agree to stop edit-warring on that article. I have left the same message for MickMacNee. The alternative is blocking you both. Black Kite 21:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

May I ask that it is removed until there is consensus on the talk page for it to be re-added? I dont like getting into disputes but his trolling needs to stop. βcommand 22:03, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Your accusations need to stop. MickMacNee (talk) 22:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Back off, MickMacNee. Lara❤Love 06:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Lara, both sides need to calm down. Jumping in on one side will not help. Carcharoth (talk) 15:21, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Images with permission confirmed

You are still wrongly tagging images as not having a valid fair-use rationale, despite being in Category:Images with permission confirmed. Please fix your bot so it stops spamming my talk page. — OwenBlacker (Talk) 11:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Like I said before, if those permissions are released they should not be tagged as non-free. its not the bots fault, but rather an issue with how its tagged. βcommand 12:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criteria for releasing source code.

Hi. Could you kindly outline your conditons for releasing the source code to BetacommandBot? Assume for the sake of discussion that said release is to someone you trust. Thanks in advance. Nandesuka (talk) 18:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

"I have said that I would release my code to trusted persons under the conditions that they dont release the code, that they dont modify it, and dont use it if Im available. I dont trust OTRS for that kind of thing so I do it on a personal level. βcommand 14:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)" As found here. Lara❤Love 18:39, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stub templates again

Betacommand, have you had a chance to look at this yet? They still all need changing back. I really don't understand why you made those changes. If you are too busy I can put it up on the Village pump or something to see if someone else can fix it. • Anakin (talk) 19:18, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

that was done for a reason, to allow users to filter out the junk links created by the templates that flood the linksearch. βcommand 19:20, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh I see. Okay that makes sense now. The /w/index.php part still messes up the links on the secure server though, possibly other mirrors. If the "stub" variable is necessary in the URL it should be done as {{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}|stub&action=edit}}. Would that work, and still let people filter out the junk links? • Anakin (talk) 19:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rename image?

Hi BetaCommand;

Would it be possible for you to rename Image:History1.jpg? The name is highly ambiguous. It should be called Vernon_Court.jpg or anything similar to that. Thanks! Charles 19:27, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Betacommand's had nothing to do with this image. Is there some reason you can't rename it? --Hammersoft (talk) 19:53, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
BetaCommand was listed as having image rename permission. I don't think images can be simple renamed, at least I haven't seen any rename or move tab along the top or side. Charles 19:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tired of being flagged

Resolved.

The bot is consistantly fallging my images, which are correctly labled.

Image:Lovethecup1.JPG
Image:Therepulsionbox.JPG
Image:This_Gift_albulm_cover.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr dozzy (talk • contribs) 21:03, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
None of those images were tagged by betabot. One was tagged manually but that was fixed. Are you sure you have the right images? Woody (talk) 21:13, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
One was tagged by BCBot, but they've all been corrected at this point. So it's moot. Lara❤Love 22:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Images Help

Hi there, some of my images have been tagged, i added them a while back and i dont think they are under the right rationale so i think they should both be speedy deleted to make sure, can always find new pictures, can you let me know what to do to get rid of them?? Thanks.

(Neostinker (talk) 21:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC))

Quick glance says their images of living people used to illustrate them. Fairuse images can't be of living people since they can be replaced by a free image. So drop {{db-badfairuse}} on the image page and someone will be along to delete it. MBisanz talk 21:12, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Which set?

Are the set of images tagged last night part of the older compliance set or the continuing compliance set? MBisanz talk 21:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I just checked the first 100,000 images in alphabetical order. thats about 1/3 of all images. (we have about 291,000 non-free images). in a little over four hours im planning to check some more. I dont sort them by upload date. βcommand 21:20, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
So after that next run, all non-free images uploaded before today will have been scanned at least once? MBisanz talk 22:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
this is the third(?) time I have run through all the images since the start of 2008. during the large runs BCBot may miss some. but the next runs should be smaller. somewhere around a thousand images. this last run got 700(?) which is a lot less than the prior runs for this year. βcommand 23:31, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
This is making things a lot clearer. Thanks, Betacommand. Any progress on those stats, yet, or can I try and do something with the data in those subpages in your bot's userspace? I mean these pages. I know the data only goes back to September, but I still think some graphs might be useful. Carcharoth (talk) 00:56, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, it is a good thing that I won't get another 3900 logo dump! I can easily handle the 100 or so logos that will drop out of the 700 tags. MBisanz talk 01:58, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Legacy images without rationales

Hi Betacommand. I've asked this question on the Administrator's Noticeboard, but I'll repeat myself here to make sure you see it on that long page :-) Do you do you have a number for the amount of images that still don't have a rationale? Do you plan to tag another large amount of images? Thanks, Bláthnaid 13:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

like I have said I dont know exact numbers, but a majority should have been tagged. βcommand 18:21, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. It's good to know that most of the old images have been dealt with. Will there be any more relatively small rounds of tagging of old images, like today's 700 tagged images? Bláthnaid 19:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind, I see that you have answered essentially the same question below. Bláthnaid 13:16, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I have to know(ok, I don't have to)

I would like to know what the 34days left means, can you tell me?(just say no if you don't want to)--Pewwer42  Talk  06:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Until en:wp has to be in compliance with the WMF policies regarding Fair Use and the proper tagging/justification of every image and text used under it, I believe. ++Lar: t/c 10:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Signpost updated for February 18th and 25th, 2008.

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[edit] Image:Colonel_Green.jpg‎

As I have pointed out elsewhere there being no just cause for claims of misuse of the photograph placed on the page under "The Fair use Rationale", as I had previously proved enough information to justify it's use based on the policy statements at Wikipedia:Assume good faith and Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. We're all here for the same purpose, and that's to build an encyclopedia, not to treat one another injustly, each one individual is trying to do his or her best to abide by the rules, The Photograph in question used and placed here in 2005 meets all 10 points of the WP:NFCC#10c. {{Non-free film screenshot}} [[Category:Star Trek: The Original Series images]] The rational for this image is that it conveys the best image of the the story's main protagonist "bad guy" of this journey, this image is what wikipedia refers to as a "fair-use screengrab" and came from noted and respected internet sources.

Here is the specific link to this 1969 third to last episode of the original series entitled, "The Savage Curtain" an original series Star Trek from Paramount Studio's...with the screengrab from an article in question borrowed from here:

"The Wikipedea Hall Of Shame!", A well received parody and information site, known for it's commentary, criticism, comedy, parody, news reporting, videos, and or educational use, and not for profit, heres the exact link within; http://thewikipediahallofshame.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_archive.html and theres also a website article published on the character in a fictional story about him dramatised on the film about it The Savage Curtain.http://trekweb.com/stbbs/showThread.php?bid=FldwoPP0qETo2&tid=47bf783d8c794&threadView=1

Furthermore there is no infringement to use the works of another in such special educational circumstances, such as for commentary, criticism, comedy , parody, news reporting, and or educational use, and not for profit section, as in this case it is presented under several the Educational and commentary/criticism parody and not for profit section, of the International Copyright Act under the Short Film, Performing Arts, Student, Visual Media, and Humanities section, of The International Fair Use Doctrine Laws., and U.S. Laws, fair use is especially important to protect uses a copyright holder may not even approve of, such as criticism or parodies. See Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, 510 US 569 (1994)

"The Savage Curtain(Star Trek)|The Savage Curtain]]" ©1969 Paramount Pictures, produced by Fred Freiberger. Cathytreks 06:57, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

The image is transcluded onto two pages, and I do not see individual rationales for both uses (I can't easily find one of them, let alone the other). I think the bot has the same problem, so you might want to repair that. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:07, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
I had a second look, this revision was tagged, and it is not clear on which pages this image can be used as fair use. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:10, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

It is clear that the image can be used for fair use under the Fair Use Doctrine Laws., and U.S. Laws, fair use is especially important to protect uses a copyright holder may not even approve of, such as criticism or parodies. See Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, 510 US 569 (1994) on this page in particular: Colonel Phillip Green in the classic Star Trek episode "The Savage Curtain. Cathytreks 07:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

That is not the point, it has to be stated where it can be used, see WP:NFCC #9 "Non-free content is allowed only in articles (not disambiguation pages), and only in article namespace, subject to exemptions. (To prevent an image category from displaying thumbnails, add to it; images are linked, not inlined, from talk pages when they are a topic of discussion.)", and #10c "The name of each article (a link to the articles is recommended as well) in which fair use is claimed for the item, and a separate fair-use rationale for each use of the item, as explained at Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline. The rationale is presented in clear, plain language, and is relevant to each use.". The image in question fails both. Hope this explains. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Note: I have removed this discussion from the image page, please discuss only on talkpages. The image page was difficult to read with the discussion there. Thanks. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:47, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Itchy.jpg

I have completed the fair use rationale and, unless there are further concerns, await the removal of the disputed tag. Arch O. La Grigory Deepdelver 18:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image fair use rationales

Hey there. I felt compelled to leave you a message regarding your bot. Firstly, please don't get me wrong - I fully understand (and agree with) the need for 'non-free' images to include an appropriate rationale. However, I am concerned about the 'value' potentially being lost by the project by tackling the problem in this way. Take, as an example, the image which it notified me about: Image:University of Portsmouth.jpg. It's a low resolution logo of a university. We'd never be able to get a 'free' image to do the job. So... the image needs to include a fair use rationale, I'm not arguing with that. What I am wanting to point out is that I feel users (including, but certainly not limited to, yourself) who want to help the project out with the massive backlog of such images might do better to put the time and effort into adding some fair use rationales yourself, rather than tagging such images for deletion. In terms of value to the project, we risk the original uploaders not being available to, or not being bothered, to add the rationale and images being lost. The cumulative effect of this, in my opinion, is detrimental to the project. Just my viewpoint. └ UkPaolo/talk┐ 22:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

UkPaolo, I kind of agree with you. For an user who does not know the subject of the article it takes about 20-30 minutes per rationale. (that is to write a nice solid rationale that is almost bullet proof). while someone involved in the article/uploader can do the same thing in about five minutes. I do help users who are having problems with writing them, but its just not possible for one person or a small group of users to write 10,000's of rationales. βcommand 23:28, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] commons ok images

Thanks for running the second batch so quickly... normally the other user(s) swoop along rather quickly to delete the image per NowCommons tag. Any idea how long it might take? Timeshift (talk) 06:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A couple of concerns

Hi. I very much appreciate the work that your bot is doing, but I have a couple of concerns about details. I previously raised them here, but I guess you haven't had a chance to respond to my comments there. In brief, my points are as follows:

  • The notice at the top of this page is uncivil, in particular the use of language like "whine and complain". Please change it.
  • Given that there's an FAQ available specifically to cover the behaviour of your bot and the recommended response, please link to it prominently at the top of this page, and in the message that the bot leaves.

Thanks, Bovlb (talk) 21:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I for one am not offended by the notice at the top of the page, and I don't see how anyone can be in any case.--WaltCip (talk) 14:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Pre-labelling anticipated good faith behaviour as "whining" is uncivil. Bovlb (talk) 18:45, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Im not pre-labeling anything. What that does is stop wikilawyering and and attempts to weasel their way out. Ive seen it before, and placed that there to stop it. if it doesnt apply to you, dont take offense. βcommand 18:52, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image renaming

Ahoy there. I'm an admin on the YPPedia, the wiki for the Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates community. While looking over Wikipedia:Image renaming it seemed to me that you would be a good person to ask a few questions of. Our wiki sees a great deal of user-generated artwork and game imagery uploaded every day. While a lot of it does follow guidelines for naming the stuff that doesn't is often left in the background in deference to other administrative tasks. I'm really impressed so far by what I've read of the image renaming bot. I like how it checks that the requests have been approved, and I like how it preserves the history of the re-uploaded file. Would you be able to help us set something similar up, or at least give me advice on how to do it? Thanks in advance, --Fiddling Frog (talk) 07:06, 29 February 2008 (UTC)