Talk:Besermyan

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[edit] Some comments

• The name of this people does not sounds as Bisermän – the real form is Besermyan (бесермянин, in Russian), or Beserman (бесерман in Udmurt&Besermyan). So, this article should be moved! The word «Bisermän» in the article also should be corrected.
• The sentence «They speak a Tatar-ified dialect of the Udmurt language» is without any doubt wrong. The language of Besermyans has approximately so much Tatar loanwords as other Udmurt dialects.
• The sentence «Their ancestors are thought to have been the tribes of Volga Bulgaria who spoke Finno-Ugric languages, were subsequently partly Tatar-ified and converted to Islam. After the conquest of Kazan in 1552 they were converted to Christianity by Ivan Grozny» seems to be entirely unsubstantiated: nobody knows surely about this situation.

So, if the community has nothing against it, I'll correct this article within a week. --Denis Sacharnych 20:12, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Besermans or Bassermans

In origin Mordva tribe who escaped from Grand Duchy of Purgas after the fall of Obranjosh in 1221. They fled over the Raw (Valgia), later for the Russians known as "Mother Volga", and settled to east of Raw and Vitka (Viatka) Rivers in the lands of Maris and Ud-murts (Ud - people). Lived there about 160 -200 years (eight to ten generations). Their Ud-murt name is Busurmans. Most of the Besermans moved in the time of Khanate of Kazan for more eastern direction to the lands of Tatars and Bashkirs. Received strong Turkic - Tatar infuence by mixed marriage with the latters. Many chosed Muhammedian fate. Their number was estimated to be in 1912 about 10.000.

They should not been confused to East (Upo) Maris who lived also in Ufa area. Their number was in 1912 was about 100.000, nearly 30 per cent of all Mari tribes. It was the Upo Maris, which the Russians tried to convert to the Orthodox fate with poor results. Most of the were in 1912 still "pagans" serving their ancient Lord called Jumo.

All this is clearly registered in Finnish linguistic studies made by several Finns who researched the origin of Finno Ugrian peoples. This work was continued by Estonians during 1947 - 1989 in former Soviet Union.

JN