Talk:Berserker

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Contents

[edit] Family stories

My father is Norwegian and told me stories passed down from his father and his father before him. He used to call them barezaks. That is not the correct spelling, that is just how the word sounded to me. He used to say that they used to go into battle and would often attack allies in their fury. The article seems to imply that this didn't occur often and therefore negates one possible cause. I just wanted to point that out. I'm sure stories get warped through the ages but I have as much reason to believe the stories passed through my family as I have to believe stories passed through others.

[edit] Rewrite

Some of the writing in this article is very poor. For example: From an evolutionary-genetic viewpoint, in many cold Nordic lands it helps to be a bit hyperactive to deal with the cold. [citation needed] Under highly dispersed living conditions, where people have to store food to make it through the winters, it also helps to be able to explode with fury to fend off people who might come to steal one's food. Hence, one of the simplest explanations for the beserk phenomenon is (a) there is a valid tactical requirement in battle for "shock" warriors to use their fury to create breaches in enemy lines and (b) within a Nordic population there is a certain hyperactive percentage of the population who can cultivate turning on their natural proclivity towards rage and fury (as in what the Romans called "furor Germanicus") at strategic moments for military use.

It is written as a explaination to a question, and it seems to be directly addressing the reader. Also the writing quality is just very poor. If I have time I will rewrite it, but it would be nice if someone else would seeing as I am quite busy.

Foolishben 08:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] King Erik?!

"In 1015 King Erik of Norway outlawed berserkers."
Who is this? According to the list of Norwegian monarchs, Olaf II was King of Norway in 1015. Eric I and Eric II reigned 931-933 and 1280-1299 respectively. --DopefishJustin (・∀・) 19:34, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Godly alliegance of bearserkers

Although I can not pin point the source of this, I have a distinct feeling this is the case...

The bearserks are warriors somehow linked to the goddess Freya, while the ones in wolf skin are linked to Odin. This makes sens for a number of reasons:

  • Half of the fallen warriors go to Freya, half to Odin.
  • Both deities have mystic/shamanic powers.
  • Odin is closely linked to wolfs.

In order to buy this argument one also has to see Freya as a wild (as the nature is wild), passionate, mystic and magical person, rather than the "ornamental" Aphrodite/Barbie kind of person.

One also has to accept that the frenzies of berserkagang was a sort of shamanic trance (sejd), which is not that easy to do since there are accounts of involuntary bearserkagang. One way around this is to attribute the berserkagang to something else, but accept the shamanic trance as a "marketing scheme".

Please comment (I didn't want to add it to the article since I don't have a source).

Comment by RuediiX:
I would like to add consistancy to the use of trance state or meditation for berzerkaganging, as you put it. somtimes called berzerkering for simplicity. Similar techniques are used in some variants of martial arts. It seems to be general knowlege, but I don't have a source. I'm sure some Martial Arts expert should have one for that.
Also on the appreciation of nature by strike warrior classes is nothing unique as they have a tendancy to have to spend long times in the Wilderness hidden, and considering what has been verified about Norse culture the worship of a female god by warriors is not surprising either. Not to sound biased by my gender being male, but I would consider that to be motivating.
So, these statements are not unfounded, and I provided some cross refrence data that might help. Timestamp: 2005.03.03.03:37 EST


Comment by Maximilius:
The "trance states" do indeed exist in martial arts, however I believe the "Berzerk" trance state is probably unique to Berzerkers.
Oriental martial arts usualy have some sort of mental training that allows practitioners to be more perceptive, ignore pain, heighten reflex, and increase concetration in general. A really good example of this is Kendo (Japanese fencing) which work towards producing state of "Zen" (adopted from budhist practice). A state which one's awareness is so high that one no longer thinks, but perform moves and reacts instantly out of pure instinct (simplified description, this is much more complicated in practice).
Therefore, using mental conditioning to improve fighting ability exists in many warrior culture. However, berzerkaganging is likely an extreme form that is exclusive to Berzerkers. Like mentioned in the article, berzerkaganging can get out of control, harming allies as well as enemies. This is very shunned upon in every culture. In oriental marial arts, where control and dicipline is emphasized, there is simply no room for berzerking.
Extra note: I do, however, know of a Chinese martial practice that is similar to berzerking. Students are often taught to concentrate all one's willpower to defeat his enemy in a duel (or sparring), this results in very agressive attack patterns and greatly heightened threshold of pain. However, students are also taught to control this state to distinquish between friend and foe (and to not harm sparring partner). --Maximilius - March 17, 2005

[edit] the plural number

This page is in the plural number.

Danish: en berserk, to berserker
English: one berserk, two berserks

According to my dictionary, "berserk" and "berserker" are both valid nouns in English. (I am also quite convinced that the form "en bersærker, to bersærkere" exists in modern Danish, but my dictionary does not agree.)

Nouns in Old Norse often ended in -r, and I heard that the -r was mistaken to be an agent suffix(?), like English -er. Not 100% sure about the explanation, though... --81.232.72.148 23:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Lack of information on Norse Culture

There is a significant lack of information on Norse culture in general, before the Monarchy took over.

The consequence of this means that we know little about the warrior class variants that weren't theives, raiders and other unethical outlaws that would get themselves noticed.

It is noted that some bezerkers may have even been defenders of the weak, and would often use various tactics of using a falsely appearing weak member to face and use a block defense against the oponents that were raiding the village, while they waited in ambush. These techniques are remarkably similar to modern SWAT and other Special Ops tactics.

Similar tactics have also been used for quite some time in Far East martial arts. It is known how these tactics are done. Meditations are used to enchance the body's abilities through the nervous system. Such martial artests have been recorded as having the ability to use biofeedback to learn how to directly control even they're heartbeat rate quite easily.

Technically the tactics were not what was outlawed, but instead the rituals assosiated with them. The tactics are still used today in many SWAT, Special Ops, Strike Ops, and Rouge Ops tactics.


-- Note from orriginal author (Delete along with sig when request for editing as outlined below is complete.)
If someone could get refrences on this stuff and post it to the main page, it would be nice. (BTW, since I haven't gotten my spell checker plugin reinstall in my browser, someone spell check this for me as well.) Could someone translate this to some Germanic and Norse languages. I presume some of these statements need to be put on the master page for the Anctient Norse culture, and just be linked from the various pages.
Timestamp and sig:
03:05AM EST 2005.03.03
Ruediix
ThunderFox The Vulpinian Punk
Spell check it yourself. Why should we do your work for you? Normally I do spellcheck comments just because, when the person at least makes a real effort to write a coherent, grammatical, correctly spelled sentence- which is not the case here. --maru (talk) Contribs 07:28, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Comment by Maximilius:
I'd like to add some additional comment about using mental conditioning to control physical ability. Using meditation to increase physical ability and using mental state to alter/improve fighting pattern are two different effects. Chinese martial art and medicine ultilized Qi Gong system, which include meditation and breath control. Long term practice can boost stamina and power significantly, and alter metabolism and heartbeat. This is what I believe the above poster is talking about. I have practice Qi Gong for 4 years, and martial arts for 6 years, however my mental state during fighting has not changed from before I practice Qi Gong (for example, I am not more agressive nor more percetive). Berzerkaganing involves altering mind state of a fighter, and the fighter becomes extra agressive (gaining strengh and stamina is a side-effect of this state, like how one can write more neatly when concentrating). Therefore, the two are fundamentally different.
Note: I have another comment about using mind state to improve fighting ability, which is posted on another article above this one. --Maximilius - March 18, 2005


Comment by ManikMike:
It may also be worth noting that at the heart of budo is a state of mind known as 'mushin no shin', or 'mind no ::mind' in which, as stated above, the conscious level of the mind switches off and the body simply reacts. As ::anybody who has trained regularly over several years in a technique-based system will know, after a while the ::movements become as natural as breathing. What the berserkers hadn't that the buddhist/budo arts have, however, is ::the Zen detachment from things. To the best of my knowledge.
So we end up talking about a section of warriors who have attained great skill in fighting, and an ability to reach ::a level of consciousness where they simply act, but without a balance or control, as can be seen by the anecdotal ::evidence of spontaneous berserker behaviour off the battlefield. This isn't particularly surprising, though, if one ::takes the line that they had made themselves more able to reach great heights of fury very rapidly. A familiar path ::is an easy path.

[edit] Entirely different explanation as compared with current german Wikipedia

April 2005: The german wikipedia entry for "Berserker" shares the bear-shirt explanation about the word itself, but explains that berserkers were merely aged germanic warriors (beyond 35 years, which was regarded as very old at that time), who feared to die peacefully in bed, i.e. berserkers were old veterans fighting in the first line in order to seek an honorable death in combat. It is discussed that they drugged themselves in order to prevent themselves to retreat because of pain before being mortally wounded. However, facing a veteran who does not fear death itself is certainly fearsome, contributing to the term berserker as commonly understood today.

I do not know whether this explanation is better or worse, but I just thought to mention the differences.

April, 2005

The German definition probably fit a great many beserkers such as Starkad, but no, there is nothing in the sources about the age. --Wiglaf 12:49, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm, if I understand the German page correctly, it also mentions that the word could be interpreted as bers-erkr which would mean something like "bear's anger". I haven't heard that theory before, but if it's a serious theory, I guess it could be added to the page.
What would point against the theory is that the second element of the alleged theory is that the second element (erkr/ergi) usually meant something like effeminate or pansy in Old Norse, which was quite a hard insult in the Norse macho culture. The explanation on the German Wikipedia giving "Ärger" is a cognate to "Ergi". --85.226.122.237 16:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spirit possession

The sentence Those who believe in the existence of spirit possession favor a theory that the berserk rage was brought on by possession by an animal spirit of either a bear or a wolf. According to this theory, berserkers were those who had cultivated an ability to allow the spirit of a bear or wolf to take over their body during a fight. This is seen as a somewhat peculiar application of animal totemism. does not belong here as it is a completely unscientific theory.

Comment by ManikMike:
I disagree. Whether or not there was any spiritual possession (if one believes in such things or not is, of course, a different matter), the beliefs of the berserkers may well have had a great influence on their actions in battle and reactions to pain. In this light, the statement that the berserkers were those who had 'cultivated an ability to be possessed' has its place here if only as a theory that the berserkers derived their strengths and behaviours from self-induced manias and delusions.

Regardless of whether or not you consider it to be scientific, it is still a popular theory regarding berserkr rage and should be duely noted as such. SynthesiseD 23:01, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What does this mean?

"King Harald Fair-Hair's use of berserker "shock troops" became a sphere of influence."

This is not at all clear (not to me). Could the original author clarify? --Michael K. Smith 21:01, 13 September 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Please educate me

Since i was a child i had a serious rage issues brought on by a stressfull enviroment. I would become chilled and then my blood pressure would increase when i was younger i would lash out and it wasnt till later when i joined the military that i realized how to control my anger. I was simply searching the net on anything of interest when i stumbled onto this site. Everything makes perfect sence. I beleve that the berserker's rage or berserkage is totaly psychological which if you look into organic chemistry you will find that simply chemical mixtures create the functions in our brains there is even an area in modern psychology that is devoted directly to chemical interaction. Perhaps the combination of the chemicals injested and the rituals performed by the nordic berserkers pushed them into the "trance" you speak of. Also if you look at the reactions of people at a rock concert it almost takes control of the people and sends them into a rage. I cant seem to find any information on berserkers and the rituals they performed to back my theory if you could send me info i would appreciate it. Also the previous comment on the SWAT and SF units using berserker like traits is very true. However the rangers use extream exhustion to enduce rage. That is one of the ways i learned to manage my anger issues. my email is Jared_Peterson1986@hotmail.com.


I beleive that there is another modern explaination (I do not have a source) that involves super-adrenalin states that people may enter. There are numerous verifiable stories about average persons confronted by emergency situations and exhibiting super-human strength (such as a mother lifting a car to rescue her child). It is believed that this is the result of excesive adrenalin in the body, and virtually all the blood being sent to muscles, leaving little left for the brain (causing the crazy and irrational behaviour). Vastly increased blood pressure and muscle tension would make these wariors less susceptible to damage. It is likely that the beserkers were a class of wariors that had learned techniques of entering these states at will (whether through the use of drugs or psychological effects). This may also be a recessive gene or heriditary trait.

Contemporary sources also describe the beserkers also smell extremely. Others were capable of smelling them from many feet away. This appears to indicate that the beserker's metabolism had been induced to an extremely high state.

The physical aftermath symptoms of excessive fatigue and inability to think clearly are familiar to anyone who has entered a super-adrenalin state. This is due partially to overloading of the nerves, in fact there is sometimes a buring sensation in the head as well as muscles which could be explained by nerve degredation. I apoligize for not having any sources for this theory.

[edit] Is "berzerk" a valid spelling?

I notice that "berzerker" redirects to "berserker". But does the spelling "berzerker" really exist in proper English (or any other language)? Is it not just a (recent) corruption created because "Z is cool" (as is the case with "lazer")?

If my assumption is correct, then the article needs to clarify this. --SpectrumDT 18:07, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Probably, the z doesn't have anything to do with the Old Norse spelling. Don't know if it's necessary to clarify that, maybe that could be written on the entry for the Death Metal band, or something. --81.232.72.148 00:04, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
I don't think we should change it. It's a prevalent enough spelling that it should point here. It's not currently considered correct, I don't believe, but I have seen it in older scholarly works, so someone might have seen the term and wanted to know about it. --Zabieru 12:20, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
The Old Norse was Berserkr, personally i'd have that as the main heading. The common anglicised spelling is Berserker, so let's leave it at that shall we? SynthesiseD 18:08, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pop Culture Section

This seems really long. I'm going to condense it. For instance, the use of "Berserker" as a character class in console RPGs doesn't need individual references for every game.

In addition, I'm going to edit several of the listings which identify characters as berserkers to indicate that those characters exhibit berserk rage, but are not necessarily operating within the Norse cultural tradition of the berserker. --Zabieru 12:20, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay, my changes were more extensive than I'd planned, so here's a listing.
  • Condensed video game references into two bullet points instead of eight, trimming several explanations of game features from those listings. It's my opinion that the in-game behavior of a class, ability, or unit is not relevant to its status as a pop culture reference. If you disagree, could you rework the descriptions that were here, rather than just putting them back in? Several of them were very clumsy.
  • Removed references to use of the word "berserk" in its normal usage. I don't think that when an anime or a game describes a character or unit as "berserk" in order to indicate that it is out of control and enraged, that constitutes a meaningful reference. If the usage seemed to be referring to the cultural context of the Norse berserker, I left it.
  • Removed two references to characters (Marvel's Wolverine and Guts, from the anime Berserk) stating that they were berserkers, when this doesn't seem to be the case. I left the references to Wolverines' rages and to the anime itself, but to the best of my knowledge neither character ever wore a bear skin or engaged in any form of Norse spiritual practice, nor were they known for entering battle unarmored, and so on.
  • Trimmed out a note about the rarity and sought-after status of Black Label Society berserker badges. The badge is a reference, but discussion of the significance to the fan community should go on the band's page, not here.
  • Re-wrote the reference to Beorn from The Hobbit to remove weasel words. --Zabieru 13:02, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] rabies?

Is rabies really a possible explanation for berserkers? My understanding of rabies was that one, well, died fairly shortly- within the month; and from Egils' Saga alone it appears that most berserkers did not die within a month of their first berserkergang... --maru (talk) Contribs 07:28, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Berserkergang as stated by some sites i checked out in the past seems to be more of a hate-trance, a self-invoked state of combined euphoria and anger. As such, the body would secret adrenaline and endorphines enhanching the person's fighting abilities but leaving it drained of energy when it's over. Some present-day Berserkers spoke about laying in bed for days after entering berserkergang due to lack of physical energy. Death might intervene during recovery, i think! So i don't think rabies should be considered here! Ulfednar 06:50, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Berserkir and Ulfhednar were said to be as rabid dogs, but I think that the description that was more about the way they acted rather than about them actually having rabies. SynthesiseD 18:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quote from the Metro newspaper

This seems a bit out of place in the article and unencyclopaedaic - the theories repeated by the singer are hardly conclusive, are they? Gerry Lynch 10:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possibly related

Just recently Berserk was changed to redirect to Berserker rather than a manga comic of the same name. As a result of which there is a discussion current at Talk:Berserk_(manga)#Move_to_Berserk which some might want to have a look at. GraemeLeggett 13:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quote?

Still, some scholars consider the frenzied and indomitable berserker and his bear-skin coat to stand right alongside horned Viking helmets as a "feature of later literary [works] rather than contemporary historical ones", placing the legitimacy of Norse sagas as historical records into question. (emphasis added to relevent fragment)

Is this a quote? If so, who said it? 72.200.139.248 17:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Modern world Encyclopedia 1935

the Modern World Encyclopedia from way back in 1935, has this entry on Berserker

Berserker, name of 12 sons of Berserk ("bear skin"), a hero of Norse mythology; later became a generic term for all recklessly courageous fighters

I'm not adding anything from a 1935 encyclopedia to any of wikipedia's substantial articles for obvious reasons. but this page has no reference to this mythological origin of the term. Do as you wish... --ZayZayEM 06:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

"This page has no reference to this mythological origin of the term"? Maybe because this etymology is wrong :) Sigo 01:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
What makes you say that. I have a source for it. Do you have one against it?--ZayZayEM 13:42, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't, but all my sources are recent and reliable (John Lindow's Norse Mythology, Andy Orchard's Dictionary of Norse Myth and Legend, Rudolf Simek's Dictionary of Northern Mythology and many others) and a character named Berserk is nowhere to be found. Sigo 16:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed from artice

The following text is not encyclopedic, is unsourced, and jovial:

Aside from what was seen on the outside, going berserk required a significant motive most of the time. A fanatic sense of duty, justice, and honor were possible motives for inflicting this insanity upon one's self. Family, religion, and particularly love in general can spark irrational behavior, and under some circumstances, radically violent behavior. Every member of humanity is capable of being cursed with this degenerative state of being. All who come across descriptions that are related to going berserk, should not take the term lightly. It is a very extreme state of being which is unnecessarily hard on the persons involved. The resulting consequences are very possible: Heart attacks, strokes, burst veins and arteries, sometimes even squirting blood(yes..squirting) through your tear ducts, breaking of teeth, tendons, ripping muscles, having blood be excreted from your pores, going blind!, ...basically anything the human body is capapble of doing to itself(without psychological limitations)...by simply holding your breath, and increasing the preasure made by the organs and muscles. Advice: If you have any intelligence in you at all! Do not cultivate this state of being. For the sakes of those who are important to you, and if not them, then yourself.

-- Ec5618 09:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

From an evolutionary-genetic viewpoint, in many cold Nordic lands it helps to be a bit hyperactive to deal with the cold. [citation needed] Under highly dispersed living conditions, where people have to store food to make it through the winters, it also helps to be able to explode with fury to fend off people who might come to steal one's food. Hence, one of the simplest explanations for the beserk phenomenon is (a) there is a valid tactical requirement in battle for "shock" warriors to use their fury to create breaches in enemy lines and (b) within a Nordic population there is a certain hyperactive percentage of the population who can cultivate turning on their natural proclivity towards rage and fury (as in what the Romans called "furor Germanicus") at strategic moments for military use.

That demand a source.Håbet 05:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Besides, it would be usefull for everyone to be able to "explode with fury to fend off people" or wolves or lions or bears or whatever. Krastain 23:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Concerning "Bare of shirt"

Where did this idea come from? I have never heard of this before reading this article in wikipedia. It sounds unbeliveably stupid to me. Did someone just make it up?

"bar" and "særk" in Danish mean "bare (without cover)" and "shift" (shirt; tunic). In many legends the Berserkers fight by great wildness without shield and coat of mail (only in the padding tunic).

The shield and coat of mail was heavy as the warrior been tired, and do not be able to parry the stroke of the two hands axe.

The axe and padding tunic was cheap, but most effective against a tired enemy.Håbet 18:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Coats of mail were too expensive for allmost everyone. Krastain 23:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
The dictionary support, me. But the correct translation is perhaps only in padding tunic or what you call a knee long shirt by filling of horsehair. The bodyguards of kings was Berserker because they have need to guard the king all the day. Håbet 06:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Which dictionary supports you? My dictionary "Webster's New World (4th Edition, 1999)" says "ON berserkr, warrior clothed in bearskin < bera, BEAR + serkr, coat". I suspect "bare of shirt" is a folk etymology. Benwing 03:04, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Nudansk Ordbog, say: - [from Old Norse berserkr; 1. part perhaps adjektiv berr bar; 2. part serkr, see særk].
Bearskin is folk etymology from the Middle Ages, because bears was strong and wild as a berserkr. The legends have mix werewolf and berserkr to a super hero who been changed to a invulnerable monster who be able to use a raw cut steer-oar as weapon.
Berserkr have two overlap meanings, 1. The kings guard. 2. a super hero. Håbet 09:15, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
My professor says we just don't know if berserk means 'bare of shirt' or 'bearshirt', but he mentioned both, wich proves that at least the theory isn't made up by some wikinoob, but debated in scientific circles. Krastain 23:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
The OED offers both etymologies. I'm not impressed by the way the article currently says of the bear-skin etymology "this is wrong" without further explanation, and am going to change it now with a reference to the OED page. 213.122.52.169 (talk) 16:29, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A note on anachronism.

As a suggestion for enlarging the article, it would be interesting to read more of what beserks meant in Scandinavian culture (ie relationship to paganism, Chrisitanity, the gods and spirits, etc). I am always bemused by so-called explanations offered by modern authorities to explain away such phemomena (eg physiological conditions, artificial stimulants, etc), which explain away the power of belief, or rationalise any supernatural elements. Anachronistic, I say. Don't drop them from the article, they just bemuse me. --Iacobus 02:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


I haven´t done any real research but seeing as I´m Icelandic I consider myself to have an advantage.


I want to address the literal meaning of the word berserk. In Icelandic the word ber can mean berry as in Blueberry or it can mean naked, here it clearly means naked since the Icelandic word serkur/zerkur (the letter Z is no longer used in Icelandic because S and Z have the same sound in Icelandic) means torso. Berserk therefor means naked-torso as in thous that went berserk in essence went "topless" (no shirt´s and no armor). Some berserker´s might have worn skin hats/capes but that dose not have anything to do with the meaning of the word berserkur Icelandic for berserker.

[edit] Nude?

What of the references to nude berserkers? The article only mentions armored ones. As many support or mention that as do those who argue for either alcohol or mushrooms for the fury.

[edit] Etymology

I presume that the etymology is Old Norse, but it would be useful to be explicit about the language and the approximate date that the root forms were in use. 66.66.191.79 11:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Berserk vs Ulfsark

Hey and where is the Ulfsark? the tradition mention about ulfsark wearing wolf coats and Berserk wearing bear coats, i think is necessary separate both is not the same .--189.164.126.139 (talk) 16:21, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Some form of PTSD?

The article lists potential medical conditions, but nowhere mentions PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) (although this could be considered, and probably should be, more psychological than medical, the article also gives possible psychological theories.)

Re-enactment of traumatic experiences is a common feature, and combat a common cause, so it seems like this should deserve at least a mention.

(FWIW I think Tom Cruise's character in "The Last Samurai" was supposed to be an example of this, at least before he stopped drinking alcohol.)Critic9328 (talk) 18:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Posted by Mog Rhod

What is a bit scary to me is that formerly posted in the main theory section, was someone talking about bipolar disorder. The issue with modern culture being afraid to label Berserkers as having an underlying bipolar condition, is that modern medicine discounts the more integral ways in which shamanistic cultures dealt with people like this. For example the Mudang shamans, and Nearim-gut of Korea. In fact the very reason for the survival genetically of bipolars (manic depressives) is that they were MORE capable than others, and fearless in battle (owing to their manic state).

One aspect of mania, is indeed a propensity to be fearless and WALK AROUND NAKED.

BRITNEY SPEARS, hello!

Mania (from Greek μανία[1] and that from μαίνομαι - mainomai, "to rage, to be furious") is a severe medical condition characterized by extremely elevated mood, energy, unusual thought patterns and sometimes psychosis. There are several possible causes for mania, but it is most often associated with bipolar disorder, where episodes of mania may cyclically alternate with episodes of clinical depression. These cycles may relate to diurnal rhythms and environmental stressors. Mania varies in intensity, from mild mania (known as hypomania) to full-blown mania with psychotic features (hallucinations and delusions).

Manic patients may need to be hospitalized to protect themselves and others. Mania and hypomania have also been associated with creativity and artistic talent

One only needs to read MANIC DEPRESSION AND ABSOLUTE POWER: A BROTHERHOOD OF TYRANTS: by Hershman & Lieb, to see that other military leaders throughout history had manic depression, including Napoleon, Stalin, Churchill and Hitler. Manic Depression and Absolute Power: A Brotherhood of Tyrants (Hershman & Lieb)

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NAPOLEON: THE CORRIDORS OF OPPORTUNITY: 1793-1796

Solemnity and depression vanished in December 1793, when Napoleon had a chance at the battle of Toulon to demonstrate his soldierly abilities. Commanding the Republican artillery, he was instrumental in driving a British force from the southern French port. Napoleon was one of those for whom the smell of gunpowder and the roar of cannon act like a strong stimulant. Possessed by a furious mania, he showed astonishing courage, along with the energy of a whirlwind, going for days on snatches of sleep while thinking and reacting with lightning speed. His extraordinary performance caught the attention of a man who would be intimately involved with Napoleon's life for some years. The Vicomte de Barras was to become one of the heads of the French government, as well as a lover of Napoleon's first wife, Josephine de Beauharnais. What most impressed the vicomte was the young soldier's "perpetual motion".

A Brotherhood of Tyrants (Hershman and Lieb)

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HITLER

Although it seems incredible that someone so filled with hate could ever appear to be likable, Hitler’s arsenal of manic assets included charm, and this helped him influence people. “When he was out to win someone over or to get something out of somebody,” Ribbentrop observed, “he could be extraordinarily charming and persuasive.”

Hitler was not a hyperactive ruler like Napoleon, but the manic energy he had when he campaigned was a considerable advantage – as it is for many politicians. It also occasionally assisted Hitler after his rise to power. At sometimes the ordinarily valetudinarian Hitler duplicated the freedom from physical need that Napoleon enjoyed during battle mania. “Astonishing are the explosions of his…sudden activity,” Dr. Hermann Rauschning, president of the Danzig parliament, said. “Then he neither tires nor hungers; he lives with morbid energy that enables him to do almost miraculous things.”

Most delusions are harmful to those who are misled by them; but one, the grandiose conviction that they have a special destiny, is the cornerstone of the careers of many people who become highly successful despite disadvantageous origins. Without that initially unproven faith in themselves, most people are unlikely to take the chances, make the sacrifices, and expend the effort in order to surpass the competition. It was certainly so in Hitler’s case. In 1919 he developed the grandiose delusion that he, alone of all mankind, understood all of human history and what he “understood” was that he would make Germany great. It was such delusions that enabled Hitler to fight his way to the leadership of Germany. Alfred Rosenberg, and early supporter, recorded that from the beginning Hitler had “a fanatical belief in his own mission which, toward the end, actually became incomprehensible.”

Get real folks.

Also PTSD can actually throw people into bipolar like symptoms.

Manic Depressives are extremely sensitive to circadian rythym disruption (sleep cycle), which is often cued and stabilized by normal exposure to light in evening (light past 10 pm especially 1-3 am, will actually prevent the brain from producing melatonin, important in maintaining circadian rythm and sleep. The far Northern climates have wildly different seasonal light patterns, exposing more of a populations bipolar tendencies. In our modern era, bipolar is exacerbated by artificial light, and bad sleeping habits.

The United States and Australia have the highest rates of bipolar in the world, but also are the most innovative and creative and fearless economies (at least the U.S.). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mog Rhod (talk • contribs) 23:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)