Talk:Berserk/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Updated Casca's profile 2 What we need on this page 2.1 What we don't need 3 Kentarou Miura interviews, and things 4 Taka (鷹) Translation 5 24.155.106.103 reverted vandalism (removed manga gallery)

Updated Casca's profile

After personally beating the Berserk game for the DC, I felt there was a very important event that happened with Casca to be left out of her main bio. I added this in, and I noted the problems if the DC game can be considered canon or not.

What we need on this page

First of all, I'm sorry for having edited this page so radically, but it was useless the way it was. Take a look at the Robotech article; that's the quality this page should aspire to!

• • I find this hard to belive, consitering a search for "mangled" or "butchered" found no results on that page.  ;P --Aknorals 09:54, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Robotech biases aside, it's a very informative and thoroughly researched article. Harp Heaven 18:03, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Kenpû Denki Berserk: Literally translated, "剣風伝奇ベルセルク" means "swordwind transmit odd Berserk."
• The Japanese publisher of the manga books.
  • Jets Comics --Aknorals 11:50, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • I found it just before I saw your entry :) Harp Heaven 18:03, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• The time-slots and the TV-channel where they aired at first in Japan and in the States.
  • It never aired in the U.S., as far as I know... the JPN air time was... very late, predawn even.... I'll provide more info when I find it. --Aknorals 11:50, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Awards the manga or anime has won.
• Separate pages for particular characters, even secondary ones
• A page dedicated to the unique and perhaps not so unique weaponry in the Miuraverse.
• Other merchandising than the video-games (card games, miniatures, action figures, the like)
• Something I've been thinking about is a list of the manga chapters. The Dark Horse editions I have list them as following:

Volume 1 

• • The Black Swordsman
  • The Brand
  • The Guardians of Desire, Chapter 1

Volume 2 

• • The Guardians of Desire, Chapter 2
  • The Guardians of Desire, Chapter 3

Volume 3 

• • The Guardians of Desire, Chapter 4
  • The Guardians of Desire, Chapter 5
  • The Guardians of Desire, Chapter 6
  • The Golden Age, Chapter 1

Volume 4 

• • The Golden Age, Chapter 2
  • The Golden Age, Chapter 3
  • The Golden Age, Chapter 4
  • The Golden Age, Chapter 5
  • The Golden Age, Chapter 6

Volume 5 

• • The Golden Age, Chapter 7
  • The Golden Age, Chapter 8
  • A Wind of Swords
  • Nosferatu Zodd, Chapter 1
  • Nosferatu Zodd, Chapter 2
  • Nosferatu Zodd, Chapter 3
  • Nosferatu Zodd, Chapter 4
  • Master of the Sword, Chapter 1

Volume 6 

• • Master of the Sword, Chapter 2
  • Assassin, Chapter 1
  • Assassin, Chapter 2
  • Assassin, Chapter 3
  • Assassin, Chapter 4
  • Precious Thing
  • Departure for the Front
  • Engagement
  • Casca, Chapter 1
  • Casca, Chapter 2

• True, we should also get the origional japanese name of the chapters. -- Aknorals 09:54, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Yeah, this would be really helpful. If we want to be comprehensive, this is the way to go. Harp Heaven 18:03, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

If someone can go through the Hawks's scanlations and do a similar list, it would be very helpful. Maybe we can exclude the individual chapters under each header. Still, I think it would be a somewhat worthy addition. I'm not really sure if it belongs here or not though. Harp Heaven 12:38, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• Just added a link to the list I created. --DragonKore 00:28, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

What we don't need

• Berserk glorification. I like this series as much as you do, but please, try to have a neutral POV. In case you're wondering, writing "some fans believe", or "fans really like" before your opinion does not constitute having a NPOV. Cut it out.
  • Well, I think an important part of an article about a modern work of fiction is to express why it has fans. But it certianly should only be used when nessecary... although it does give more insight. --Aknorals 09:54, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • It doesn't really give more insight if it's just one person writing on behalf of him and his anime messageboard. A proper way to emphasize the popularity or explain why it has fans would be to cite a professional reviewer or a professional survey. Having sentences like "Berserk is popular with a lot of anime fans and is really bloody and gory but also has a lot of psychological insight too" just undermines the credibility of the article and makes us look like a bunch of fourteen-year-old fanboys without a clue. If you could dig up a professional review from someone with clout in the business (not a website or anything similar), feel free to add a quote from it. Harp Heaven 18:03, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Story summaries, plot spoilers and the like, basically anything that has to do with what happens in the manga and anime. This is an encyclopedia article, and it's supposed to be informative. It isn't a fanpage. Take a look at the page for Full Metal Alchemist; it's nearly 46 kb big, and 95% of the content is about events in the anime. This is exactly what we should try to avoid. What should be in the wikipedia article are things relating to the publishing and writing of the manga.
  • Much of that appears to be copyright vio from here. Regardless, if the character section gets too big, we can allways move it to Characters of Berserk. Lets worry about having enough info on the characters first. --Aknorals 09:54, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Ideally, if we are to have a large section devoted to character descriptions, we should make a separate Wikipedia entry on them, like you said. Also, how much is enough info? I would say that giving their background and general role is enough for the article. Harp Heaven 18:03, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Spoilers are very important. As are plot summaries. And any article about a modern work of fiction that doesn't have "basically anything that has to do with what happens" in the story is quite pointless. --Aknorals 09:54, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Alright, I give in. I've started writing summaries of each of the manga chapters, this time without bad fanboy writing and spelling mistakes. Stay tuned. Harp Heaven 18:03, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • I'm glad you've decided to write something afterall, as I think cutting the entire plot summary was a bit hasty, and I do think it's an appropriate section to have. Of course, I'm biased, because currently, with the plot summary cut, there is no logical reason to link "Behelit" which I had originally written, and which, I think, makes sense as its own entry being an (admittedly fictional) object that people might want to look up information on. --Lord Shitzu 03:03, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
• Opinions about Miura's storytelling technique, like the deus ex machina element of the skull knight or the excessive comic relief of having Puck and Ishidoro at the same time.

That all sounds very resonable, but I nonetheless think a short summary of the events in the manga is necessary to understand the appeal of this story and the character descriptions below.

E.g.: For the character description of Guts to be useful, it needs to explain his motivations: to protect Caska and to get revenge on Griffith; same for the other main characters Caska and Griffith. But the explanation of their motivations only makes sense in the context of the story.

So a short (no longer than 2/3 sentences for each) description of the main events/story arcs may be in order, namely the Golden Age, the Eclipse and Guts time as the black swordsman. Another option would be a short timeline of events, for which this is a good ressource: [1] -- Xorx77 13:22, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The timeline does not sound like a good idea, but I agree that a short summary of the three major story arcs could be a potentially good option. What irks me with all these Wiki articles on anime is that they are so damn long, and there's very little information on them that I couldn't gather from just reading the manga or watching the anime in question. What is the use of having a story summary? Who reads them except for the person who writes them? I'm not asking rhetorical questions here, I'm genuinely curious as to what their value actually is. Those of us who have seen the anime/read the manga already know what happen. Those who haven't will get the entire plot spoiled. It seems like a pretty useless addition, if you ask me. Harp Heaven 15:38, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Who died?? Seriously. Did this cease to become a Wiki? While I do agree about Opinionated glorification - you do have to realise that Wikipedia is not quite your average encyclopedia and quite often, even in some of the best articles, uses more colourful emotive and descriptive language, while still remaining NPOV (One might even suggest they are great articles due to good usage of this). Mentioning roles, and perceived roles of characters - such as hero, anti-hero, yayoi love interest, comic relief and deus ex etc., are important factors in any story. No less here.

Wikipedia is not Animenfo. People may have conflicting opinions about things; e.g., I have a very negative relationship to Neon Genesis Evangelion, a series that I know is very popular with a lot of people, and thus I would have reacted very strongly if someone added "NGE is considered to be one of the finest examples of anime" in the main article. Who considers it to be so? Who are the "some fans", "many fans", "many" and all the other pseudonyms the authors of Wikipedia articles embrace for their edits? It's completely unnecessary. If you want to highlight the quality of the series, add entries for the awards it has won. If it hasn't won any, then post your reviews on Animenfo or any similar site.
We all agree that Puck is there for comic relief (in Volume 14, I think, Puck even says this himself, "without me the manga would be too dark"). That Skull Knight is a deus ex machina, however, is not something we universally agree upon (I don't think he is), and should not be included. We could add that Griffith eventually becomes the main villain in the story. I agree that it's an important factor, though. Let's try sticking to the accepted. Harp Heaven 15:38, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The main role of the Skull Knight seems to be act mysterous and save people who Miura doesn't want to die yet. If that isn't a deus ex machina, then I'm not sure what is. --Aknorals 09:54, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

As I stated before, understanding how the majority and minority of fans persive a series is important to understanding the series itself. I also don't belive that everyone who uses "many fans" is speaking about themeselves. --Aknorals

Your Skull Knight comments are sound, but I'm still not sure whether we should leave it in the article. Since we don't know how it all ends, we really don't have any business adding our opinions about it. NPOV, people, NPOV. Harp Heaven 18:03, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Take a gander at Hamlet#Main_characters: "(Polonius) is a fatuous bore".

Plot spoilers, in terms of a general sense of the action involved, are also encyclopedia norms. We are trying to be comprehensive. This does not mean linking somewhere and saying go here. It means a summary, citing the resource(s) used.--ZayZayEM 14:07, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. Plot spoilers are indeed unavoidable with entries about characters that appear late in the story (Femto being a prime example), but that doesn't mean that we need a large section of this article devoted to a plot summary like Hamlet has, since Berserk and Hamlet are miles apart in terms of cultural and historical relevance. If we are to have a plot summary, I suggest it be done in the way that Xorx77 suggested. No need for vivid descriptions and fanboyisms, keep it short and simple. Harp Heaven 15:38, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Berserk is long. It will get much longer. As it does, it may become difficult for people to rember what happened 10 volumes ago. "Spoilers" can also remind people of what happened. Dismissing spoilers completly seems foolish --Aknorals 11:50, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Another thing we don't are bios for characters who aren't really essential to the storyline. Deceased/inactive characters who bear no personal connection the the group that Guts and Griffith are traveling with have no place in the character page. Or least the main one. What I suggest is Creating a new Berserk page dedicated to the characters who fell by the wayside (Theresia for example), so the main players in the story so far take more prominence in the main Berserk page. Though a "main characters of Berserk" is also a welcome alternative. Martisty 22:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Kentarou Miura interviews, and things

I'll try collecting a nice list of articles/interviews with Kentarou Miura/about Berserk for both this article and the Kentaro Miura article. -- Philip Nilsson 22:18, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC) -- Please add anything you find here!

• A nice Kentarou Miura biography.
• The same interview that is linked in the article.
• An interview with the anime series producer, Toshio Nakatani.

Taka (鷹) Translation

I've been thinking about translation "鷹 (Taka)" to Falcon instead of Hawk in the Berserk sections on Wikipedia. I came to this idea from seeing Miura romanize that Kanji to Falcon ("Millennium Falcon: Falconia" in the Katakana about the Kanji in each bi-weekly issue of Berserk in Young Animal) rather then Hawk,(which never appears in the manga). This may be a big deal, as it's commonly accepted that "鷹の団" is translated as "Band of the Hawk" (as opposed to "Falcon's Band/Band of the Falcon") but I think it's worth a discussion since it's a more faithful English translation to what Miura wanted Griffith to be referred to.

• • yeah you're right the CORRECT translation is actually "Falcon" not "Hawk". You're right about "Millenium Falcon" as it's clearly written in small katakana "千年帝国の鷹(ミレニアム・ファルコン)" on top of (or beside written in the same size but between parenthesis) of it's kanji form as a pronunciation hint for Japanese readers (seen on the japanese games covers, OST covers and official sites). "ミレニアム・ファルコン" are only English words written in Japanese for those who don't know katakana. It clearly says "Millenium Falcon" (MILENIAMU-FALUCON), remember Kentaro Miura's an old Star Wars fan right? If you know what i mean! ^^
  • In France, a friend told me they have kept "La Bande des Faucons" (Band of Falcons) instead of "La Bande des Aigles" (Band of Hawks) in the fansub, I'm not sure about the official edition though.
  • They're other mistranslations i think as "Chudder" for "Tudor" (both テューダー/チューダー forms are used in Japan), "Locus" for "Rox", "Rackshas" for "Laxas", "Vandimion" for "Van Dimion" (with the "Van" noble prefix apart), "Irvine" for "Erwin" ("Erving" is another form of Erwin, Erving Goffman for the students outhere) "Behelit" instead of "Beherit" (Hebrew name), "Isidro" instead of "Isidoro" (correct Spanish name), "God Hand" instead of "Hand of God" has translated in the anime's prologue with Void speaking about the "hand of God hovering above" and Void's hand holding a Beherit as still background. I've even noticed some cast name changes in the anime ending credits from an episode to another... "Judeau" could also be "Judeaux" (french name) or "Judeo" ("Judaeo") as they're are many Judaism references and names (Samson, Joachim, Erwin, etc.) in Berserk...
    • "Isidro" is just another derivitation of "Isidoro," of which, both are acceptable. The "Isidro" English spelling for the character is the legitimate translation, according to the character biographies in the Japanese manga. I agree that "Beherit" is a more faithful translation instead of "Behelit" (which has no pre-existing meaning prior to Berserk) & needs to be changed in the main Berserk artile and it's own seperate page (which still needs to be Wikified properly). Martisty 22:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
      • You're probably right for Isidro (there's a city called "san isidro"), however "BEHELIT" (alphabet) is used on the soundtrack CD's backcover. The CD is an offcial product relased by Vap the published of the anime series. So maybe it's "BEHELIT" after all. EnthusiastFRANCE 16:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
    • The other names such as "Locus," "Judeau" & "Irvine" can be debated, though it's unlikely "Rakshas" has any other alternative spelling, as it's a reference to a type of Hindu demon & Miura likes to make references to these sort of things in Berserk. Martisty 22:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
      • I used "Laxias" because it is a latin name (while rakshas mean nothing) and Miura also likes them e.g. "adonis", "yurius" or "adon." i don't known which one is the right translation. EnthusiastFRANCE 15:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
      • They have even officialy used "Ogle" (in English) instead of "Ogre" in the PS2 game, so i guess Berserk's real name (mis)translation is an endless debate my friend! I guess our sons will continue to debate it after us!! ^^ I know it by experience... (talking about Fist of the North Star article) EnthusiastFRANCE 00:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
      • That translation was of the world "Ogre" was from the JPN PS2 Berserk game, which isn't considered cannon with the manga story (Guts finishing Grunberd off, inclusion of other non-manga characters, zero sexually explicit scenes, etc.). Art of War's no better either, (Zoddo, etc.). In essense, I don't trust anything except for what Miura puts down in his Berserk tankōbon. One last thing I forgot to mention: "Vandimion" is an accurate translation. Thereis no break between "Van" & "Dimion". Farnese's family already has a middle intial: "de" (it's sounds like "Do(h)" because of the difference between Japanese and English phonetic structure, but it might not be if Miura ever confirms otherwise). The middle initial can be found in volume 29/30 whenever a Vandimion's full name is being spoken. Martisty 22:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
      • I've just cited "ogle" as an exemple of "official" katakana mistranslation, not considering the game's plot which is another debate. Miura had an overciew of the game since it's a licensed product. What i mean is Miura has possibly made katakana mistranslations himself. Katakana mistranslation are usual in japan and overseas. EnthusiastFRANCE 16:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
      • You are refering to vol.29 chapter 6 page 12 according to skullknight.net however i can't find it in the french fan translate. It seems the circulating scans are based on a japanese translation and that the others are translations of the translation (as red on the french scan credit telling "the front cover cannot be found anywhere..."). It's like the volume is translated from Japanese to Italian than from Itlaian to French than from French to English or whatever order, which ends on a not reliable source at all (without even mentioning fan translaters can make mistakes as well), since i can read "vendemion" on the french translate and "magnifico" which is french common (french -magnifique- and spanish adjective -magnifico- biased) mistranslation from the spanish/italian name "manifico". "magnifico" would be a different katakana with the spelled "G" as in "gamble". Can someone with the japanese original manga could post the URL (you can use the free service www.imageshack.us) of a low-res scan page part bearing the "do vandimion" as a proof please? ^^ (posting a partial screenshot is legal) EnthusiastFRANCE 16:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
      • About "Farnese de Vandimion" ("de" is the middle word for both french and spanish noblemen, "van" is used in belgium so "de" sounds more possible), however it is curious there is not a single google occurence of "ド•ヴァンティミイン" except in the japanese wikipedia (it could have been written by a non-japanese person so it prouves nothing), i'll try to found more about this on the japanese site of berserk or ask a japanese about this, just to be sure. BTW "farnese" seems to be an italian name, (there's also an italian wine). The japanese Wikipedia refers to "vandimion" as vandimion (in katakana) without the "de", it is surprising that an otaku has not corrected it yet. EnthusiastFRANCE 16:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
      • About ミュール "Mule" i've used intentionally used "Muhl" which is a france/belgium used name. The french city "Mulhouse" (mhuelouze, not mu-house) near the german border is derivated from "Muhl". The city's german name is "Mülhausen". Mule is an unimaginative (and english biaised) translation of ミュール, Muhl is based on context and seems far more appropriate for a knight than "mule"... There is alos the "Mühl" german variation, which could be the original form of the one used in france and belgium. i'm seeking for romaji evidence in japanese official sites right now. EnthusiastFRANCE 14:33, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I think it's better to use the US Anime/Comic version's terms (wikipedia uniformization) though, because newcomers won't get it. You could create a "Trivia" section and add your info in maybe. The main article definitely needs a trivia section anyway. Just look at the Fist of the North Star article as a reference, i'm sure we still can upgrade the Berserk article! EnthusiastFRANCE 04:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Based on a global scale, I believe it's better to be as accurate as possible to the original Japanese (Falcon, not Hawk, Causality, not Fate, etc.) as the American version has taken liberties with Miura's work. It's because of weak translations from scanlators like the Hawks and Evil-Genius that faulty information/stupid theories spread across the internet and that's not what Wikipedia's about. Martisty 22:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
    • I see no objection to use a more accurate independant (neutral) translation rather than the one used by Anime Works on the US edition though. What will be difficult is to agree on the translations which is long and uneasier thing to do. EnthusiastFRANCE 15:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Things are not easy because of the various official licensed products bearing romaji mistakes like "Ogle" for "Ogre" (PS2 Japanese game, just an exemple) or variations like "Gats" for "Guts" (Berserk Japanese OST CD). Official Berserk action figures maker (Yamato) Art Of War uses "Hawk Soldiers" just like in the American anime (cf. ending credits) for the Band of the Hawk characters (inc. Griffith). So maybe it's not "falcon" after all, even if this term is used in the European versions. I've noticed different translators in the American Anime, and they seems to have made erroneous translations like "Sulan" for "Slan" and "Yubikku" for "Ubik". The problem is even the Japanese persons under license from Miura don't exactly knows, it would have been a lot easier if Miura has used alphabet as the official names not the katakana which is already an awkward variation of the original names. EnthusiastFRANCE 16:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
• The spellings on the various merchandise outside of the Japanese manga are irrevelent, on account that Miura didn't have complete control over that aspect of his Berserk license. Just because Young Animal/Hakusensha licenses it out for distrubution doesn't mean it got Miura's stamp of approval and be considered official canon in Miura's work. The only thing garenteed to be official are what's in the manga volumes. And why would Miura use anything else but Hiragana in naming his characters? This is a fictional work for a Japanese audiance and doing so would just be out of the question. Martisty 07:09, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
• "Miura didn't have complete control over that aspect of his Berserk license" i completely disagree with this, since the license is based on the use of trademarks and that trademarks are made after the original spelling for the character (Miura's). Using different names than the ones of Miura himself would make the trademarks useless and illigitimate. Try to have a look on Miura's interview about the Anime conversion from his manga and how Miura had control on the plot. It's like George Lucas's control over the merchandise, he (or actually his representatives) can check things. "why would Miura use anything else but Hiragana in naming his characters?" why? because "Charlotte", "Colette", "Gaston" etc are existing european names, so he must have them wrote in alphabet somewhere (in his character/location studies) as they are not familiar with Japanese persons. He could share them with license clients. What i think is Miura has made katakana-to-alphabet translation mistakes himself. "This is a fictional work for a Japanese audiance" yes but the Japanese often uses english "in the text" words just because english writing/sounding is "cool" for the japanese. Exemple, Susumu Hirasawa use the english word "FORCES" as the gimmick for his japanese songs and these songs are made for a japanese audience, therefore according to you it should have been the japanese word. Other exemples are alphabet is used for "Berserk" (while BERUSERUKU katakana is used for the manga) on the video release for Japan, the japanese-only video games use english (alphabet), and japanese market licensed products uses english (alphabet) as well (ART OF WAR figures have the character name written in english). EnthusiastFRANCE 16:45, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • • • Actually, if you want to be independant to the English version, there are some changes to be made. From what we hear in the Japanese anime, using "Doldorey" would be more accurate than using "Doldrey", same for "Rickeruto" not "Ricket" and we also should use "Gatsu" instead of "Guts". In Italy they use "Pack" not the English "Puck". It's quite puzzling and almost unsolvable. EnthusiastFRANCE 04:00, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
• Basing official Berserk info on the anime is a mistake, as it's not official part of Miura's original work, but an adaptation of it. The way "Doldrey" is pronounced in Japanese ("Dorudorei/ドルドレイ") is because of the way the Japanese language is structured. Ditto for every else you mentioned about the names. And "Gatsu" is the wrong spelling for "Guts" name: Miura officially stated how to spell Guts' name in Western alphabet at the beginning of each tankoubun starting with # 27. It's not unsolvable at all. Martisty 07:09, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
• thanks but i'm not new with katakana (got my first katakana chart back in 1990), the truth is "ドルドレイ" can be "Dordoray", "Dolldolei", "Dordolet" w/mute "T" according to the french spelling since katakana are not only english words but all non-japanese including Okinawa dialect and a same katakana can refer to many words. Only the official romanized spelling used by Miura or a licensor can define the exact spelling for some katakana words (including fictional/proper nouns).
• good! can you post a partial scan of the japanese original page (too many fanscans are circulating) you mentioned please? (you can use the free www.imageshack.us service). I'm like Saint-Thomas d'Aquin, i like to see with my own eyes instead of trusting speeches. I'd like to be sure that's all. EnthusiastFRANCE 16:50, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • • It's true that Berserk needs a trivia section (for references mostly and influences), but I still vote a more faithful translation of what the 鷹 Kanji. Plus, I don't the way Dark Horse/Media Blasters translates certain elements in the Berserk manga/anime. When viewing the original manga/anime and comparing the translations Dark Horse/Media Blasters have used, there are consistent errors (besides the sporadic misspellings, there are the noun translations of "Beherit" "Casca" and so forth); most notable in the manga, the lack of a reference to Causality; Inga ritsu (Causality Law/因果律) is a hinderance. Causality, not Fate, is the main principle Miura plays with in Berserk and there is an inherent difference between the two. Causality has an ideology of "cause and effect", while Fate is more an end result regardless. In other words, Causality in principle has a projected path to arranging things (such as Guts encountering Isidro, Farnese and Serpico right after he tried to rape Casca under the Beast's influence) to happen in a certain way. There's an implied choice in the matter, whereas Fate is in itself, inevitable and static. Martisty 22:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Now that you mentioned First of the North Star", why does that link (and now the one to "Bastard!") keep popping up in the Berserk section? I know Miura was exposed to "FotNS" in the 1980s, but I can't say there's any other connection between the two other then they're violent nature and romanticized independent ideals. "Bastard!" is even more confusing as, besides the medieval background and violence, there's not much relating it to Berserk either. I propose having thoese references removed, as they don't add anything in explaining Berserk. You might as well throw in "Record of Lodoss War" or "Lord of the Rings" into the "Similarities" subcatory too. There are non-anime works which at least are worth mentioning (in a future Trivia section), such as Flesh and Blood; it has a stronger association with Berserk then the other titles I mentioned, as Miura stated it at least influenced his work. Martisty 22:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
      • How can we have both the official US names, katakana, and REAL translation names together without messing the characters section? Do you have any technical idea on how to do that? Maybe a separated article.
    • the way things are set up now (Official name, Katakana & pronounciation) work fine. Martisty 22:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
      • • Look at the character section... now look at WP:MOS-JA See something wrong? It's been bothering me for a while, but I never got around to it... I'll fix it in a little bit if someone else doesn't get to it first... (making the names conform to how the naming conventions for Japanese language are supposed to look, for those that don't get at what I'm talking about) - Aknorals 12:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Good to read your note about Causality and Fate. Maybe the Fatum (actually "God hovering above") aspect is traditionally within European (American) culture and is part of the Greek tragedy tradition. Maybe this is one of the reason why the American publisher has adapted (localized) the Berserk overview with the religious (fate) aspect in mind, if you ask me. Beside there's this old European saying "translating is betraying"...
        • No, it is a translation error (calling it Fate), and it looks like it may be fixed in future releases. [2] -Aknorals 11:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
      • I was sure you will talk to me about Lodoss War! ^^ Ok man you're probably right, i'll remove it until the Trivia section is started. I still think Bastard!! is closer to Berserk than ROLW, to me Record of Lodoss War is more in the LOTR classic tradition and rather different in term of graphic style and mature elements and violence. There is really nothing more than the "Pippin" and the "Ant" (animated tree) references in Berserk explicitely inherited from LOTR. But all right.
        • I always figured that Bastard!! was a game of D&D gone horribly horribly wrong... of course, the same may be said of Slayers so... -Aknorals 11:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
        • Also: Bastard's take on realism as it relates to fantasy is nearly opposite how berserk deals with realsim... I mean really, spells per day? Same goes with historical references here... -Aknorals 12:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
          • Berserk nor Bastard!! have nothing to do with Slayers's graphical style! nor Vaelber Saga (nor Clamp's work) if you've in mind to quote all classic HF manga... Noboteru Yuki's character design is more kawai style oriented and is far less "noir" than Berserk/Bastard!!. Talking about "elves", "trolls" and "undead" et caetera in Berserk is true to historical fact, "realism" speaking... Berserk is Heroic Fantasy work as well as Bastard!! this is not History Miura himself has stated there were a lot of anachronisms and he only likes and uses what looks cool! EnthusiastFRANCE 20:37, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
      • The reason i would like "Hokuto No Ken" to be mentioned here is to introduce the series to newcomers searchin' for something in the vein of Berserk. Even if Miura doesn't talk about it, it's pretty obvious Hokuto No Ken's "ultraviolent" style has inspired Berserk, not talking about the Guts/Ken physical ressemblance. But you're right, there are many others references worthy to be mentioned in the fututre Trivia section including "Conan The Barbarian" and Rudger Hauer .
      • About "Falcon" i've checked a few international official sites for the US Berserk article update i've made today and it seems "Hawks" is only used in America. The German uses "Falken" and the Spanish "Halcon" both are meaning "Falcon". Maybe George "TM" Lucas doesn't wanna hear about Millenium Falcon!! ^^

EnthusiastFRANCE 23:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

24.155.106.103 reverted vandalism (removed manga gallery)

Don't you have better things to do than mess in the article? The manga gallery is here to show the title's graphism variation. It has been inspired by the Star Wars bonus dvd's international promo gallery. As an encyclopedia, this brief international gallery is legitimated here, the article is not about "Berserk in America" but a neutral Berserk (in the world) article written in English. EnthusiastFRANCE 01:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

• OK i've just watched your 24.155.106.103 history log... so you're just a vulgar vandal, words are useless, go get a life kid!! How a such useless a****** can even exists?! People like you are the Wikipedia plague. It kills me. EnthusiastFRANCE 01:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)