Talk:Berserk (manga)

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Berserk (manga) article.
Article policies
To-do list for Berserk (manga): edit · history · watch · refresh
  • Finish writing this todo list.
  • Remove obvious inaccuracies
  • Make article not suck
  • Add inline citations
Priority 4  
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Archive
Archives
  1. January 2005 – April 2006
  2. Disagreement about transliterations found on "offical" sources
  3. First attempt to move Berserk (manga) back to Berserk, which an admin had changed into a redirect of berserker


Contents

[edit] For the curious

(aka: "page move fun") -Aknorals 21:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC) note: Please keep this section here, and keep it on the top of the page for historical reasons.

For the curious... the article on Berserk is now here instead of at Berserk (anime) because the manga came first and is still ongoing. -Sean Curtin 07:50, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Unfortuantly, he doesn't note here that berserk (anime) and berserk (manga) used to be in seperate articles, and for some reason (possibly because the anime was more well known at the time(?), or perhaps because berserk (anime) was more detailed), it was decided to merege into berserk (anime) instead of berserk (manga). -Aknorals 21:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Berserk is now about the Berserk anime and manga. The old article no longer exsists... I think... it was mainly an article that started out about berserker but, as that aricle already exsisted, was redirected to that aricle, then later to berserker (disambiguation) then later to berserk (manga) .... I thought it would be good just to cut the garbage and have the berserk article be about the berserk anime and manga. This page contains a link to the disambiguation page, besides, berserk is not commonly used in english as a noun. -Aknorals 00:43, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Funny nobody had a problem with it from january 12, 2005 to may 2006.... Not one person nominated it for a move.... I'd also like to add a reason for moving that I didn't list back then: quite frankly, I was sick of reverting anon-IP vandals that kept on turning it into a redirect to berserker -Aknorals 21:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

WOW!! First off, I'd like to say I i'm sad I didn't get to post this summary sooner, as things have already changed. I'll explain that part later. I'm going to seperate my summary and my comments on that, so here goes -Aknorals 13:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Summary: And then, for a time, there was piece. I didn't have to worry about vandals changing my disambiguation into a redirect, or the article itself moving around at all. There was no complaints about the name durring this time. None at all. If there was, they would have been added to the talk page. But on May 8th, 2006, an admin moved the article which had been at Berserk sense January 2006 to Berserk (manga). He then make Berserk into a redirect for berserker He did this without (presumably) looking through the talk page's history for this note, without making sure the concenus would agree with the move, (presumably) without checking to see why the editors got it moved to [Berserk]] to begin with, without checking to see "what links here" (or he wouldn't have broken every single link designated for the anime/manga/game article), without talking about it on the talk page, without allowing any debate, or the propper Wikipedia process to go through at WP:RM, (presumably, without also looking at the article, or he would have noticed that only a section of the article is about the manga itself; the rest is about the anime and the games) and without even listing a reason for the move. I was at/recovering from Anime Central at the time, but the day after I immediatly fixed it to make it a redirect to berserk (manga). I figured this would be a good interm solution, as it would fix the problem of the numerous broken links this admin had created (not to mention the fact that it made going to the manga/anime/game article a 4-step pain in the ass). My edit note stated that I would go to his talk page to explain how that was an un-adminlike move when I had the time, but I didn't have the time for several weeks....

<my comments on why what he did goes against various guidlines/policies here, citing specific examples> -Aknorals 13:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

In the meantime, there were no complaints from people looking for information about berserkers at all for several weeks <bah, i'm tired, i'll finish the summary later.. i'll explain the move attempt, and the reason it failed to achive consensus> -Aknorals 13:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

<my comments, i'll point to examples of why i think many of the people voting "oppose" were making an argument of emotion (mainly the fact that my disputing their reasons only caused them to change their reasons, not their choice)> -Aknorals 13:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I was going to make a big prediction here about how this was a very bad move, and will lead to great page instability, vandalism, and edit/revert/move wars, and that Berserk will never be a stable place untill this article (manga, anime, games etc), but it appears I have been beaten to the punch on this one -- not by an anon IP, but by the same admin from before!! He must not have read our discussion, or the fact that only 2 people who voted "oppose" actually wanted it to be a redirect to berserker, and that I'm sure I speak the majority of the supporters when I say that haveing berserk be it's own redirect page is a non-crazy 2nd best option (though it's amazingly silly, for reasons that will be listed above). <more stuff about the edit/revert war one of the opposers has had the pleasure of having, thanks to his own decision (which, I remeber warning about several times in the voting, btw)> -Aknorals 13:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

<note urging other people not to put Berserk (manga) back up for WP:RM untill we clear up the things that made us lose not win, causing the rambo admin to prevail in the first place> -Aknorals 13:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Important Announcment

<placeholder for important anouncement in the form of an epic, awe-inspiring speach that I'll write later... though here's a hint: it's allready begun. And I'm (thankfully) not talking about these damn edit/revert/move wars either.> -Aknorals 21:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Berserk infobox template request

I tried to make an infobox as seen in the Naruto thing footpage. Thought it was an auto process gathering all links in a special layout, but it didn't worked out. Seems like it is necessary to create a specific template... EnthusiastFRANCE 16:29, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I've created a template at Template:Berserk_info. If you want to see how the Naruto template was implemented go to Template:Naruto_info. To append it to the end of the article, put in {{Berserk info}}. I didn't populate it cause I don't really know what you have in mind for it. --Miss Ethereal 17:04, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Merci lady! ^^ i'll figure it out. What i have in mind is simple, to replace the "World of Berserk" section by a similar template. EnthusiastFRANCE 18:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
    • I've seen you've made it today Lady! Well done (merci) ^^. EnthusiastFRANCE 17:49, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
De rien.  :P --Miss Ethereal 17:53, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Berserk Article Getting Way Too Cluttered

This article has improved a lot since I last saw it, but it's getting way too cluttered. Things need to be split up and removed (including some of the stuff in the infoboxes). Soundtracks don't need to be placed in the infobox (there's a section devoted to that already in the "World of Berserk" section and the links in the infobox are generally reserved for links to wikipedia articles (at least that's my understanding). There is also a size warning on this article. --Miss Ethereal 17:33, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

  • too long? yeah, maybe a little bit (all good articles are too long anyway). BTW the 138KB Japanese article is way longer! LOL (and there's not a single picture there because of a specific legal issue). "cluttered"? Ok i'll remove the soundtrack in the infobox and replace the trading card game URL. I've used the URL instead of a blank wikilink because of the article not being created yet (it definitely needs to be made). In other hand, there should be some grammar mistakes here and there and some approximative ("Frenglish") phrases must be rewritten in a proper English, as this is not my language (i also use the French punctuation which is probably slightly different than the English one). The article will be splitted up for sure, the recent extensions were made for it (World of Berserk gives the direction). EnthusiastFRANCE 18:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Lighter infobox. EnthusiastFRANCE 18:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
    • By leaps and bounds the English Berserk Wikipedia article has improved substantially (inclusion of Berserk globally instead of just in Japan and America). Just fix up the infobox at the end and the article can look truly professional. However, it is indeed very cluttered and needs to be broken down. But it's definitely getting there. Martisty 22:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Seconded. The character section needs to move to it's own page, ASAP. A shorter summary of some of the more important characters (guts, griffith, casca, and some of the newer "family" members such as Isidro and whonot) should be kept on the main page, for reasons of nessity, etc. The "world of berserk" part looks like it might make a good template... (‽) Eventually we can do all sorts of other stuff with the characters, such as lists by faction, cronological introduction, or some of the main characters could get their own article e.g. Guts (Berserk), but for now, we should move the character section to it's own article.... Aknorals 11:56, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
So I did some changes and think it looks better. If not, you can always revert my edits. I moved the character section onto it's own page, leaving the main characters on the main article (Guts, Griffith, and Casca ... I moved Puck into the "Secondary Character" section). I've also populated the Template:Berserk info with the "World of Berserk" section and replaced the section with the template. The external links still need to be cleaned up and lots of disambiguation needs to be done on some of the items on the template. --Miss Ethereal 17:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
good for me. EnthusiastFRANCE 21:30, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I think there are too many images. Shawnc 02:50, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Individual character profile ?

I think we could split the characters section into several articles, using the Initial D CHR article as a basic reference. The main/secondary characters short bio could be enhanced with a picture (anime/manga) per character, an alternative name (ex:"Irvind"/"Erwin", "Chuder"/"Tudor"), weapon, status (general/noble/mercenary/elf), possible/known reference for the name ("Pippin" LOFTR, "God Hand CHR" from novels, Balzac from the French author, Minister Voss is appearing in a popular 60's SF BBC series) and CHR inspiration (Guts/Rudger Hauer) from Miura's statements (or argumented highly possible). Also, some special morphing CHR could have their two appearances (GutsTeen/BlackSwordsman,Puck/ChibiPuck, NosferatuZodd/ApostleZod, etc.).

The actual article could be split up as following (inspired from the japanese article):

  • Main CHR (profile): Guts (Black Swordsman), Griffith (reborn), Casca (amnesic)
  • Secondary CHR: those not going in any of the following subsections (appearing in the anime/manga, ex: Gambino)
  • Manga CHR (profile): Puck, Evarella, Schierke, etc (those not appearing in the anime)
  • Secondary Manga CHR (profile): Skull Knight, Flora, etc (the "lesser" importance characters, not the minor -like "Colette" in the anime-, they're too much of them)
  • Original CHR (profile): Balzac, Rita, Charles

GROUPS (profile)

  • God Hand CHR: you know who
  • Band of the Hawk: Corcus, Pippin, Judeau, Rickert, Guts (teen), Casca (teen), Griffith (teen)
  • New Band of the Hawk: Zodd, Grunbeld, etc.
  • House Vandimion: Farnese, Federico, Serpico, etc

MIDLAND NOBLE (profile)

  • Charlotte, the king, the queen, yurius, adonis, etc
  • minister Foss, Raban, etc

TUDOR MAIN CHR (profile)

  • Baron Adon, Shogun Boscon, Gouvernor Guenon, Samson

KUSHAN MAIN CHR (profile)

  • Ganishka, Thapasa, etc

Let me know what do you think of it. EnthusiastFRANCE 08:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

  • All that is too much to do right now: start off small & leave out the immense content, (nations, classes, etc.) for later. Focus on just creating a seperate page for the significant characters of Berserk before branching off. I also fixed a few misspellings (Kushans, not Khusians, etc.) Martisty 22:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
    • I mostly agree with you people, i know it's a dirty job, but someone's gotta to do it.
    • Actually it's not "Kushan" but "Khushian", Kushan is the English pronunciation (this is your own katakana form ^^), i used the original tadjik word as found on the japanese google. I also found "Kusyan" on the japanese official site of Berserk, BUT ^^ even the Japanese uses different romanizations of their katakana, as described in the Hepburn romanization article. Using Kushan for Khushian is like using "Italy" for "Italia", katakana words doesn't have english origins (even if it's probably the majority in the modern Japanese) exemple "Pan" for bread which is the Spanish word. Same thing for "Gilles" (french name) or "Jill" (english name) or "Volkoff" or "Borkov", the translation of the Russian "off" or "ov" or "ev" or "eff" is not same in all countries. For exemple we (French) use "Gorbatchiov" (or "Gorbatchev") when you (English) use "Gorbachev", or "Oussama Ben Laden" when you use "Usama Bin Laden", what i mean, is we both have to take care of this matter of fact and try to be neutral, as the Japanese katakana is independant from both the French and the English or the Italian or whatsever pronunciation. EnthusiastFRANCE 04:25, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
      • I type it in that spelling to conform to the English standards on the English Wikipedia page (Kushans links to the article on the empire, whereas Khushian goes nowhere). By the way パン/Pan is taken from the Cantonese word "Pão," the bun. Martisty 07:09, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
        • i see your practical use but you can use the write right word and link to another wikilink as ((Kushan|Khushian)) (replacing the parenthesis by brackets). We have to define which word has to be used between the English (true/highly possible) translation, English (comic/anime) official translation or the (thought) original word (talking about the katakana form refers to), this is just like character names. "Khushan" leads to nothing on google, but "khushian" leads to many things including www.khushian.com and in the japanese wikipedia it leads to クシャーナ朝 in the India/Iran/Pakistan area. Khushian is a popular indian name, there are artist and author named khushian (as pointed by google). Here's the "Kusyan" image i mentioned before "Kusyan" on the japanese official site. "Kusyan" is a possible romanization of "Kushian" not "Kushan". The "Kushan" referred sites are english speaking (australia, canada etc.) or french speaking. The Khushian era is designate in Japan as "クシャーン時" with the "シャーン meaning "shian" or shan because of the "シャ" (sya, shia or sha).
        • パン pan is portugese (and spanish) for "bread", french is "pain" . The cantonese simply use the portugese word as well. "Pão" is the portugese word for bread (with the portuguese accent)... Pan and Pao were both introduced in Asia by the portuguese. As you probably know, the portuguese sailors did trade with Taiwan ("Formose" in europe) and the island was known as "Ilha Formosa" which is the portugese word for beautiful... and the portuguese were trading with the japanese as well, in the kyushu area, and then introduced the "pan" there. EnthusiastFRANCE 13:42, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Berserk in Sweden

Sorry Wakuran, you're right the edition available in Sweden is actually the US import (just like in the UK). My source was Berserk in Sweden, it's only available in the Sverige section. They used either "Haftad", either "Pocket" which latter is a book format. Thanks for correcting! ^^ I've also removed the line refering to it in the paragraph. It's pretty bizarre they don't publish Berserk in Scandinavia since berserk is a norsk word. Is there anyone from UK out there? I'm still surprised Berserk is not published locally by Penguin Books ^^ or by one of its alike. EnthusiastFRANCE 03:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World of Berserk

  • i've added the "100 Years War" reference (historical notion) which is mentioned in the japanese article and has been pointed and kind of studied a while ago in the french article.
  • I found another Biblic reference "Baptism" in the anime so i've added it, and i've splitted the dictionnary into history/religion/philosophy/geography. I think i've heard "koroshi" (murder) which is closer to "sacrifice" than baptism, but someone pointed before me, the US publisher has taken some liberties with the original work. I'll watch the episode again tomorrow to be sure (i have the US edition w/english sub not the french one). If it's koroshi, it doesn't matter, the theology term will be "sacrifice" instead. In Italia the episode is named "Il Sacrifico" (the sacrifice) i don't remember about the English one, i don't think it's "sacrifice" though. Using "baptism" for "murder" is a vivid exemple of what i've pointed (on a previous topic) as a cultural adaptation (localization) due to religion. I mean it's not a mistranlation... there are japanese (by their name!) pro translators, i mean they know the difference between "koroshi" and "jossen" or "senren" (japanese words for baptism) right? or maybe changing a "violent" word by another one "softer" is part of a mild censorship. I let you make your mind by yourself.
  • Actually i've used "theology" instead of "religion" (the biblic references i have pointed on a previous topic) mainly because i like "y" ending words ^^ (so there are all sounding the same it's pretty cool!) but also because it's a wider concept allowing us to host not properly "religious" notions such as beherit (look for its hebrew meaning). I repeat i've created the World of Berserk section a few days ago as a stub, i made it quickly, with rough wikilinks etc. It's up to us, to add terms and refine it all together. So don't be shy, you can add your own notions, we'll setting up things later. Splitting up the dictionary will make easier searches. EnthusiastFRANCE 04:47, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use images

There are, by my count, 19 fair use images in the article. The article is about a series of copyrighted visual artworks so some fair use images are to be expected but I'd try to get them down to maybe five or six. See Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith for an example of a featured article with only FU images. Haukur 13:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I've been wanting to remove some of the unneeded images for a while (why are we making "galleries"?), though I fear the second I start doing so, their uploader will just put them back on the page (he's kinda a "trawl", and I scared him off the talk page already, though not before he scared several off whatever editors these articles had left I fear... check out the second archive for that mess...)... some of the more usefull ones would be better off if I made a page on that specific topic, such as the TCG and whatnot... I think the overview section on the games itself should use only one or two pictures (like maybe just the ps2 one, because it looks cool). I've been spending more time removing whatever horrible innacuracies have accumliated over time/were added by enthusiastFRANCE, and trying to make the article make some ammount of sense... I'm also thinking about changing the layout slightly, like maybe bumping the list of berserk tv episodes subsection into List of Berserk anime episodes or something like that, and putting a section about music in there somwhere, that should help the fact that the the links to the soundtracks are spread throughout the page a bit... I may also want to explain the bit about why the aricle uses the terms "episode", "chapter", and "arc" a certian way, and where those terms come from..... sorry, just thinking outloud. -Aknorals 20:25, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and as far as copylefted images go, there's this one that is a "Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.0" creative commons one, but I don't feel like explaining that one now... -Aknorals 20:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Attemps at a sequel

The article makes mention that there is no sequel in production and that many still incorrectly believe there to be a sequel in the works….. but it dose not mention that the shows director (whose name I forget) said that he hoped to continue it, perhaps misinterpretations of that statement lead to much of the confusion regarding the alleged sequel.

Also according to the magazine anime insider a considerable amount of effort from many producers and other people involved had been put in to getting a sequel made. And that Kentaro Miura had allegedly said that he felt that there was not enough of the story left to adapt, leading some to assume he simply was making excuses as to why he did not want it continued Leon Evelake 18:53, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More U.S. Releases

Dark Horse Comic's website confirms that Volume 14 is about to be unleashed to the public December 6th of this year. This mean that Dark Horse Comics is producing beyond the original scope of the first 13 manga. However, this does not mean that they will go as far as the 31st volume, the most recent issue.--MrDopple 18:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Volume 16 seems to be aviable for pre-order with a release date Mar 28, 2007 Fornadan (t) 23:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Berserk the anime series is going to be broadcasted at 11:00 pm starting 4/26/07 on animax!

hum...are there going to be any cut? I wonder...--Wxyrty 01:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

  Reply :
  hey what aru u talking about, I can't find berserk anime in animax!! and its already 
  may I wonder which animax did you mean? is it on japan? or a cable operator?

But it said so right here... http://groups.msn.com/BerserkManga/chapter280281.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=6697--Wxyrty 21:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Technicality

I was looking at the section on Götz von Berlichingen and I find it fascinating. However, the article explicitly mentions that it was his left hand that was blown off. The picture of the prosthetic is right handed. I don't believe the caption is correct, something needs specification or that picture is incorrect. --MrDopple 19:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese Anime Title Translation

Does anyone have any sources on the translation for the full anime title? Here, "kenpu denki" is translated as "The Strangeness of War." After checking in several kanji dictionaries and speaking with native Japanese speakers, all of them say the title is actually translated as "Romance of the Sword," or something very similar. Are there any sources for the original translation of "The Strangeness of War?" I'm curious :) -- Divineline 14:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Episode 83

I added a little section on the mysterious Episode 83 in the trivia section, as a "missing episode" seemed notable for inclusion. I've read the series through the tankobon for many years and only recently heard about this episode ... it took some time to track it down and read it too! I do not read the English translations of Berserk ... was it removed from them too? If published, it would appear in the 13th volume. CES 14:12, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

It is not in the English Volume in NA either. ryne11 21:04, 03 August 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.120.178 (talk)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Berserk1us.jpg

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[edit] Genre

Isn't Berserk more of a dark fantasy title than a low fantasy? --Mika1h (talk) 19:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. While sections of the story would fit into dark fantasy, other sections don't fit in to an enormous degree with that genre, given the large number of apostles and other supernatural things. Dark fantasy would be much more fitting.--SalamandraNinja (talk) 22:08, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] semi-monthy is wrong

"and new episodes are still being released in the semi-monthly (every second and fourth Friday of the month) magazine." Shouldn't this be bi-weekly? The young animal article says biweekly, and I'm not even sure what semi-monthly even means, sounds like every other month. Jopojelly (talk) 01:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

looked it up, semimonthly can be either interpreted as every 2 months or twice a month. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jopojelly (talk • contribs) 02:02, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Nope. Biweekly only means twice a week, semiweekly only means once every two weeks. It's not ambiguous, just commonly misunderstood. --erachima formerly tjstrf 01:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not that it matters but is Caska black(african)

Its sort of like the women from Bleach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Merc88 (talk • contribs) 05:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Uhg, not this argument again. Look, a dark skin tone doesn't automatically make someone "black." There are many alternatives that people prefer not to consider because they're desperate to find black characters in anime and manga.
In the case of Bleach's Yoruichi, she's more likely to be Southeast Asian, such as the Filipino or Malay peoples that are darker-skinned than the more homogenous and fair-skinned ethnic groups of China and Japan. Bleach features characters of ethnicity more varied than most anime or manga. There are a number of Caucasians among the Shinigami, Vizard, and Arrancar, as well as several characters who are more definitively Negroid.
If you wish to argue that particular point further, please take it here.
On the subject of Casca, however, the world of Berserk is greatly like that of medieval Europe; predominantly Caucasian with some contact with the Middle East. Both the Midland and Tudor nations, including the smaller ones around them, appear ethnically homogeneous. The only non-Caucasian ethnic group to appear in Berserk with any prominence or regularity are the Kushans, who are patterned after the historical Kushans of the Middle East and Central Asia. Taking this into account, along with our limited view of Casca's personal history, it is more likely that her heritage is mixed, with Kushan blood being the only available source for her dark coloration. Saying that she's black makes no sense when you consider that there are no black people in the world of Berserk.
Ultimately, all this is speculation. Until such time that Casca's ethnicity is officially revealed, no mention need be made of her race, other than perhaps making a small note of her unique appearance compared with the rest of Berserk's limited female cast. -- Son Goharotto (talk) 19:34, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Berserk PS2 JP.jpeg

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --10:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)