Talk:Berne

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Contents

[edit] Berne or Bern?

see Talk:Canton of Bern -User:Docu

[edit] National Reach Around Festival

Finally, the "National Reach Around Festival" has been removed from the festivals section. I noticed it over 2 years ago when consulting Wikipedia before a trip to Bern. Curious, I asked a friend who lived there if there was such as thing, and she had never heard of it. I checked the history page and found the National Reach Around Festival had been added years ago.

I considered removing the entry, but I didn't want to rob future travelers of the joy of trying to imagine the logistics of such a festival. Kudos to whoever listed it, and to whoever lives at 84.75.118.108 for finally removing it! Although I am a bit sad to see it go. I've been spreading the word about the Festival for 2 years hoping life would imitate art. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.75.162.188 (talk) 01:02, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Capital

On de:Diskussion:Schweiz is a discussion documented, which declares, that Bern is not the capital of Switzerland but the "Bundesstadt" which has a different meaning, but is in fact nearly the same. --193.134.254.115 08:52, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"Bundesstadt" translates to "Federal City". The Swiss "Federal (Supreme) Court" is located in Lausanne, Canton of Vaud. That seperation of the legislative city (Bern) from the judical supreme court city (Lausanne) is probably the reason that Bern is not considered the "capital" of Switzerland. However, most of the Federal offices are located in Bern. The problem with not recognizing Bern as the capital is probably related to Switzerland being originally a Confederation until 1848 with equally sovereign state members -- none supreme to the others in any way. Now it is functionally a Federation, but retaining the name "Confederation." --TGC55 12:54, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling consistency

Without wanting to appear pedantic, there are a few issues in this article with regar to spelling consistency: theatre, for instance, is used in both its US and UK variant. Judging from the use of movie theater for cinema and from Berne's English name rendered as rhotic [ˈbɝːn], I suspect the initial target was American English. I therefore suggest modifying the few British variants into their American counterparts. JREL 21:52, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List cleanup

The lists in this article must be cleaned up. Right now the article looks more like a tourist brochure than a encyclopedic article. /Grillo 13:06, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bern vs. Berne

Can/will someone please, explain, and/or add, to this article regarding these two spelling forms of the city? I also am conerned with the Bern Trial vs. the Bern Trial.

Thanks, Ludvikus 07:58, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Essentially, Bern is the locally used (High) German form, while Berne is the French and traditional English form. Our usage is inconsistent, and I'm thinking of setting up a RfC about it. Sandstein 21:14, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
OK, done, please see Talk:Canton_of_Berne#Spelling_request_for_comment. Sandstein 22:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Santo Domingo

Is there a reference for this addition. If there is, it should be kept, but the information added to the infobox. -- User:Docu

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was No consensus. User:Docu

Berne → Bern — Per Talk:Canton_of_Berne#Spelling_request_for_comment. To me, "Berne" looks kinda strange, I had to use google to see that it was actually in good use in English. It's always been "Bern" on any map I've owned, etc. There does seem to be a good balance between the two usages, but besides my personal loathing of silent "e"s, when there's balance between an archaic French-influenced English name and a native one fully integrated in modern English, the modern native name should be preferred. —Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Support as nom. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:11, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Bern is the German, Berne the French, spelling, of the city. Berne, like Nuremberg, is traditional in English; for those who care, local and official usage is divided. See #Usage in reliable English language sources above, and leave well enough alone. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:11, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I'd say Berne is more like Basle than Nuremburg, the last of which is made more difficult by a non-English character. Bern is English BTW, and happens unlike the archaic Berne with the silent "e" to correspond with native usage. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 19:46, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Close poll at this stage. Because local and official usage is divided, as noted above, we could benefit from a more thorough discussion at the RfC first. If and when we decide to move this, the name would have to be changed throughout Wikipedia and on Commons, a huge endeavour. Sandstein (talk) 09:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Pmanderson, Berne is the English name. 132.205.44.5 (talk) 19:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
    • This is incorrect; both are used in English, "Berne" less so than "Bern". Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 19:46, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. Bern is the common name. EJF (talk) 17:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I support this move - the Google result is persuasive, especially given that most of the results for Berne are for pages titled and predominantly using Bern. Also, Encarta, Britannica and Columbia encyclopaedias all use Bern for the article title. I am convinced Bern is now the predominant English language usage. Knepflerle (talk) 15:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Berne is the English name. Google hits prove nothing in this close spelling difference (there are millions of spelling errors picked up by Google - do they all have credibility?) So "Bern" might be considered a predominant name in English - but that doesn't mean that it is correct. Just because a lot of people say the same thing, it does not mean that it is the right thing (see Wikiality). One simple source that nobody has mentioned so far is the website of the city itself: www.bern.ch - now if you go to the English-language section it says that the name of the city in English is Berne, never Bern. Now, if anyone should know the name of the city in English, then it should be the city itself. As for Basel, the English section of www.basel.ch uses Basel and not Basle, so in that case we can say that there is an archaic version no longer used, but not Berne. Leave well enough alone- 52 Pickup (deal) 19:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:
  • Comment People above are saying Bern isn't used in English; this is pure nonsense. If anything, it's Berne that isn't used. It's plain archaic, and honestly, I've rarely encountered it ... seems a bit like Basle or even Aix-la-Chapelle. Anyways the US government seems to be under the impression Bern is English, as do the BBC, CNN, etc. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 19:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Just to add, googling with the query: "bern switzerland -site:wikipedia.org", we get:
      • So Bern gets 10 times the hits as Berne and people are saying "Bern" is not English. Wonders indeed will never cease. WP:UE does not mean employ archaic terms for the sake of English difference. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 20:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Berne/Bern/Berna

At Talk:Canton_of_Berne#Spelling_request_for_comment, there is an extended discussion on the topic. Please contribute-- User:Docu

That discussion gives the impression of being dead. As you'll see from my nom, I'd already seen it. Besides the fact that native names for modern cities are always preferable (for me) per se, the evidence I've seen shows conclusively this city is predominantly called Bern. Besides that, it's wrong to give the impression that the city is French when its actually, like most of Switzerland, (Swiss) German. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 12:27, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree. We should reopen the discussion. --DerRichter (talk) 21:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)