Talk:Berengar I of Italy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

WikiProject Biography     (Rated B-Class) This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. Biography Portal B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ] This article is supported by the Royalty and nobility work group. WikiProject Germany      (Rated Start-Class) Germany Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no WikiProject Middle Ages (Rated B-Class) Middle Ages Portal Berengar I of Italy is part of WikiProject Middle Ages, a project for the community of Wikipedians who are interested in the Middle Ages. For more information, see the project page and the newest articles. B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale. Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need. WikiProject Middle Ages To do:

[edit] Another Berengar

Berengar links to this page, while there is another Berengar, Berengar of Ivrea, also King of Italy. Should be a disambiguation?--J heisenberg 15:07, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree, and have made it so. --Jfruh 03:34, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move

I propose that this page be moved to Berengar I of Italy or Berengar, Holy Roman Emperor. I present the following reasons in point form:

• The Manual of Style indicates that monarch should be styled in the form "Name + Ordinal + of + Kingdom". Berengar's kingdom was Italy and he was the first Berengar (Berengar of Ivrea was the second). He was Emperor, but the use of the term Holy Roman Emperor is definitely anachornistic, nevertheless it is applied to Otto I, but not the Carolingians, so it's up for debate.
• Consistency: some Italian kings seem to be left under their common names, while some appear properly as per the MoS. I will propose these moves on all pertinent pages for medieval Italian kings (see Talk:Hugh of Arles and Talk:Berengar of Ivrea).
• A figure should be titled by his most important title in life and I think Berengar would like to be remembered as the Emperor, or at least king of Italy, and not the mere Furlan margrave.
• The German Wiki uses the form of "Berengar I".

Srnec 04:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Emperor

Ahm, the "Holy Roman Emperor" is not something that undisputedly was in existence at the time. Usually we count only Otto I and onwards under that precise title. Charlemagne for example has been left to nicknamed variant due to doubts whether HRE is yet correct. Marrtel 12:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

But Berengar was undisputedly emperor. The question of applying "Holy Roman" retrospectively is rather minor, no? Some scholars do, others don't. There is continuity between Charlemagne's empire and the thing from which Francis II abdicated in 1806. I think the "fact check" notice ought to be removed so as not to give the false impression that he wasn't emperor. I have changed it to say "Emperor of the West," but that's as retrospective as HRE. Srnec 19:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)