User talk:Benne

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Contents 1 Syriacs 2 Sébastien de Courtois 2.1 Reply 3 Re 4 Replaced loanwords 5 The Syro-Aramaic Reading Of The Qur'an 6 Sun Myung Moon 7 Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Frisians Proposal WikiProject Frisians 8 Assyrians 9 Aramaean people 10 Merkez Jupa/Centar Župa 11 Greetings 12 About Syriacs? 13 Syriac words 14 Hello? 15 You're not helping nor is Elias... 16 Hello there 17 WikiProject Frisians 18 EliasAlucard 19 Cooperation board 20 East/West Syriacs articles 21 Akbulut

[edit] Syriacs

Hey Benne. You will notice, however, that Aramaeans#Modern is completely unsourced, and thus the connection cannot be verified. Perhaps you could add references to that section? Thanks for the link to the Syriac Universal Alliance by the way. That is one source that could possibly be used. I was actually looking for more academic ones however. Khoikhoi 04:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

(I reposted this post from the "Assyrian people" discussion page - sorry, I wasn't sure if you would check it anytime soon) Benne, I know where you stand on this whole identity issue, but please be mindful to the possibility that Ashuraya and Suryaya are synonymous terms. I can direct you to several scholarly sources if you wish. Here's a report by AINA (Assyrian International News Agency) - which I DON'T trust completely because AINA is often biased - but they make reference to a very important archeological find in Turkey, published in the Journal of Near Eastern Studies. http://www.aina.org/ata/20070218144107.htm

Again, do not pay so much attention to the opinions in the article, because I'm sure you will not agree with them right away (I myself found it to be a little bit biased, but with a good cause). I think I have a copy of the journal article lying around somewhere, so if you like I can send you a copy. Basically, they found a bilingual inscription (in Luwian, an ancient Anatolian language, and Phoenician) in which an Anatolian king makes reference to the Assyrians as "Sur" in the Luwian language, and "Assur" in Phoenician. Check it out and let me know what you think, ahono.Šarukinu 14:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sébastien de Courtois

Thanks for the correction; I wasn't the one who originally added the sources, I just noticed that they were there. What about the other source? (David Gaunt) Khoikhoi 06:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It is your opinion that Encyclopaedia of the Orient is not reliable. It is not an "Assyrianist properganda" because its not an Assyrian website. Show me a handful of mods that believe the info from this website should not be used as sources in wikipedia, then come to an conclusion that it is not a neutral source. Chaldean 15:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Show me where does wikipedia says Encyclopaedia of the Orient should not be used as a reliable source. Chaldean 15:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Well I and the rest of the Assyrian nation consider your work here the upmost slander and disrespect to our community. Correct your behavior, please. Chaldean 15:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

but they may be used so long as the encyclopedia is a high quality one. Chaldean 15:30, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The author promoted the book as "the last Assyrians" in various Assyrian editorials and magazines. The book might have two versions, I dont know. Benne, I will get back to you after I get out of class. I will continue adding refs to Assyrian people page. Chaldean 15:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Well, according to WP:V, it's our job to say what the sources say. So, if you have Sébastien de Courtois' book, you are more than welcome to add information from it. As for Assyrian people, you can add {{verify source}} to some of the references if you want. However, I consider the Encyclopaedia of the Orient to be a reliable source. It's not a Wikipedia mirror, although many articles use it in Wikipedia (such as Elazığ and Artvin Province). Is this your main concern at the moment? If it is, I'm sure there are tons of other sources out there that can give the same information. Try leaving some comments on the talk page. Khoikhoi 18:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I am the last person to care if you believe it or not. I observed this in a couple Google/Gmail groups. I dont know how much thruthiness their is to it, but I thought you should know about it. Chaldean 06:27, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I guess you're right about the Encyclopaedia of the Orient. Perhaps better sources can be found (via Google Scholar or some place else). Khoikhoi 08:14, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Good idea (even thou the Assyrians in Iraq is a very bad article right now.) Chaldean 16:02, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Akhh, I just remembered. [[1]] - I nominated it yesterday for a did you know. Dont know what to do now. Chaldean 16:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re

No worries. When I first saw that type of bot-correction I had thought of the same thing, but later I noticed that the wikicode is designed to accomodate it. The bot I am using is utilizing a wiki-designed code cleanup and spellcheck which is updated regularly by the wikicode designers, so I suppose that's how they want it :) Cheers! Baristarim 07:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Replaced loanwords

Hi. I've made some corrections & left a few comments at Talk:List of replaced loanwords in Turkish. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:33, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi benne

Hope you are good. I have set up a wiki se following link:

http://www.mardaites.com/sdi/index.php?title=Main_Page

please visit it if you are interested.

It is a new site and not much information yet. And only invited authors can write articles in it so it will have good quality.

best regards Suryoyo // Michael email: suryoyo@kth.se

[edit] The Syro-Aramaic Reading Of The Qur'an

Hi. The thing I wrote on "The Syro-Aramaic Reading Of The Qur'an" was referenced, first with the quote from a known translation of the Qur'an, and second Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon. What more do I need to do? Abdassamad 18:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sun Myung Moon

Hi Benne. You are correct that the "Reverend" before his name is an honorary title used by members of his church. The same could be said about the titles used by almost any organization. I'm not sure what the standard for that here is on WP. I had understood that the title should be used in the first mention of the person's name and then just the family name. I don't consider it such a big thing. He really doesn't need the title. Wishing you well. Steve Dufour 16:22, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Frisians Proposal WikiProject Frisians

I'd be honoured to participate in the project, Benne! And I think I also know some more users who might be also interested in joining. BTW; thanks for helping my and the Ygo Youkes Galama-article; you are right and it doesn't need deletion, just a lot of improving! -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 10:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assyrians

[2] [3] The truth hurts, doesn't it? :) Face it, the Syriacs are simply Assyrians. No need to start a fuss about this like you always do. — EliasAlucard|Talk 10:46 02 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

per WP:ENC, the WP:TRUTH should not only not hurt, it should be irrelevant. We are looking for notable opinions, not "truth". I wish you could stop this habit of quoting huge portions of text in your footnotes Elias: it's needlessly tiresome, not to mention copyright concerns. Don't quote excessively, no matter whether it's the article body or a footnote. You (Elias) obviously feel too strongly about this topic, and should let neutral editors do the job. dab (𒁳) 14:13, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Benne, you haven't begun on a unification page yet. Still waiting khon. Chaldean 13:13, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aramaean people

Shlama Benne, Yes we could just pick out some few stuff to History headline or Orgin headline. but we should not just add a few setence about the present day Aramaens wich include alot of reliigous divided people. like the "Assyrians" they have a assyrian people and acient assyrians. we could do the same just place (Acient) within the Aramaeans article. thanks. Nochi 13:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merkez Jupa/Centar Župa

Why you moving article to Turkish name? Official language of the country is Macedonian and names of all other municipalities in all countries are given in official language. Why you think that this one should be exception? 81.18.57.3 19:09, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is in Turkish but only in addition to Macedonian. In Macedonia, languages of minorities that make up more than 20% of population of municipalities are also official in that municipality, but only in addition to Macedonian, which still remain the main official language in every municipality. Please move article names back to their original title. 81.18.57.3 20:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greetings

Shlama, I see that u speak aramaic. I am not hre to argue anything, I have only left this message to say hi and just get to know you. I am a lover of knowledge and am very interested in what ethnicity you are. From the looks of it, some Assyrian wikipedians believe you are an Assyrian, but it appears that you relate with Aramaic.

So, what do u consider urself to be? I ma very curious, because I like to know about peoples who have lived to this day. Also, what religion, culture, background etc. I am an Assyrian Catholic of Iraqi background.

Nice to talk to you,

Regards,

Tourskin 06:05, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright fine. I do not discriminate between people for their religion or culture, but ofcourse, it is pleasing to be able to relate to someone of a similar background. Goodbye then!Tourskin 17:43, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About Syriacs?

Hi Benne,

• I was always curious aboout the Mesoptamians ancient history. I really want to know about the Syriacs without the confusion?
• Do you simply believe in what is in the website Aramnahrin.org?

Well, a lot of information presented on the website sounds very convincing. It proves that throughout the history of the Syriacs, the people have identified themselves with the ancient Aramaeans.

• Are the Greeks the first people to refer to Assyria as Syria? (The Semites of the south refered to it as the north) (Yeman and Sham are the modern Arab terms for South and North). Is Syria a Greek name?

I am not sure they referred to Assyria as Syria. I believe the two names are different from one another. See e.g. Assyria (Roman province) vs. Syria (Roman province)..--Benne 20:50, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok so the Romans distinguished Syria from Assyria?

Did the Greeks confuse the Romans? by the wetsern part of the former Assyrian empire Syria?

Are the modern Arameans (I read about in Europe) Christians or Muslims (the guys name is muslim?) or simply secular?--Skatewalk 18:10, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Syriac words

I am not sure I understand your question. I believe Arabic is heavily influenced by Syriac Aramaic; words like الله Allāh (ܐܠܗܐ Alāhā), قرآن Qur’ān (ܩܪܝܢܐ qeryānā), and صوم ṣawm (ܨܘܡܐ ṣawmā), are Syriac in origin.--Benne 20:50, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

• The words are also identical to North Arabic (Aramiac usually adds an A) as many localities in the South stops with (sikoonn) for example :

Kadash(South Arabian), Kadasha (Syriac), Kuds(Arabic)

Marad (South Arabian), Marada (Syriac), Mutamaridin (Arabic)

Kitab (South Arabian), Kitaba (Syriac), Kitab (Arabic)

and words that changed the use of it:

Darom in south Arabian meant (Heel) or (Bottom)

Darom in Hebrew means (South)

Daroma in Syriac means (South)?

Darom still used in some colliqual Arabic dialects, but not in Standard.

This is not surprising to me, sense Syriac is closely related to the Western and SouthWestern Semitic languages.

Amorite itself is very similar to North Arabian. However, I will not rule out the prophet being influenced by the Syriac dialects from his travel in Syria. (at that time, the difference between Hijazi and Syriac was not as distant as now). I read the Quran, and its divided into Meccan and Medina verses, I always felt the Meccan verses more influenced by Northern Arabian and the Medina by South Arabian (maybe because the Medina Muslims spoke South Arabian)--Skatewalk 17:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you have any source that those words are Syriac in origin? They're more likely to be cognates of El. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 04:32, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hello?

Can you please answr my question?!

• Are the NON (Arab or Phoenician) portion of the Maronites considered Assyrians? Elias links both of them to Syriac (the church language), I don't want to argue with him on something he might be right about. Can you show me links besides the (Aramnahrin) because that website claims that Assyrians are also Arameans?--Skatewalk 05:27, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I am not very familiar with the Maronites, but I don't believe they are Assyrians, neither do I believe they are Arabs. The Maronites do form part of Syriac Christianity, though. Syriac is still used as a liturgical language. You might want to be interested in the Urhoy website. --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 09:09, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

• Hi Benne,

Syriac is the liturgical for Maronites (a religion). The mjority of the Maronites are Syrians? (Siryani in Arabi)? However some are ethnic Arabs who identify as Arabs for example (Al-Mashrouki tribe) many Maronites families come from them. and some claim lineage to the Ghassanids, also many modern Lebanese (regardless of religion) simply claim a Phoenician ethnicity. --Skatewalk 17:32, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You're not helping nor is Elias...

Listen, Aramaean, Assyrian, Syriac, Chaldean are all accepted names [not by all of course] for the SAME PEOPLE. The fact of the matter is that we refer to ourselves as "Sourayeh/Souroyeh" in Neo-Syriac/Aramaic which would be translated as "Syrian" and historically was but due to the modern "Arab" state of Syria; Syriac and Assyrian are used in place. Syria and Assyria have common origination according to documented history and professors such as Frye, Nelson. Syria historically refers to the western territories of the Assyrian empire aka Aram and Canaan which would equate to modern day states of Israel, Lebanon, and Syria where if we were to equate modern Assyria with a nation it would be "Iraqi-Kurdistan" where most Iraqi Chaldeans and Assyrians originate from the Nineveh plains. None of these terms are incorrect however Syrian would be used today if not for the nation of "Arab" Syria. The fact is in Syriac we don't say Kaldaya, Aramaya, or Aturaya, maybe in religious contexts or political ones people may say it but everyone regardless of village says Sourayeh which means Syrian and it is used similarly to Armenian or Greek, which may also imply Christian and where Kurd, Turk, or Arab would imply Muslim. Assyrian ancestory isn't a pipe-dream nor is Aramean though less slightly is Chaldean though still not impossible. Towards the latter days of the Assyrian empire Arameans had pretty much Aramaicized much of the near east and with that also become systemized by Assyrian rule hence becoming nationlized in a sense as Assyrians. Assyria was more of a nationality than an ethnicity composed of many different people that had been conquered by the armies of the Assyrian empire. Think of it as an ancient form of America. There are Americans of every origin which I'm not claiming was the case for Assyira but someowhat similar to it. Sharru Kinnu III 17:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Sharru, we are descendants of many different ethnic groups, such as Assyrians, Aramaeans, Amorites, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Sumerians, Elamites, Phoenicians and also some Jews. But most of all, Assyrians. We are not racially pure in that sense, but we are more or less Assyrians. How can you say I'm not helping? — EliasAlucard|Talk 20:01 17 Oct, 2007 (UTC)

I mean the bickering going on between you two isn't helping. Sharru Kinnu III 12:49, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I mean with your constant bickering with one another. Sharru Kinnu III 12:48, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hello there

Hey there Benne! I hope you're doing fine. I just wanted to tell that even though things always have not been clear between us I would like to thank you about your participation within the Syriac (Assyrian/Aramean/Chaldean) people. --Yohanun 22:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)ܦܘܫ ܒܫܠܡܠܐ

Tawdi lokh ahuno, ono-ste towo-no. The problem with our people is that the religion comes before the nationalism, we need to realise that we need a unity among us before we can get through the religious problems. We need unity really desperetaly, 50% of our population in Iraq has fled, we are almost extinct in Turkey and Iran. I am very sad for my people since what I and other see is that the Kurds have taken over our ancient cities and villages, and they are claiming it has been theirs since ancient times. Aloho howe am kul suroyo w mshihoyo--Yohanun 22:37, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Benne doesn't want us to have unity, he doesn't want us to be united, he doesn't like Assyrian nationalism. He would rather see us continue to fight each other, which is why he's perpetuating these "Aramaean" lies, while our people are dying in Iraq. Great job Benne, keep that up. Which reminds me, those Aramaean lies, I just found this. Interesting, isn't it, Benne? The Turks and Arabs, as I've suspected for a long time now, are behind this false Aramaean identity. Typical divide and rule methods. — EliasAlucard (talk · contribs) 13:00 04 Nov, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Frisians

Hi, you are invited to join in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Friesland. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] EliasAlucard

I believe it may be of interest that the user user:EliasAlucard has been pemanently blocked from swedish wikipedia, this because of what he has written in syriac/assyrian artikles and discussions [[4]]. And they came to the conclusion that this user could never write NPOV material related to these subjects. They also said the only reason hes editing this articles in wikipedia is in propaganda purposes. In english wiki he wrote this in a discussion (with you it seems) [[5]] that itself hes worth a lifelong ban, regardless him saying he was not serious. Pardon my bad english, but english isn't my best subject, i thought this little information could be of interest for you, that this user is not in any ways objective. The TriZ (talk) 01:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Good boy TriZ. Eliminate the opposition so that you yourself (who happens to be ten times less of an NPOV editor than I am) can spread your religious propaganda peacefully. I can see you're working hard to get me banned. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 05:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I never even said i am religous, but you have said many things about your assyrian propaganda. Including that you will use people who refrain themselfs as arameans as slaves and that you want the aramean people and language to be destroyed and forgotten, and much more than that. You clearly have an assyrian agenda and your using wikipedia to spread your propaganda. I would easily prove this, if it was in swedish, lucky for you my knowledge in the english language isn't even close to my swedish. The TriZ (talk) 16:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cooperation board

I invite you to Wikipedia:Assyrian-Syriac wikipedia cooperation board Chaldean (talk) 03:56, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Benne, as you see for yourself, we cannot work with Dab. He first of all is not even an expert on the situation like a person who lives among Syriacs (like you.) We need to get Gareth back, but he will not listen to me. PLEASE, try to convince him to come back to the project. He is the only mod that is knowledable about the subject. Chaldean (talk) 01:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] East/West Syriacs articles

Benne, I have moved them because they lacked sources. They have been tagged for ages. They clearly talked about the Jacobite/Nestorian groups. You have any sources establishing any other groups, I suggest you create articles on them separately. We cannot keep articles based on WP:SYN and selected soundbites from random sources indefinitely just because some ethnic patriots "disagree". It works the other way round: provide sources, and then create sub-articles. I appreciate you are willing to actually make coherent statements (as opposed to Chaldean, who prefers to behave like ELIZA). You will still need to recognize that reliable sources are a non-negotiable prerequisite here. I appreciate your inside knowledge, too, which will allow you to sort out confusing situations quickly, but at the end of the day, it will not replace actual sources. dab (𒁳) 14:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

wth Benne, I have already moved the page, and now have this VegardNorman character ranting at me for my pains. I really don't care what the article is called as long as its scope is made clear. dab (𒁳) 16:28, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Akbulut

Don't delete reliable source just because you don't like them. Chaldean (talk) 20:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Your rant was just that - a rant. Know that their are Syriacs whom still consider themselves Assyrian. And in this case, his probably one of them, otherwise, we would not have been refered to as an Assyrian. I think you need to take it to Wikipedia and challange that the AP is not considered reliable. Chaldean (talk) 21:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

If you want to bring in a 3rd opinion, then please be my guest. But you don't have a right to remove sources. Chaldean (talk) 21:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

And another thing, Assyrian people is a page of all Syriac-speaking middle easterners, of whom are known as Syriani in the Turkish language. Nothing has changed since your absense. Chaldean (talk) 22:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)