Talk:Benvenuto Cellini

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Parts of the article read like someone's stilted attempts to argue that Cellini was homosexual. Phrases like "His writings are more highly descriptive of the men in his life than of the women" presented as "proof" are plain apologetics and completely ignore the context of Cellini's life and Renaissance attitudes towards women. Can it be either cleaned out, or given a better treatment? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.104.108 (talk) 09:08, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


I am concerned about the paragraph that refers to definite falsehoods in his "life". Visions, and religious experiences cannot reasonably be dismissed outright and finally like that. Magic is practiced by many, and who are we to say that he did not have the experience he relates to have occurred at the coloseum? The privations he experienced in prison may well have produced what some would call hallucinations and others, religious experience. Regarding the Halo he claimed to posess, which, by the way, he pointed out, only sensitive people could see- this could have been his aura. Who are we to say that he was not poisoned? There may be falsehoods in his "Life". But to select a certain category of experiences, and suggest that they are clearly false, apparently on the basis that they challenge our own expectations and personal knowledge of reality is not good enough for an encycloedia. Guys, am I being reasonable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.103.10.67 (talk) 16:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain.

I deleted the following, as it even says that's it's taken from another source:

For what it's worth, here's a snippet from the introduction to Cellini's autobiography, written by the translator: John Addington Symonds (1840-1893) - I recommend you read the entire transcript (link below)

The period covered by the autobiography is from Cellini's birth in 1500 to 1562; the scene is mainly in Italy and France. Of the great events of the time, the time of the Reformation and the Counter-Reformation, of the strife of Pope and Emperor and King, we get only glimpses. The leaders in these events appear in the foreground of the picture only when they come into personal relations with the hero; and then not mainly as statesmen or warriors, but as connoisseurs and patrons of art. Such an event as the Sack of Rome is described because Benvenuto himself fought in it.

Much more complete is the view he gives of the artistic life of the time. It was the age of Michelangelo, and in the throng of great artists which then filled the Italian cities, Cellini was no inconsiderable figure. Michelangelo himself he knew and adored. Nowhere can we gain a better idea than in this book of the passionate enthusiasm for the creation of beauty which has bestowed upon the Italy of the Renaissance its greatest glory.

Very vivid, too, is the impression we receive of the social life of the sixteenth century; of its violence and licentiousness, of its zeal for fine craftsmanship, of its abounding vitality, its versatility and its idealism. For Cellini himself is an epitome of that century. This man who tells here the story of his life was a murderer and a braggart, insolent, sensual, inordinately proud and passionate; but he was also a worker in gold and silver, rejoicing in delicate chasing and subtle modelling of precious surfaces; a sculptor and a musician; and, as all who read his book must testify, a great master of narrative. Keen as was Benvenuto's interest in himself, and much as he loved to dwell on the splendor of his exploits and achievements, he had little idea that centuries after his death he would live again, less by his "Perseus" and his goldsmith's work than by the book which he dictated casually to a lad of fourteen, while he went about his work.

The autobiography was composed between 1558 and 1566, but it brings the record down only to 1562. The remainder of Cellini's life seems to have been somewhat more peaceful. In 1565 he married Piera de Salvadore Parigi, a servant who had nursed him when he was sick; and in the care of his children, as earlier of his sister and nieces, he showed more tenderness than might have been expected from a man of his boisterous nature. He died at Florence, May 13, 1571, and was buried in The Church of the Annunziata in that city.

Contents

[edit] External Link

-- Zoe

Symonds, as it says, died in 1893, and the book to which this is an introduction has been made available as a Project Gutenberg e-text. I think copyright is probably not an issue here... —Paul A 07:49, 10 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Would it be perhaps worthwile to discuss the recent theft of Cellini's "Saltcellar" from an Austrian museum? Here's a really interesting article from MSN's Slate about the incident: http://slate.msn.com/id/2083452/

[edit] Saltcellar theft

"In addition to the bronze statue of Perseus and the medallions already referred to, the works of art in existence today executed by him are the celebrated gold, enamel and ivory salt-cellar made for Francis I at Vienna [this object, of a value conservatively estimated at US$ 58,000,000, was stolen from the Kunsthistorisches Museum on May 11, 2004]"... my sources indicate the theft took place on May 13, 2003, and the theft was from Vienna's Art History Museum. The alarms were set off but were regarded as false when the thieves climbed scaffolding and smashed windows to enter. The theft was discovered at 8:20 am. Can the date of the theft and the place where it happened be looked into? I'll add the other non-disputed details to the article. Coolgamer 22:46, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Coolgamer, Let me guess. Mental Floss - Condensed knowledge. many of the sentences are word for word from page 3. They need to be edited to prevent a copyright violation. wcsdep2313

[edit] Perseus image

I always thought the picture of Cellini's Perseus that accompanied this article was pretty crappy. Not only was it small, dark and colourless but it showed the statue in its worst ever condition before its much-needed restoration.

So I was delighted to find a a much better picture on Wikipedia Netherlands, because it meant it was already licensed for use. And here it is. (And I'm not ashamed to admit it, but now he's had a wash and brush-up the guy is hot!)

Lee M 20:20, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

The Perseus picture has now been replaced by one that's bigger, but darker and slightly unsharp. Lee M 12:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Also added Salt Cellar image from Swedish Wikipedia because it was just too good to pass up, and in the public domain too. Lee M 12:39, 9 November 2005 (UTC)


The "Cellini Salt" referred to, which was stolen a while back, has just been recovered.

Sunday Times http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2004591,00.html

Jackiespeel 21:16, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sodomitaccio!

His account of Bandinelli's insult: "<<...voltomisi con quel suo brutissimo visaccio, a un tratto mi disse : -Oh sta cheto, sodomitaccio! Il duca a quella parola serrò la ciglia malamente in verso di lui e, gli altri serrato le bocche ed aggrottato gli occhi in verso di lui, io, che mi senti' così scelleratamente offendere, sforzato dal furore, ed a un tratto, corsi al rimedio, e dissi : -O pazzo, tu esci dei termini; ma Iddio 'l volessi che io sapessi fare une così nobile arte, perché e' si legge ch'e' l'usò Giove con Ganimede in paradiso, e qui in terra e' la usano i maggiori imperatori ed i più gran re del mondo>>. Haiduc 00:26, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Cellini has always been know as a lecher, however I find it to be quite terrible that he should be not on the "historical pederastic couples". How can anyone say the great lover of boys Benvenuto Cellini was a heterosexual? --Margrave1206 22:48, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] original research

If no one can find a critic of any sort to back it up, the part about his works pointing toward homosexuality should be deleted. To someone else, it could signify the sexist views of the age, etc. Bkwrmgrl1 (talk) 18:40, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, for instance, our great censuror can read Homosexuality and Civilization by Crompton. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.198.75.99 (talk) 10:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] proposed new external link

I'd like to add a link like:

to the 'External Links'section. This links to his autobiography that you can download to read on a cell phone. I have read quite a few from this site and got a lot of value out being able to read the PD texts away from the PC - I found Cellini's autobiography particularly entertaining and interesting.

The text is Public Domain in the US, just like Project Gutenberg, it is packaged with the reader and available under a creative commons licence (share if (attribution, non-commercial, no derivative) ). The site is non-commercial without registration, subscription, or advertising. The text is packaged together with the reader as a java program that runs on cell phones, this is a way for people to access the authors work that adds to the range in the existing external links (hopefully translating to more reading going on).

I checked WP:EL and the link seems appropriate:

  • What should be linked: '...should link to a site hosting a copy of the work if none of the "Links normally to be avoided" criteria apply.'
  • Links normally to be avoided: it seems only #8 might apply; 'Direct links to documents that require external applications (such as Flash or Java) to view the relevant content...'. The site lets you download java programs that only run on a J2ME environment, this means most/all current cell phones. So although they are limited to being read on a phone they do add an access method to all the others in the existing External Links, in the same way that LibriVox adds a format but requires an mp3 player.

Filomath 13:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)