Talk:Bentō

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[edit] Taiwan

I think it should be mentioned that Taiwan has adopted ( from japanese colonial times ) the bento, 便當 in Chinese.

it is mentioned in the article. And please sign your posts Wenzi 21:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Obentos"

I have suggested the content currently found in Obentos be moved here. It appears that the original contributer of the "Obentos" article did not realize the correct spelling of the word, as the "o" is just a honorific, and the Japanese do not add a letter "s" to denote plurality. -- 63.226.38.196 04:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with merging the content, not based on Japanese grammar (of which I know -0-), but based on that it's just a quote from an academic paper. Maybe add the quote to Bento and turn Obentos into a redirect to Bento. Heck, if no one else does this soon (and if no one objects soon), I'll do it myself. Archivizt 01:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Please, go right ahead. Thanks, -- Argon233 T C U @  ∠  23:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I completely agree as well. Perhaps, though, make a subsection of the bento that points out the currently so-called "obento" and describes it there.

I disagree. The practice of giving obento to Japanese nursury-school childrien, and the construction of the obento, bento given to school children, is very specific. The article on obento should be expanded, however. The obento is a device recommended by the Japanese Ministry of Education as a way to not only ease the childs enculturation into cooperative Japanese society, but its preparation by the mother is also a way to judge how her parenting persribes to encultured gender norms. It is though in Japanese society that the mothers role is just as important as the school child's in his/her education. To the state it is a sign as to how far the child is likely to go in their education career. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.146.169.251 (talk • contribs) 2006-04-27 05:11:40.

To clarify this subject a little, the word 'bento' and 'obento' in Japanese refers to exactly same object. The "o" is just a honorific prefix used in polite speech. Although the concept is a little different, you might consider the difference between 'bento' and 'obento' to be similar the way there are alternate spellings of the same word in English. Likewise the Japanese language does not add a letter "s" at the end of words to denote plurality of objects, as we commonly do in English.
In the end the word "obentos" is a improper Anglicization of a basic Japanese word, and obento and bento are the same thing. There is no need for seperate articles for "alternate spelling" of the same word, so they should be merged. -- Argon233 T C @   07:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I think they should not be merged as they are completly differemt. (the bento artical refers to what bento is and the obentos articaltalks about a way to perpare bento.) 67.5.115.38 17:50, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I've performed the merge; I do know enough Japanese to know how o- is used. (Mmmm, ōbentō.) Although I've left out such shiny details as "Children are expected to eat these meals in their entirity [sic]; this is a way to teach them about Japanese culture and discipline." (I really want to see that paper; I have a hard time taking anything with a name like "The Lunchbox as Ideological State Apparatus" seriously.)  –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 02:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Converting Yen

STOP trying to convert Yen to US Dollars by simply dividing the number by 100 (e.g. "$10 bento"). This is totally inaccurate. Either accurately convert the rate, changing the page daily or weekly to reflect the always-changing conversion rate, or leave the amount in Yen.

I wouldn't mind seeing a conversion, although it wouldn't have to be exact. Something like "1000 yen (10$ as of MM/DD/YY)" or something similar. Although there are easy sites to convert, it's a pain to have to go to them just to find that out. --StarChaser Tyger 07:32, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually, to clarify, what I believe the poster above you was referring to wasn't just that the conversion rate changes everyday therefore making one day's conversion rate not "exact" the next day, but also the common misconception (based either on a skewed but apparently surprisingly common misunderstanding of currency conversion, or maybe just the use of decimals in US currency) that the yen is basically equivalent to one cent in US currency. It's come close to that, especially in the 1990's, when you had occasional average monthly exchange rates of for instance, 102.08 yen per US dollar (December 1999), or in mid-late 1995, when it actually hit 98.18 and then 101.90 as monthly averages for September and October; but the truth is, it's all over the place, and it increasingly rarely comes so conveniently close as that. In fact, even when the yen had a "fixed value" back after WWII (up until the early 1970's), it was 360 yen per dollar, more like 3.6 cents, in other words, than one cent; even back in June, 2007, the closest to today's date that the Japanese yen article actually covers for conversion rates, the average exchange rate was 122.67 yen per US dollar - even if we round up or down to one decimal, that puts us at 1.2 or 1.3 cents per yen, not just one; and if you look at the chart, this year had a mostly steady upward climb heading up to June, too. No matter how you slice it, the chances of that bento costing exactly US$10 with conversion are really, really low, given how much the yen swings on a daily or even monthly basis. Anybody who had checked either a converter or the Japanese yen article (which, conveniently enough, actually links to converters itself) before adding the "converted" value would known this; I found it all out in a matter of minutes. So either someone's rounding (which is a bad practice for an encyclopedia, if you're not going to note that it's rounded and when you got your "rounded" figure), or they're just making it up pretty much out of thin air or a bad misunderstanding of how international currency conversion works and possibly additional misunderstanding of the yen's conversion history in regards to the US dollar.
I've actually seen people try to "convert" yen to USD this "one-yen-to-a-cent" way once in a while before myself, and I'm somewhat baffled as to why, other than presumably it just being easier than actual currency conversion, which takes actually plugging the figures into a converter (available in countless places online for free, and easily found through Google or any other decent search engine, even found through our own article on the currency). Really, given how much it changes month to month, it makes much more sense to just list what the original cost at the time, and link to the Japanese yen article. Runa27 21:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shokado Bento

I think this should definitely be merged with the main Bento article, unless someone has a whole lot more to say about it. It's really interesting, and something I'd want to know just reading about bento in general. Archivizt 01:17, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll second you on this suggestion - I like your idea. It seems you now have two merge tasks on your "plate". :-) -- Argon233 T C U @  ∠  23:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

It strikes me as something that could possiblely use its own page, but for the time being certainly should be merged. Hopefully in the future there will be enough information to unmerge it though.--SeizureDog 23:22, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

It should be merged becase there is only one line of text in Shokado Bento 67.5.115.38 17:48, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Considering that fact, the article should even be deleted. The ThinkPad detail can be included in a Trivia section. Candamir 21:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I think this should be merged as when I think about Bento, I think not only about the food in a bento box, but the box itself. These are not two separate topics but two parts of the same topic.

Agreed with comment above. I think of the actual bento lunchboxes as much as the meals prepared for them. Alex H. 21:10, August 7 2006

I've gone ahead and merged them. I'm still new around, so I'm not totally sure I redirected everything right. If someone could check that would make me a happy panda. --SidiLemine 13:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ThinkPad?

I find the claim that the "traditional black-lacquered Japanese bento box inspired IBM's ThinkPad design" completely ludicrous and unbelievable. Unless someone can come up with some concrete support for this (e.g. an IBM spokesman saying as much), it should be deleted. Rocinante9x 20:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,55714,00.html
Will this work? It's an article at Wired.com that states that David Hill, director of design for IBM's personal computer division, said that the ThinkPad was inspired by the bento box. I think the director of design for IBM's personal computer division makes a pretty good spokesperson.
This link may also be helpful:
http://www.lenovoblogs.com/design/design-theory/2006/10/17/the-bento-box/ (Lenovo is the company that has been producing the ThinkPad since 2005, I believe)
Also, check the Wikipedia article about the ThinkPad. It makes the same claim about the bento box being the inspiration for the ThinkPad and includes... get this... a source! Couldn't that source be incorporated here as well?
Um, O.k.... Wouldn't it have been better to put that info into the article, rather than roasting me with it here? Rocinante9x 13:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Dude, calm down. It's only some guy on Wikipedia, and he found sources like you asked - both of which he may or may not actually, in fact, be sure could be added (I'm not sure about the company blog myself, but Wired.com is generally considered a reliable source on this kind of thing, last I checked). Please WP:Assume good faith instead of bothering to snipe back, it's better for your blood pressure and makes you look like a very cool person, I guarantee it. ;) Runa27 21:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Finding sources does not constitute "Roasting" someone. I thought his reply was very subdued considering how emotionally charged your post was. "completely ludicrous and unbelievable" are pretty strong words for you to have chosen for such a silly matter.64.230.43.189 (talk) 01:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Though the information about the IBM Thinkpad might be correct, it should be put in a trivia section rather than the section that classifies bento. what does a cultural reference have to do with types of bento??? this reeks of product placement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.233.51.113 (talk) 10:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia frowns on trivia sections, preferring instead for the information to integrated with the rest of the article. It is a quick mention, and I don't know where else it could go. --Imroy (talk) 11:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

the two kanji for bento "弁当" seems to be ateji. Does anyone know what the presumably indigenous word "bento" means? what is its etymology?

便当 (the Chinese word for bento box) also means "convenient" in mainland Mandarin. I don't think this meaning a loanword from Japanese because you can take the word apart in Chinese: 当 is a character that can be attached to some other characters to make it an adverb/action-describing adjective (e.g. 妥当、顺当、恰当), 便 means "convenient" or "ease". Problem is that 弁 is not a shinjitai of 便。 --Voidvector 05:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The argument here is meaningless because 弁当 is not recognized as ateji by the Japanese. No matter what meaning "弁当" originally had, I'd say that looking the origin of 弁当 in 便当 doesn't make sense. It is no doubt that "便当" is a type of loanword inspired by Japanese bentō of which habit/notion was imported to China and Taiwan from Japan. Hrkoew 16:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] references

Who the hell wrote "This article or section does not cite its references or sources. You can help Wikipedia by introducing appropriate citations."? Live in Japan and this is common sense. Do we need a cite to state that the US is in N. America?!?!?!?!?!

You don't seem to understand the purpose of that tag or references in general. No, you don't have to have a reference that states the US is in North America. However, the history section could use a LOT of references to verify the facts that are presented there. References aren't used to back up common knowledge, they're used to back up obscure facts or things that need proof to be verifiable. Most people don't know the history behind bentos and most people don't want to just take someone else's word that the section is 100% accurate and full of history fact. This is why references are used. In general, every Wikipedia article should have numerous references; this one currently has none, which is why the tag is there. --pIrish 22:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Then why is the tag for the whole article? There is nothing disputable in the lede, for example. I've moved the tag to the history section per your comments. --C S (talk) 23:47, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eh, wha?

This sentence is just above the 'Other' section: "Corrosion of metal bento boxes by the acid of umeboshi was used to be popular in Japan, and eventually makes a hole in the middle of the lid." Could someone untangle it? I would, but I don't know what it's trying to say... --StarChaser Tyger 07:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I'm not sure what it means either, but it was changed by User:Jjok here. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 15:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] What happened to the external links

I was utalizing the links yesterday and today they were gone!!! --24.109.190.76 22:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

They were removed because they violated the policies set forth by this page. They consisted of either blogs, commercial sites intended to sell products, or were just generic linkspam put there to garner traffic to the site. Those sites were replaced by a link to photos on Flickr because that gives people the ability to look at photos of bento boxes if they want to, but it doesn't break policy. Flickr is also extremely neutral because everybody shares it. Instead of choosing five blogs out of thousands based on subjective or superficial criteria, you can have one site (where most of the blogs host their pictures anyway) that does not favor one person's photos over another.
Please remember that Wikipedia is not a linkfarm. Sites should not be included just because they are about the topic. This is an encyclopedia. Not a link directory. Go to Google for that. The general principle among Wikipedia editors is to have as few links as possible, though most would prefer if there were none at all and just have in-text citations to outside sources make up for the lack of external links. Less is more. Articles are of much higher quality if they aren't cluttered with links. This article would never have made it to good article status if those links were to remain. --74.137.227.117 02:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How to make bentō

Starting with a 4:3:2:1 ratio as a traditional style is a bit misleading. Bentō can take any form; it just has an orientation of having many kinds of side dish and enough amount of rice, which reflects the Japanese dietary habit and a sense of joy. So it's true that rice accounts for about a half and that rice usually comes with a small amount of pickles. However, it should be stressed that the ratio is just an example for an explanatory purpose. (This is how the Japanese wiki article for bentō was written.) Also, what is "traditional?" In the past, hinomaru bentō and onigiri bentō, both of which are largely made of rice, were pretty common. For a quick fix, the word "typical" is more appropriate than "traditional." Hrkoew 15:53, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How to make bentō - wasabi

Is this a common practice?

If sushi is a part of the bento, it should be prepared with more wasabi than normal.

As wasabi's effect for food presevation is strong, I personally haven't heard of increasing the amount of wasabi. Some smart people put a small amount of wasabi inside the bentō box when the bentō is NOT sushi, though. Also, since rice vinegar is used for sushi, sushi is by nature a preservative food. Indeed, there are many kinds of sushi which wasabi is not used for.Hrkoew 16:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

PS: A more common measures to prevent food poisoning is to make bentō taste a little richer by adding extra ingredients such as salt, soy source and sugar, or by includiing sunomono, vinegared dish. Extra ingredients also keep bentō tasty even when the bentō gets cold.Hrkoew 17:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

After the above comments, the description concerning the minor point was deleted aggressively along with many other good and true descriptions. I think I should recover them soon. Hrkoew (talk) 07:03, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

Needs etymology; Wiktionary says the first character means "Zhou dynasty cap," which doesn't make any sense. Badagnani (talk) 02:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)