Talk:Benazir Bhutto

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 Benazir Bhutto was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: May 4, 2008

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Benazir Bhutto article.
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Benazir Bhutto is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
March 15, 2008 Featured article candidate Not promoted
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[edit] GA fail

Hello. I'm sorry to inform to everyone working on this article, that I am failing the article due to the many issues I found while reviewing the article. Please address the following concerns before renomination:

  • Numbers under 100 should be spelled out, with the exception of centuries, percents, and money amounts.
  • From 1969 to 1973 she attended Radcliffe College at Harvard University, where she obtained a Bachelor of Arts degree with cum laude honors comparative government. This sentence seems to be missing a word. Perhaps... in comparative government?
  • This quote, Bhutto would later call her time at Harvard "four of the happiest years of my life" and said it formed "the very basis of [her] belief in democracy". needs a citation.
  • The first and third paragraphs of the Family section need some citations.
  • Is Image:Bhuttongabol.jpg a candid image? If not, it needs the website where it came from and a fair-use rationale.
  • The first and second paragraphs under Prime Minister need to be referenced.
  • There are two "citation needed" tags under Policies for women.
  • More recently, she took an anti-Taliban stance, and condemned terrorist acts allegedly committed by the Taliban and their supporters. needs a ref.
  • Bhutto denied holding substantive overseas assets. needs a ref
  • The PPP has responded by flatly denying the charges, suggesting that Swiss authorities have been misled by false evidence provided by the Government of Pakistan. needs a ref
  • The first paragraph under Western Asia needs some refs.
  • Under Early 2000s in exile, there is a "citation needed" tag and the last paragraph is unreferenced.
  • Musharraf's allies in parliament, especially the PMLQ, are unlikely to reverse the changes to allow Prime Ministers to seek third terms, nor to make particular exceptions for either Bhutto or Sharif. seems like speculation unless some important journalist or something stated it, in which case it needs a citation
  • Under Preparation for 2008 elections, three of the four paragraphs begin with On (date)...mix it up for more interesting reading.
  • Similarly, under International reaction, most of the sentences are in the same format. (Person) said/commented... Mix it up a bit.
  • Scotland Yard investigation needs refs.
  • The references section needs major cleanup and formatting. Use Template:cite web to help with that.

Also, there are some grammar and punctuation problems. The article needs a thorough copy-edit. If you need help with this, Wikipedia:WikiProject League of Copyeditors should be able to help out. Good luck with improving the article! Nikki311 21:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sunni/Shia NPOV

I have added NPOV tag to the article after an editor started edit war by removing sourced info that Benazir Bhutto was Sunni. To be neutral I listed both Sunni and Shia factions, but the editor wasn't satisfied with that. --SMS Talk 15:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Editors can just look at your contributions page and at the history pages of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Benazir Bhutto and see for themselves who started the edit was by repeatedly removing sources that indicated that the Bhutto family was Shi'a Muslim, even though every one who knows anything about Pakistan knows well that their religious affiliation is not subject to debate.

The Times, the Sunday Herald, the Huffington Post, the New York Post, the Washington Post and Vali Nasr (in his book The Shia Revival), among others, state that Bhutto was a Shi'a Muslim. The Washington Post interview you provided is not a reliable source, and any reason for a PPP official to state that Benazir was a Sunni is to avoid adding fuel to the sectarian tension.

Anyway, this is becoming very ridiculous. Asking someone to prove that the Bhuttos are Shi'a Muslims is like asking to prove that Lenin was a communist. LahoreKid (talk) 16:31, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Here is the complete quote from Nasr's book.
"Two later prime ministers, the ill-fated Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and his Radcliffe-educated, currently exiled daughter, Benazir Bhutto, were also Shia. Feeling the wind shift in the 1990s, Benazir styled herself a Sunni, but her Iranian mother, her husband from a big Shia landowning family, and her father's name, the name of Ali's twin-bladed sword, make her Shia roots quite visible. In a way, Benazir's self-reinvention as a Sunni tells the tale of how secular nationalism's once solid-seeming promise has given way like a rotten plank beneath the feet of contemporary Pakistan's beleaguered Shia minority."
This makes it very clear that Benazir styled herself as a Sunni in later life. To claim that she was only ever a Shi'ite is simply not true. WWGB (talk) 02:14, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Apparently you didn't understand what was written. What Nasr meant is that she claimed to be a Sunni, and behaved as such obviously for political reasons. He says Benazir's self-reinvention as a Sunni tells the tale of how secular nationalism's once solid-seeming promise has given way like a rotten plank beneath the feet of contemporary Pakistan's beleaguered Shia minority which means that she could not possibly assume the role of one of Pakistan's leaders while being part of a minority persecuted by a fanatic majority. Also, every other source I provided says she was a Shi'a so this is the only thing that should be mentioned in the infobox. LahoreKid (talk) 18:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand perfectly well what was written, and please stop being so condescending. Whatever her motives, Benazir adopted the Sunni denomination in later life, so portraying her as solely Shi'ite is playing selectively with the truth. You provided the reference, but now only want to accept part of it. That's not how it works. Your comment about "a minority persecuted by a fanatic majority" demonstrate that you are more concerned with pushing your personal POV than presenting a true and neutral position. Now that the complete position is known, any further reversions will be vindictive and disruptive. WWGB (talk) 23:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the above remarks by WWGB here, however curiously outside of the infobox the article makes no mention of this (unless my eyes are deceiving me) - should the article note this or not? Pahari Sahib 23:40, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Every single source I provided, The Times, the New York Post, the Huffington Post, the Sunday Herald, the Washington Post, call Bhutto a Shiite. If Bhutto, later in her life, portrayed herself as a Sunni if was certainly done for political reasons and it wasn't as explicit as you want to believe. Nasr implies that she distanced herself from her Shi'a upbringing and background. I have provided sources from 6 very respected sources that state she was a Shi'a. Unless you provide reliable sources that explicitly say that she converted to Sunni Islam, the infobox will stay as it is. Also, you removing references to Shi'ism in every article under the pretext that only the religion should be mentioned, then adding Sunni Islam show that what you are doing is nothing less than POV-pushing and I really hope you wouldn't infect these articles with your deeply-rooted hate. LahoreKid (talk) 08:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 3rd Opinion

Very good, secondary sources are provided for the statement that bhutto was a shi'a. 1 good, primary, source is provided that she was a sunni. Secondary sources always carry more weight than primary sources, and are to be prefered per WP:RS. And, at the end of the day, the one individual's statement in the interview linked to above would be undue weight to mention in the infobox in the face of a preponderance of evidence in the other direction. Pastordavid (talk) 20:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok! fine I withdraw. --SMS Talk 20:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Archiving

I think this page is getting too much lengthy and it should be archived. Any objections? --SMS Talk 15:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Done. Pastordavid (talk) 20:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Allegations of Giving Nuclear Secrets to North Korea

Shyam Bhatia, an Indian journalist of notable credibility, has reported that Bhutto gave DPRK information on developing nuclear weapons for exchange of ballistic missile development to counter the imbalance Pakistan had with India. Several credible sources have picked up on this. Bhatia alleges that she asked that it not be known until after her death that she made the deal due to the controversy over it. [1]

I suggest we tread lightly with this. Please be extra careful to use only sourced info. Arnabdas (talk) 20:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)