Talk:Ben Gurion International Airport

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Contents

[edit] older entries

Shouldn't the title of this article be Ben-Gurion International Airport since there is a - in the name and that is the official name of the airport? and not Ben Gurion which makes it sound like a first and last name which it isn't. Misterrick 05:18, 16 November 2004 (UTC)

According to this page: IAA official site, that the page is Ben Gurion, without the dash. I am tempted to follow the official page (and presumably the official name)

  • The name of the airport does not have a "-" between the "Ben" and "Gurion" IZAK 19:27, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The airport was named after David Ben-Gurion the first Prime Minister of Israel and he does spell it with a - between the Ben and Gurion. Please refer to Prime Minister Ben-Gurion's wikipedia article. Misterrick 06:25, 17 November 2004 (UTC)

Regardless of how he spelled it, the airport does not have a dash in it, as the official page shows. Burgundavia 06:57, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Misterrick: I am well aware who the airport was named for and how that gentleman's name was spelled (in English), however, User:Burgundavia has told you correctly, the name of the airport does NOT have the hyphen between the "Ben" and the "Gurion", check the link here [1] for the way the airport names itself. Most importantly Ben Gurion in the Hebrew language does NOT have any hyphen whatsoever and the airport is named for the Hebrew way the name is used and not for its English usage. IZAK 07:41, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Serves Lod or Tel Aviv?

According to the infobox, this airport serves Lod. But if i go to the Lod article, there is the phrase "Nearby Lod is Ben Gurion International Airport, which serves Tel Aviv" on the third line. --Lordandmaker 20:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

It is Israel's major international airport. It serves the Tel Aviv area in the Western sense, but being as Israel isn't so large, it is the primary international airport for the whole country, with the possible exception of Ovda International Airport serving Eilat. Cheers, TewfikTalk 01:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I realse this, i was just pointing out the inconcistency between the articles, but trying to avoid nominating myself to fix it with my limited knowledge at the same time. ;) --Lordandmaker 10:18, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
The template lists Lod, Jerusalem, & Tel Aviv as the nearest cities, though it presents that data as what cities it serves. Perhaps we should change the listing to Gush Dan or Israel? Cheers, TewfikTalk 16:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

In the first paragraph, it says "located near the town of Lod, 15 kilometers southeast of Tel Aviv". I think the location would be clearer for most readers if is said something like "centrally located near the town of Lod, about halfway between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem". (Or whatever the distance is.) Or maybe say "... about 20 minutes travel from Tel Aviv and 40 minutes from Jerusalem".

Presumably it's this location between the 2 largest cities in the country that has made it the main airport of the country, and identifying the location as between these cities would be more meaningful. T-bonham 01:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review (on hold)

  • High quality prose, including proper spelling, grammar, and clear language. Also look for proper formatting and organization of the article, with appropriate use of wikilinks, sections, table of contents, and general organization as spelled out in the Manual of Style.
Good, but the section on Terminal 1 needs to be improved. It is confusing that you are discussing how it was, and then talk about how it is now. It needs to be made clear that the second paragraph is how the terminal used to be. Otherwise the prose is good.
  • Adequate referencing, preferably with the use of either inline or Harvard citations
This needs to be improved before becoming a GA article. While not everything has to be referenced statments such as" When the time comes, a second international airport will be built elsewhere in the country certainly do need to be footnoted. The 'History' and 'The airport today' sections need more references in particular, as do any sections regarding the airport's future plans.
  • There is appropriate broadness of coverage of the topic
The topic is broadly covered
  • It is written from a neutral point of view.
It is neutral
  • It has not been the subject of recent editwars (check the history)
There have not been edit wars
  • If images are used, that they are free images, or if they are copyright, that their use is covered by Wikipedia's fair use guidelines
The images are good

Overall the article is good as it stands, but needs to have the prose improved in the Terminal 1 section, and include more references. If this is done, I will support GA status.Zeus1234 23:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I did a copyedit of the Terminal 1 section and added some references. Is it up to par, or does it need anything else? --יהושועEric 16:50, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Add references for the following sections, and I will pass it.
  • This extension is the first phase of a new rail line from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem with a spur to Modiin. Construction on this line is scheduled to be completed in 2007 (Modiin) and 2012 (Jerusalem).
  • In December 2006, Ben Gurion International Airport ranked first among 40 European airports, and 5th out of 77 airports the world, in a survey conducted by the Airports Council International. It was also placed first in its size category. The survey consisted of 34 questions. A random sampling of 350 passengers at the departure gate were asked how satisfied they were with the service, infrastructure and facilities. Ben Gurion received a rating of 3.94 out of 5, followed by Vienna, Munich, Amsterdam, Brussels, Zurich, Copenhagen and Helsinki.
  • At least one reference for each of the following sections: Bus or Taxi, Car, Security, Terminal 4, Terminal 2
  • Add a reference for both of the incidents discussed in the history section
  • The second half of the Terminal 3 section also needs at least one reference
  • For the runway section, add either references or a diagram of the runways
  • Destinations that haven't yet begun also need references: Arkia Israel Airlines (Amman, Dublin [Starts July 2], Eilat, Haifa, Larnaca, Ovda). The May 1st one is starting soon, so it's not really nessesary to reference that one. Zeus1234 17:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


Added references for:

  • New rail line
  • The two incidents in the history section (Hijacking of Sabena flight and the Lod Airport Massacre)
  • ACI survey
  • Arkia future flight to Dublin

Derwig 17:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

You still have a few more sections that need referencing.Zeus1234 17:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Another thing as well, many of the references are not formatted properly. For example, Ref. 12 is formatted correctly, but refs 2-3, 5-10 and 16-18 need fixing.Zeus1234 17:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


All done- References have been added to all requested sections. References reformatted throughout the article.
Derwig 10:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Upon another reading of the article, there is one more thing you need to do before I pass it. As it stands now, there really is nothing that discusses the history of the airport besides the two incidents and the short section about terminal 1. Expand the history section a little bit, by indicating when the airport was founded, and provide a little bit of its early history. As it stands now, there is simply not enough about the history. Make sure to reference this part when you have done it. Zeus1234 15:44, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I think this has been done. Flymeoutofhere 17:37, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] hijacking history

This section should be moved down to a less prominent position on the page. There is no reason why hijackings have to be the first thing that hits your eye when you want to know about Ben Gurion Airport. Also, the paragraph begins in a clumsy way. The airport started out as Lod Airport. So what does that have to do with hijackings?? --Gilabrand 19:27, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I suggested that the history section be expanded. Perhaps it might be better if the hijackings section be renamed to 'Incidents,' and an entirely new sections about the history be written.Zeus1234`
I re-arranged and added to the history section and created a separate terrorism section to discuss those two major incidents. I think we are there! --יהושועEric 23:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Expand the history section a little bit more until it truly resembles a paragraph, and I will pass you. All the other airport GAs have reasonably detailed history sections. See: Port Columbus International Airport and Portland International Airport. Both of these have a good paragraph dedicated to plain old history, and not just incidents.Zeus1234 01:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I think this has been done. Flymeoutofhere 17:37, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Good work! The article is now worthy of GA status.Zeus1234 17:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Featured Article Criteria

  1. It is well written, comprehensive, factually accurate, neutral and stable.
         * (a) "Well written" means that the prose is engaging, even brilliant, and of a professional standard.
         * (b) "Comprehensive" means that the article does not neglect major facts and details.
         * (c) "Factually accurate" means that claims are verifiable against reliable sources and accurately represent the related body of published knowledge. Claims are supported with specific evidence and external citations; this involves the provision of a "References" section in which sources are set out, complemented by inline citations for quotations and for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged. (See citing sources for suggestions on formatting references; for articles with footnotes or endnotes, the meta:cite format is recommended.)
         * (d) "Neutral" means that the article presents views fairly and without bias; see neutral point of view.
         * (e) "Stable" means that the article is not the subject of ongoing edit wars and that its content does not change significantly from day to day; vandalism reversions and improvements based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply.
  2. It complies with the manual of style and relevant WikiProjects. Thus, it includes:
         * (a) a concise lead section that summarizes the topic and prepares the reader for the higher level of detail in the subsequent sections;
         * (b) a system of hierarchical headings; and
         * (c) a substantial but not overwhelming table of contents (see section help).
  3. It has images where they are appropriate to the subject, with succinct captions and acceptable copyright status. Non-free images must meet the criteria for inclusion of non-free content and be labeled accordingly.
  4. It is of appropriate length, staying focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

Please strike out what is completed. --יהושועEric 15:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

There are no FA airport articles done recently, so it is hard to compare this one to anything else. I am not an expert of FA articles by any means, so someone else's opinion should be taken as well. That being said, I can still identify a few shortcomings with the article. You really should have a runway diagram. The lead needs rewriting to incorporate what is in the rest of the article. Everything needs to be referenced (except the lead). I would consider reorganizing the sections so that they make more sense. For example, History of terminal 1 should probably be in the histroy section. Consider having an entire section dedicated to the airport's future instead of putting that information in various places. As for prose, I am not hte best judge, it looks good to me, but others may disagree. Zeus1234 15:49, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I have scoured the internet for a runway diagram, and I can't find one anywhere. Maybe they are public for security reasons? I think we will have to do without. --יהושועEric 17:30, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I cropped a NASA image and put it in the runways section. If anyone knows how to use photoshop or something like that, please update the image with a zoom in. I did the crop myself, and I am not much of a graphics editor. --יהושועEric 17:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Globalsecurity.org has a nice diagram of the runways- I'm not sure if it's copyrighted though...S234 05:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Found an old map of the field in he:wikipedia. Uploaded it as Image:LyddayAirport.jpg . It is part of a collection of the United States Library of Congress (see image tag for link and details). Add to the history section? Derwig 19:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I nominated the article for FA status. Please put any new FA related comments in a new section at the bottom. --יהושועEric 20:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terminal One Today

Whoever added the information about the new VIP wing should check the cost of using it - $50-250 for what? A minute, an hour, a day? This sounds too cheap to me. --Gilabrand 15:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terminal One/1

There is no uniformity here - In the same paragraph, there are jumps from Terminal 1 to Terminal One. So which is it? --Gilabrand 07:24, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorted. Flymeoutofhere 18:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NASA image

I think the image is not of Ben Gurion Airport. There is a body of water near the runways, and so it cannot be Lod area. Looking at the satellite photos at [2], the runways are probably of Sde Dov in Tel Aviv. The image is too small for me to be certain, so have a look, and consider removing the image. Derwig 19:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes I saw that and thought the same as you but thought there must be some explanation. Probably would be best to remove it - can we source one from anywhere else? Flymeoutofhere 19:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Try http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/lod.htm- after the history, it has a few nice runway diagrams.S234 05:38, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes they look great. Can someone upload please. Flymeoutofhere 18:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Done! --יהושועEric 14:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aesthetic layout

As this article is now being considered as a feature article, I think more attention needs to be paid to aesthetics. At the moment it is looking quite ugly. The new photocopy needs to be cropped, and should not be the first picture you see on opening. There are many photos in the photo gallery - way too many are bad ones, I think - but if there is anything decent there that shows the airport as an attractive place, I would suggest bringing it up to the top. --Gilabrand 20:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I have done some work on this, but I agree that the gallery should be reduced further. --יהושועEric 23:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree- gallery should be reduced. Also photo of departure hall does not belong in History section. Should move up to the header. Derwig 23:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes some more aesthetic stuff could be done, i don't know if I would call it ugly though nadav

OK, OK, not ugly...Anyway it looks better already with the insertion of a colorful picture, although I'm not sure this one is appropriate. The reduced size makes it kind of blurry.

--Gilabrand 05:13, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] mention of the terminal 3 arabic controversy

There is no mention of languages used. There was a pretty large controversy when Terminal 3 opened about the fact that most signs did not include arabic, which is supposedly an official language. The airport authority said that international norm was not to include secondary officaial languges. Please add this info. nadav 23:44, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I see they have been addressing the problem, however: [3] [4]. But discrimination in security checks is still a problem: [5], [6], [7] nadav 02:25, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Not to get into a POV debate, but I wouldn't call it discrimination, I call it thorough security screening. A white Jew never tried to hijack or blow up an El Al jet. Is it worth putting in? --יהושועEric 04:40, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I haven't expressed any personal opinion, and I understand what you are saying. However, this information must be put into the article since it has been the subject of much media coverage. nadav 17:36, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] railway access

The airport station sits is a regular stop on the Nahariyha-Haifa-Tel Aviv-BG Airport-Lod-Be'er Sheva line, which is Israel Railways' main north-south line. With one or two transfers, one can even reach the Jerusalem railway station (Malha station).

[edit] Gallery

I have a serious aversion to needless galleries, especially in featured articles. The pictures in the gallery at the bottom of the page should be moved to Wikimedia Commons, with a link to the relevant page provided (using {{commons}}). Especially important images could be incorporated into the rest of the article, perhaps next to the "Airline and destinations" section. In the meantime, I'm going to put the "Airline and destinations" section into two columns. If consensus goes for moving the images alongside that section, the column format ought to be eliminated. -- tariqabjotu 14:34, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I of course support these suggestions. I raised the columns suggestion during the FAC. But how come the columns aren't visible for me? Can something be done that would work in all web browsers? nadav 02:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd support the changes as well. The gallery isn't needed here; of course that's the case with dozens of other articles. -- Phoenix2 (talk, review) 04:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I have no real problem with that - lets try to incorporate more into the article. Just one point though, before the gallery is deleted can we please make sure that each photo is in a category to do with the airport so that we can find them all easily in future.--Flymeoutofhere 08:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Y Done I put the images in Category:Airports in Israel. There is also one Commons image [[Image:BGN LY King David Lounge birdseyeview.jpg. nadav (talk) 00:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New photo

I am not saying this because it is my photo that got moved, but the new "airport from above" is very dull looking and could be any of a zillion airports anywhere in the world. I would not use it at the head of the article. If you want someone to read this stuff, it also has draw their attention aesthetically. --Gilabrand 11:38, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:LyddaAirport.jpg

The historic map image has been removed since apparently it did not bear a copyright tag. Can it be reuploaded please? The correct copyright tag to place on it is {{PD-Israel-Photo}}.nadav 09:01, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I uploaded it with the new tag. Hope it's OK now--Gilabrand 19:06, 19 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Kissing the ground

Anyone know anything about the custom of kissing the ground once you deplane, once officially entering the Holy Land? I have heard it done by both Jews and Christians. Nowadays, however, there is no "ground" near the airport; you go into a fancy terminal and the first "ground" you see is upon exiting the airport. Is this possibly just done by people who are taking special flights to make Aliyah nowadays? Valley2city 16:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Interesting question. I've never witnessed this since the new terminal was built... Used to see it on a lot of flights before that... It would be great to have a picture from back then showing this happen! --BACbKA 20:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] featured?

It surprises me that this article is assessed as a featured article and even made its way to the Article of the Day - (to me:) it looks more like a mere list of little compelling facts (esp. the destinations of the airlines). Jakob.scholbach 05:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Guys, this page is vandalized. How can it be a featured article!!!

spacejuncky 06:23, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accessibility

just me or is the accessibility section repeated? someone want to take that out? -noah

[edit] Image:Bengurionrunways.gif

Image:Bengurionrunways.gif looks suspiciously like a Microsoft Flight Simulator screenshot. It has a US Govt PD licence, but the website it is taken from (globalsecurity.org) is not government, nor does it indicate on the page referenced that that is the source of the image.

The image should IMO be replaced by a genuine satellite photo with a genuine licence, or with a map. FiggyBee 21:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I imagevio'ed it. That site is not a US govmnt website. --Shuki 18:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] City of Airport

Ben Gurion International Airport has its own ZIP code, and according to the map on its website it is outside the municipal boundaries of both Tel Aviv-Yafo and Lod. An AP story calls it "Airport City", however I do not think it is considered by Israeli law to be a city, local council, or regional council. If anyone has anymore information it would be great. This map has the airport marked within the Tel Aviv District. Thus, I will change the location of the airport (which was my change a very long time ago). --Shamir1 (talk) 00:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

  • you'r right, ben gurion AP is locatd at "KiryatSde Ha'teopa",airport union city or airport city(קריית שדה התעופה)

but in the location it should be "Airport City" not Tel aviv district —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.179.102.6 (talk) 21:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Attention tage from Aviation wikiproject removed

I took it out because if it needed immediate attention, then it wouldn't be an FA, would it?