Talk:Belfast International Airport

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The article needs references and citations, as there are very few. Also, the history section needs to be majorly expanded. I do not believe it even states when the airport was opened, etc.Gittinsj 03:20, 19 March 2007 (UTC)gittinsj
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The article needs references and citations, as there are very few. Also, the history section needs to be majorly expanded. I do not believe it even states when the airport was opened, etc.Gittinsj 03:20, 19 March 2007 (UTC)gittinsj
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Contents

[edit] Belfast Airport Passenger Graph(facts & Figures)

I have changed the graph in this article as it is more updated and easier to understand. If any thinks we should use the old graph please do change it, But please give a reason why you thought it should be changed.

[edit] Gallery Added

I loughrey13 added a gallery to the page as there a lot of pictures from the airport and I couldn't put them anywhere else as there isn't enough text! I also added 3 other pictures including two to do with the master plan. If anyone has a problem with what i have changed please feel free to tell me!

[edit] Picture of Continental Airline Aircraft

Should the picture of a Continental airlines aircraft be used, as the picture was taken at Bristol, and it has no direct relvence to Aldergrove? I will delate this picture at 1300 GMT on Saturday 7th July unless no one has any major objections. Tjnewell 18:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I will deleate it now Tjnewell 18:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio material removed

This text was removed from the article since it is wikified text from here:

  • November 1917: Aldergrove selected to be the Royal Flying Corps training establishment during the First World War. With the end of the war, Aldergrove remained open for Royal Air Force aircraft and for the fledgling civil traffic to and from Northern Ireland.
  • June 1921: King George V and Queen Mary visited Northern Ireland. Aircraft landed at Aldergrove with cameramen and reporters and returned to London with newsreel films and photographs of the event.
  • May 1925: Northern Ireland's own Special Reserve unit No 502 (Ulster) Squadron RAF was formed at Aldergrove.
  • 31 May 1933: Northern Ireland's first ever regular, sustained civil air service started. The route was Glasgow to Aldergrove and the flight was operated by Midland and Scottish Air Ferries.
  • 1933-1934: Aldergrove became Northern Ireland's civil airport.
  • 20 August 1934: Northern Ireland's first London service began to Nutts Corner, operated by Railway Air Services. The flight left from Croydon and went via Birmingham and Manchester to Belfast.
  • 1939-45: During the second World War, Aldergrove remained an RAF base, particularly for the Coastal Command.
  • 1946-63: Nutts Corner becomes the main civil airport of Northern Ireland.
  • 26 Sept 1963: The decision was taken to move civil flights back to Aldergrove because of less variable weather conditions than those at Nutts Corner. In recent years aircraft had been diverted from Nutts Corner to Aldergrove because of adverse weather conditions. The first passenger flight to land that day was a BEA Vickers Viscount from Manchester.
  • 28 October 1963: HM Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother reopened Aldergrove as a civil airport and inaugurated the terminal building which, as of 2006, is still in use as one part of a considerably larger complex.
  • 4 January 1966: The start of the first regular jet service, by a British United BAC 1-11 to Gatwick
  • 1969: Annual passenger numbers hit the 1 million mark
  • 11 September 2001: Transatlantic aircraft including a BA 747 are diverted to Aldergrove following the closure of United States airspace.
Vegaswikian 00:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 11th Busiest & References

A reference for the claim of 11th busiest would be useful (a primary refernce, i.e. the CAA stats would be best). In fact this article is lacking in any references! Thanks/wangi 11:15, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger with Belfast International Airport connections

The "connections" article was merely a wikified version of the list of airlines and their destinations. It's merged now. -- AirOdyssey 23:53, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History Section

I know that copyrighted materal was removed (see section above) but the current history section is very poor, missing even basic information about the beginings of the airport. It could do with some updates

[edit] MPPA

I'm guessing this is an abbreviation of "million passengers per annum". RV if you disagree.martianlostinspace 14:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC) UK Immigration Service Is the Immigration hall big at BFS ??? just often wondered as i have never flown into BFS on a Flight from Outside the UK is it modern or a pile of 1960s crap in design ????????

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 05:50, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irish name

We need a reference to support that Belfast International Airport has an Irish name that is used. This information isn't just for a back translation into another language but needs to be a name that is used and is verifiable. Ben W Bell talk 20:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

A citation has now been provided. But it should not be needed - I can see no reason why there's a need to justify the use of the Irish language on article relating to Northern Ireland. Aaronsc 21:40, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Can we have a neutral reliable reference? No one else uses the name, Belfast International doesn't seem to use it and the only places I've found it used is the SF website (once), Wikipedia and a Wikipedia mirror. The Irish isn't there just for translating into, it's there if it is genuinely another name it is known by. All the reference appears to have done is do a translation into Irish and it never seems to have been used anywhere else. If the airport genuinely does have an Irish version of the name it needs to be verifiable like all other information on Wikipedia. Ben W Bell talk 20:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I don't accept your argument. Why should pages about institutions in NI not follow the same policy as the Northern Ireland article? Aaronsc 13:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Which policy are you referring to? I'm just asking for the references to prove that the Irish name is an alternative name that is used, as per the WP:IMOS and the discussions to the effect on the IMOS. As far as I have been able to find the Irish name has only ever been used on the SF manifesto once and is listed on Wikipedia. The Irish name needs to be verifiable and shown to be in use, and the SF site is not usually considered to be a neutral reference in relation to things like this, it's a bit like quoting the DUP website as a reference that all of Ulster is under UK rule (okay not quite, that's going a little far). References should be either official or independant unless they are being used to support information on the organisation itself in question. Ben W Bell talk 13:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
The policy is that, in the opening of the article on NI, the name of the state is translated into Gaelic and Ulster-Scots. Why should an article like this be any different? I'm unwilling to get into a debate about the merits of the citation - on the basis of how the article on Northern Ireland behaves, a citation should not even be needed. Aaronsc 19:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Ah but on the NI article it's not just a translation into Irish and Ulster-Scots, it's how members of those communities and language groups call the country/state/whatever of Northern Ireland and it is quite easy to reference. There is no evidence that Belfast International Airport is called anything else in Irish/Ulster-Scots or the like and it is used. As per WP:IMOS it is used to provide any alternative names in those languages that the location is known as, and Belfast International Airport isn't. Ben W Bell talk 19:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Seeing as Belfast has a large Irish speaking community, I think it is fair to say that they would use it.--padraig 19:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm afraid I find your argument unconvincing Ben. Are you really suggesting that the Irish-speaking community would not use the Irish version of the name in common speech? The guidelines certainly don't imply that this form of translation should not be permitted. I accept that there may be a problem with the spelling of the translation, hence your inability to find more references. Irish dialects vary quite widely and it's possible that this isn't the best translation. The only way we'll get a more accurate translation is if the current one remains and is improved upon by the community. Aaronsc 22:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Oh utter tosh; can you back that claim up? Having wandered through Aldergrove (damn, that ages me) last month I didn't see any gaelic signposts at all, let alone a nameplate on the airport itself. The whole thing smacks of a back translation. The airport web site doesn't have it and no offence but a Sinn Fien site is hardly an unbiased resource. A grand total of 3 hits on google pretty much proves the lack of use. A literal translation is simply silly; what's next? An edit to big ian's entry where you translate his name? It's silliness and conceit. Nor do I see any relevant policy, a *convention* on town names where a demonstrable history is easily found and documented cannot be used to justify this. Heck even Eglinton didn't have gaelic signs up when I went through it in June. The attempted inclusion here is political rather than accurate, --Blowdart 21:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
No, Blowdart - the removal of the Irish version of the name is political. Its presence harms no-one, and is entirely consistent with the behaviour of the Northern Ireland article, as previously mention. Aaronsc 22:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I simply disagree. It's not called by that term in any common usage. Town/City names are easy to justify, they have a historical significance, they're using in documents, they have a history, and you're attempting to highjack that to justify your political stance (and lets face it, making up a back translation that appears a grand total of 3 times on the web, the article itself included simply illustrates what a nonsense it is). The airport isn't labelled in this way. If you could get your butt up the motorway and photograph the building with that title on it then I'd accept common use, but it's simply not there. It should go. However this will probably kick off a massive edit war. I'm tempted to ask for a temp lock and someone neutral to decide; how would we all feel about that? --Blowdart 21:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I personally don't care whether the Irish is there or not (though do remember this is the English language Wikipedia), however as you've said it's a translation. Find a reliable source to support it having an alternative name in Irish and it can stay. I'll not remove it again at the moment as we are having discussions regarding this which is the civilised way to come to a consensus over this. However I do see no reason to have an Irish version of the name as it seems there is no alternative name in Irish for the airport, at least none that is verifiable. Remember the core tenant of Wikipedia is verifiability. If it can't be verified it can't be used. Ben W Bell talk 21:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I must admit I kind of do care. I don't think it's accurate or in common usage. Mind you I feel the same way about seeing the Ulster Scots nonsense splattered all over the place *shrug* My poor nephew is ending up being taught it and I find the entire idea laughable. --Blowdart 21:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
See Lá Nua which has two articles relating to Aerfort Idirnáisiúnta Bhéal Feirste.--padraig 21:45, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Though, it's a Gaelic news site. That doesn't make it any less of a translation, rather than a real place name. Place names have history and common usage. I'm sorry, but the inclusion of this back translation is for political reasons rather than any nod or hope of accuracy. However I guess the silliness continues on non NI airports, eg. [Glasgow Airport], it just strikes me as laughable. Compromise? Same format as the welsh and scottish ones? ie. Irish: rather than "In Irish" and removal of the bold, switching that to italics, which indicates (to my mind anyway) acknowledgement of your translation but also leaves the common name more "noticeable" as a nod to the fact it's pretty much what the majority will call it --Blowdart 21:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Its not just a Gaelic news site, its the site of only Irish language newspaper published in Northern Ireland, based in Belfast.--padraig 22:11, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Which again doesn't make it any less of a translation than an actual name. It would be like putting a translation of the name into Ian Paisley and then trying to convince people it's ok. However, are we happy with the more consistent format in line with the Scottish and Welsh airports? --Blowdart 22:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I would accept that as a reasonable compromise. Derry Boi 22:17, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
If the others agree I'll also end up changing the Derry Airport article to match that format. There does appear to be a mass of inconsistency with translation appearances in a lot of NI articles; if you look at the page source you'll see there's an actual tag to indicate the language of a translation. By manual entry in a lot of pages that doesn't happen, so in our various travels we may want to bear in mind how it *should* be (in wikipedia syntax anyway) --Blowdart 22:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
(reduce indent) How it appears on the page doesn't bother me so much, just as long as the Irish translation has a reference to back it up and isn't just a back translation provided by an editor (as that counts as Original Research and isn't part of Verifiability). Other than that the appearance of the translation (if there is one) doesn't bother me, but I would say that in most articles alternative names (not just translations) for the subject are usually bolded as well as the article name version. Ben W Bell talk 11:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I think part of the problem is that there's a different here between town/city names, and what we have when we refer to this "place" as Belfast International Airport. That bugs me, and it does smack of a translation not in common use. However the Scottish and Welsh Airports also have this sort of conceit, so my compromise would be to give it. It doesn't claim to be a "real" name, and I think we all know nothing "official" refers to it, be incorporation documents, signposts, etc. Then again, neither will you see an official signpost "up north" to any Gaelic place name. Look, we all know this is mostly political. Town names don't see to have to justify Irish versions, and I guess two references, albeit from SF and an Irish paper point to it not just being from the mind of the editor, however you can argue that the usages quoted again are political rather than actual common use. Now the back translation for George Best airport on the other hand, well that's more interesting *grin* No mention of George Best at all. --Blowdart 11:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Well that logic then we should also add Bilfawst Internaitional Airport to the article - not a real name, not official but a translation none the less? Town names don't have to justify the translation because most of them were Anglicanised from the original Irish. This is the name of a organisation, and unless that organisation produces a translation we shouldn't add one. Wikipedia isn't a translation service. Tuaisceart Éireann 22:33, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I thunk that misses the point somewhat. Wikipedia isn't a translation service, but it provides translations nonetheless. Questions have been raised as to how often the name is used in every day live. As someone who speaks Irish and lives in Belfast, I can state the beyond any shaddow of a doubt the term we always use is "Aerfort Idirnáisiúnta Bhéal Feirste", without exception. The same argument came up in the article for Belfast City Airport (and it's surprising how similar the two cases are). I am not an avid reader of Lá Nua, though I can say that I have heard the term "Aerfort Idirnáisiúnta Bhéal Feirste" from both the BBC and RTÉ (especially recently when the Aer Lingus story was running in the media. Just because it may be the name of a company does not take away from the fact that the name can be tranlated. Through your interpretation TuaisceartÉireann, the English language media constantly use the wrong names when referring to Gaelic games - they refer to the team names in English, even though all counties' and most clubs' teams' names are legally registered in Irish. Likewise RTÉ RnaG constantly is also bending the rules by calling the Football Association of Ireland Cumann Sacair na hÉireann. The BBC almost always translates the name (often without the original) of political parties in the run up to French/Spanish/German/Italian general elections. It happens. D.de.loinsigh 23:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Routes section

I have removed the "New routes" section of the article. Further to an agreement on the Birmingham Airport page, this section is unnecessary repetition of new routes from the airport already included directly below (and correctly presented in accordance with WikiProject Airports guidelines). It complicates the article by requiring those who update the "Airlines and destinations" section when a new route is announced to also update a second, identical section which in turn provides readers of the article with no new information and only serves to unnecessarily lengthen the article as a whole. Please post your views here so we can try to come to a consensus before simply adding this section again. SempreVolando (talk) 14:42, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

As mentioned on Birmingham Airport talk page we dont really need new routes duplicated. This is an encyclopedia not a travel guide and the information in the Airlines and destinations bit is all that is needed. MilborneOne (talk) 15:09, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baggage Handlers

Just removed Baggage Handlers again as removed by SempreVolando, it is not notable and is probably not correct as the companies are not Baggage Handlers but ground service providers. Still not notable. I will bring it up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airports. MilborneOne (talk) 09:47, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] advert

Can someone point me towards another airport article that has a large glossy advert style section about "success"? I've had a look at a couple of big ones and cannot find such sections. --Fredrick day (talk) 19:58, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I have separated the main statistics table, graph and associated text from the 'About the airport' section, as this is factual and not written in the style of an advertisement. However we still need to address a way forward with the advert-style section still existing and tagged in the article. Would appreciate other editor's views on this - personally my preference would be to remove the section altogether, integrating any notable comments into other sections appropriately. Any thoughts? SempreVolando (talk) 19:28, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flygloespan Orlando Sanford Service

The service to Orlando Sanford was operated all year round however services reduced to a weekly service using a B757 in the Winter Season but Flyglobespan will add a 2nd weekly service from june and they will operate both services with a B767. See [1]

Fair enough, I assume flyglobespan have not yet loaded the winter 2008 / 09 flights onto their site. Thanks. SempreVolando (talk) 10:05, 12 April 2008 (UTC)