Talk:Beit Shemesh

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The article contains the following sentence:

"There are 567 immigrant settlers."

I have lived in Beit Shemesh for ten years, and I have no clue what this could be referring to.


I am removing this from Category:Wine regions. This is because it is not a region in the sense of the other ones (administrative areas with particular winemaking regulations). I thought about creating a category for villages which make wine, but these are almost infinite. Unless they have some legal significance (eg French appelations) I dont think they are important. I have put Cremisan into Category:Wineries however. Justinc 18:08, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] Ramat Beit Shemesh and Beit Shemesh

Is the city of Ramat Bet Shemesh included into the Bet Shemesh population? They are two different areas (although close in distance)

Ramat Beit Shemesh is part of Beit Shemesh, it's population is included.

Anyone know the source for the statement:

"2005 population around 80,000"

No, but I remember reading that it is one of the fastest growing cities in Israel. Spoil29

That's true, but unfortunately, there appear to many people who exaggerate this growth. I have heard local politicians and others claim that the population has passed 75,000, but based on the official figure for the end of 2004, it is highly unlikely that the population is greater than 65,000 at this time. Shlomo

The problem may be that some people think that Bet Shemesh and Ramat Bet Shemesh are the same. Spoil29

Bet Shemesh and Ramat Bet Shemesh are the same - Ramat Bet Shemesh is a large neighborhood in Beit Shemesh.

I removed the part about 80,000 people since according to official statistics, the population was 65,500 at the end of 2005 (see http://www.cbs.gov.il/population/new_2006/table3.pdf).

I agree. They should be merged with Ramat Bet Shemesh being a link to Bet Shemesh. Happy138 20:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I second that. The city is Bet Shemesh. It has one mayor, one city hall one everything. Ramat Bet Shemesh is only a general name for the two neighborhoods, just like "Giva't Sharet" is for the second (newer) of the three hill on which Bet Shemesh is on. --Gavers23 22:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

merged Happy138 16:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
And I oppose. The 'merge' has been reverted. This 'merge' was done in a highly unprofessional way. First of all, the 'merge' was totally inappropriate. The entire world knows RBS as a separate town. I have been there many times and until this discussion I have never known that it is technically merely a neighborhood of Beit Shemesh.

It is completely different from Beit Shemesh. Just like there are articles for different neighborhoods of Jerusalem, there is no problem in having an article for RBS, even if it is technically a neighborhood of BS. I will put that into the RBS article. --Bear and Dragon 22:12, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

After checking, I discovered that both the BS and the RBS articles already clearly mention that RBS is a neighborhood (well, 2 neighborhoods) of BS. Issue closed. Are we also going to move Har Nof, Givat Shaul, Ramot, Pisgat Ze'ev, Neveh Yaakov, etc, into Jerusalem? There is no reason why RBS should not have its own article. --Bear and Dragon 22:15, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] merge Ramat Beit Shemesh and Beit Shemesh

  • merge RBS is a neighbourhood of BS. BS is not such a big city that might require seperate articles for each neighbourhood. As it is, the BS article, except for the stats, is mainly refering to the RBS Haredi section. --Shuki 21:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
  • oppose. If the BS article refers mainly to RBS, then improve the BS article by writing about BS. Everybody I know sees RBS as a separate town. Until this dispute erupted I (who lies 20 km away from there and has been in RBS many times) never knew that it was not a separate town. This 'neighborhood' has about 20,000 inhabitants, making it a huge neighborhood and most definitely worth its own article. If you merge this article, I suggest you stick the same tags on the above-mentioned articles on Jerusalem neighborhoods as well, as well as of all other neighborhoods of other Israeli cities. We are going to be consequent. Merge this, and we merge Gilo, Har Nof, Pisgat Ze'ev, Neveh Yaakov, Ramot etc into Jerusalem as well. You can't have it both ways. --Bear and Dragon 23:47, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
B&D, you do understand that your statements are admitted WP:OR, and that you expect us to fall in line from what 'you' know as opposed to what might be consensus/policy. As for Jerusalem, or other major cities with split neighbourhood articles, if you can expand the main Beit Shemesh article extensive to the size and scope of the Jerusalem article, then I would might with you. Look at the nearby and almost identical Modi'in article. Would it be valid to open a seperate article for Modi'in neighbourhoods? Scale up to larger Israeli cities and check Rishon LeZion at triple the size - no need for seperate neighbourhood articles. --Shuki 13:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Do these neighborhoods of Modi'in also have 20,000 inhabitants and are they also demographically totally different from the rest of Modi'in? --Bear and Dragon 14:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
See my reply below. There are also other separate and unique neighborhoods in BS, other than RBS. Happy138 18:36, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Could you please name some of these neighborhoods, each of which are of course so well-known as RBS? --Bear and Dragon 23:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
  • merge. There are also other separate and unique neighborhoods in BS, other than RBS. They should all be in the same article. Happy138 07:04, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
  • merge. As now a majority for over a month - have merged.Flymeoutofhere 17:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sun godess?

I propose the following discussion points:

1. Beit Shemesh is better translated as "temple of the sun", not "home of the sun". The same is true about Bet-El, Bet-Dagan (dagon)and Beit Horon. All these were canaanite temple sites.
2. Shemesh was not a sun-goddess, but a sun-god, as is correctly stated in the link provided. Hficher 16:16, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inter-religious conflict

I am more than familiar with the conflicts being raised. However, the edits that have been added to the article to describe the issue are in clear violation of Wikipedia policy requiring a neutral point of view. These edits need to be drastically reworded and properly sourced before they can be reinserted. Even ignoring the typo, describing someone as being "attacked by a group of hooligan Chardim" is blatant POV and is unacceptable in any Wikipedia article. Alansohn (talk) 13:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

The word hooligan has been removed. Everything else is a statement of clear and unquestionable fact and not a POV in any way. If you insist on censoring the posting of facts that is a clear violation of Wikipedia policy and will be reported as such. jimr If you question any fact..state which one and you will be directed to the clear source of those facts. You have not made statement about anything else to show where POV was used. Be specific and I will answer specifically. Aside from that I will view you as a censor of facts until you clearly note exactly which statements you call POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.245.245.202 (talk) 00:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

The content you are adding is plainly not NPOV. None of it is. I would fix the wording myself but I don't have access to the news articles you cite. I would suggest that you just leave it be, or request help at WikiProject Israel, where presumably an experienced editor will have access to the articles and be able to determine their encyclopedic value and/or modify the text to be in accord with policy. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:25, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I think that the issue is much less POV, and more WP:OR, and misunderstanding of WP as seen with the poor editing by the anon with a suspected WP:POINT. Anon, please don't simply reinsert your edit. Instead, hone up on the WP guidelines and perhaps suggest an alternative wording here on the discussion page. --Shuki (talk) 21:34, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA

Hi. I think this article is getting very close to GA status. In terms of content, I think we are almost there, but the referencing is what definetely would hold this back in a nomination. If anyone is willing to help work on this, it'd be great. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Almost all of the statistical information can be attributed to this source (or if not, it should be updated to this source's data, which is so far the latest). -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)