Talk:Baturyn

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[edit] Sourcing to E of UA

I do not want to argue that this is a neutral source. However, it is an academic publication and the sources it uses for the factual info ought to be reliable. While caution is advised when transferring its conslusions and interpretations to WP, the numbers and facts can be used directly in most cases. If anyone questions specific numbers, please cite the source with an alternative #. --Irpen 21:22, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I see what happeded. Someone sneakily insterted different numbers from the sourced numbers I found earlier. And now with Ghirlandajo's revertion to the reliable numbers it is as it should be. Thanks for noticing that. Others, please cite your sources. --Irpen 21:29, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History

RE: this sentence:

  • "The town was razed to the ground by the Russian army of Alexander Menshikov in retribution for this alliance."

"Leveled" to the ground might be a better word. Or link to Witionary, but I doubt "razed" is there yet, you might have to add it. WikiDon 02:40, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Small, but significant changes relating to Swedish-Russian war

The two changes introduced are explained as follows.

1. The older version of Sweden's "assault on" the Russian Empire sounds slightly prejudicial and contradicts the historical genesis of the Great Northern War. Thus, the Wikipedia entry on the Great Northern War states that: "The war began as a coordinated attack on Sweden by the coalition in 1700."

The new phrasing of Sweden's "war with the Russian Empire" is more neutral.

2. The older version fails to note the reason why Hetman Ivan Mazepa was fighting. The Widipedia entry on Ivan Mazepa correctly states that the battle of Poltava, in which the War culminated, "was won by Russia, which put an end to Mazepa's hopes of transferring Ukraine under control of Sweden, which had promised independence in an earlier treaty."

Thus the reference to Ukraine's struggle for independence is more informative on an important point and paints a more objective picture of what Mazepa and his forces were fighting for. The latter (increased objectivity) flows from a comparison to the existing mention that "the Zaporozhian Cossacks were caught in the midst of the Great Northern War," which implies an accidentalism that is not in line with the historical reality.

I hope these comments help and I look forward to contuing this discussion, if needed.

LOZOWY (Lozowy 10:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC))