Talk:Battle of the Brule

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[edit] Battle of the Bois Brule?

I'm somewhat skeptical this battle took place when and where Armstrong described it. Writers who have looked into it can't find any supporting evidence. I wonder if perhaps Armstrong yarned this one up?Herbwag (talk) 17:06, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it's very possible for the reasons you mentioned. Although, peace broke down and there were skirmishes between the Treaty of Prairie du Chien in 1825 and the Dakota Uprising in 1862. I think you also have to consider if there was anyone around besides Armstrong who would have written about the battle. I tried to put it in it's context and point out that Armstrong is the only source. Do you have any sources questioning Armstrong?

Leo1410 (talk) 22:49, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I do have sources questioning Armstrong's account and I'll try to get to that. What really set me to question it, however, is that in the translation from the 1850s that I'm working on (and hope to get published), is that a battle of the Bois Brule in the same area is in fact mentioned, BUT it places the event in a previous century! It seems likely that a battle did take place, but perhaps NOT like Armstrong told it. Trying to make his book more exciting, he may have yarned it up in places and I don't blame or fault him.Herbwag (talk) 17:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

It's also interesting to note that the supposed battle took place in October 1842, the very same month Buffalo and everyone else signed the first Treaty at La Pointe. I saw a quote attributed to him to the effect of "I have never taken a scalp, I have only taken prisoners." I think that was in Morse. I am trying to find three primary documents somewhere on the internet--the speeches and negotiations surrounding the 1837 treaty, the same for 1842, and Buffalo's letter to Washington right after the Sandy Lake Tragedy. I have seen all of them before as part of a Wisconsin Historical Society publication on Treaty Rights, but I haven't had any luck finding them again. Leo1410 (talk) 04:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Wow! I didn't make the date (Oct. 1842) connection with the Treaty at La Pointe around the same time of the Battle. If there had been a BIG battle in the area at that time it would hardly have escaped all notice. Yes, I too have seen the Buffalo quote about not taking a scalp, and think it is in Morse as you say. The book you're referring to with the treaty speeches is probably: Ronald Satz. 1991. "Chippewa Treaty Rights" (Transactions Vol. 79, No.1, Madison: Wis. Academy of Sciences, Arts, and Letters) ISSN 0084-05.05.Herbwag (talk) 16:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

First off, wow! I know much more than most about the history of the Douglas Co./Brule area, but I never knew about a battle. Second, I know it would better help my understanding about the battle (as well as that of others), if the article was more clear about where along the river it took place. Did it happen near Lake Superior in the Clevedon Colony area, or was it further upstream, such as the in present-day Town of Brule? Also, it may be prudent to include the aforementioned relation between the date of the battle and the date of the 1842 treaty (actually, what are the exact dates of either?), as well as including a link to information on the Lake Superior Chippewa/Santee Sioux conflict. Mashtato (talk) 08:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is a link to a digitized version of Benjamin Armstrong's book [1]. In chapter 5 he writes that it took place 15 miles upstream from the mouth. He doesn't mention those landmarks because they didn't exist yet, but if you know the river well, you could probably make an educated guess from his description of the terrain. User:Herbwag pointed out that the whole account could be fictional, though I've seen a source that would seem to back up Armstrong. Regardless if this battle happened or not, the Brule River was the site of fighting between the Ojibwe and Sioux in the 18th century. Leo1410 (talk) 15:09, 3 April 2008 (UTC)