Talk:Battle of Trenton

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Flag of New Jersey
NJ Portal

Battle of Trenton is part of WikiProject New Jersey, an effort to create, expand, and improve New Jersey–related articles to Wikipedia feature-quality standard.

Bulletin: The next New York City meetup is Sunday June 1st.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Should there be information about the historic reenactments that the city of Trenton has recreating this battle. I have lots of info about this.--68.45.76.174 16:18, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Vandalism

Does anyone have an idea why this page is suddenly being vandalized so often? It seems like most of the vandals are editors on shared IP addresses in schools. Maybe it's because it's October and people are back in school... Valtam 21:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

As an important battle of the Revolutionary War, it is a popular topic discussed in history classes. Because WP is such a popular site, this is one of the first resources found in search engines. Since kids will be kids ... Olessi 22:04, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Well at least it's being taught and they're coming to WP because of it, though we'd hope they'd learn from and improve the article rather than grafitti it. Hopefully some are doing the former. I know in school, getting assigned to learn about x meant that x was probably annoying and in the end I remember very little, except I liked a girl in a university in Trenton. :)
With Wikipedia, I'm starting to become more interested in history and politics, especially around the Revoutionary War, so maybe I'll learn something and enjoy learning it. Gotyear 12:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I feel the same way, Gotyear - in the past, I've read a lot about the Civil War, but am learning more about the Revolutionary War now, through books and Wikipedia. (You spent time in Trenton? That must have been interesting - it's not exactly a touristy town at the moment... About six months ago, on my way to Philadelphia, I visited the Trenton battle memorial and walked past the little church where Rall died.)
Another good thing about Wikipedia is that you can learn a whole lot about certain conflicts by reading some pages' Talk Page: my favorite is the Falkland Islands. Even the naming of that page causes ongoing edit wars! Valtam 21:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Background Information

Shouldn't the background information that Gen. Washington was able to convince many of his men to stay beyond their enlistment terms (which were about to expire) which led to the victory at Trenton be added to this section?

Good suggestion. You are welcome to add the information - it is relevant to the article. (When were the enlistments running out? December 31, I think?) Valtam 19:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

This played more of a role in 2nd Battle of Trenton/Battle of the Assunpink than First Battle of Trenton. He had convinced them to stay on past the December 31 deadline by saying they would receive a monetary bonus. Some say his intent was to go after a British cache of money in New Brunswick and pay the men from that store. But 2 Trenton and Princeton wore the men down, they went directly into winter quarters at Morristown/Jockey Hollow and he never did go after the money, while the success of the Ten Crucial Days campaign created enough good will to enable him to raise recruits and keep the few men who had remained with him. crowncate at verizon.net72.73.197.170 05:26, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Johann Rahl

I'd like to comment that at the Old Barracks Museum in Trenton, which serves as the unofficial visitors center for the Battles of Trenton, we use Rall as the spelling as it tends to be less confusing to people and seems to be more commonly used in modern language as opposed to Rahl which was frequently used in 19th c. spellings. see www.barracks.org or www.tencrucialdays.com. Cate Crown, former Marketing Director and current volunteer, crowncate at verizon.net72.73.197.170 05:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I reverted an editor who made that infobox change. It was likely vandalism since he changed nothing else and Johann Rall is a valid link, whereas the other is not. Googling "Johann Rall" trenton gives me 938 results, with reliable sources such as [1] and [2].

Googling "Johann Rahl" trenton gives me 12 unique results. However, this National Parks Service PDF "Crossroads of the American Revolution in New Jersey" says Rahl x4 and Rall x0. An Edited Guide entry of H2G2 (it's been run through their peer review and cannot be easily modified after that). And a few personal pages.

Are these typos or is Rahl an accepted (German?) alternate spelling? Gotyear 12:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. I speak German, and can tell you that Rall and Rahl are two distinct names. I did a little research on your question and found:
German Wikipedia uses the spelling Rall for Johann Rall [3].
German Wikipedia lists 4 people with the last name Rall and 2 people with the last name Rahl. Therefore, these two last names are in usage, and are distinct.
Neither Rall nor Rahl mean anything in German, other than being names. (A Ralle is a German name of a type of bird, though.)
My conclusions: Rall is correct; Rahl is incorrect; they are not interchangable; the article should use Rall only, and not Rahl. Good question, Gotyear! Valtam 15:36, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the research and the explanation, Valtam!
It somewhat disturbs me that a publication of National Parks Service gets it wrong, but I guess that's the phrase "Good enough for government work" in action. ;) And other government works got it correct. Gotyear 16:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, going forward, we can hope that future government publications will look to Wikipedia for guidance - and we can hope that people continue to undo the damage from all the vandals who seem to love this page so much! Valtam 19:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boats

The famous painting of Gen. Washington could never have happened in real life, since standing up would have sent the whole boat toppling over. (unsigned - added by User:68.7.140.96, 02:33, 2006 November 6)

That is utterly untrue - The boats had flat bottoms and were leaky - if you sat down in them, you would have become wet, in the middle of winter. Most of the people on the boats stood. Valtam 15:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who won the battle of trenton

to be honest I think the people who started this war won it. The reason why i think that is because they knew exactly what they where doing.

Can you be more specific? Valtam 22:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-protect

Is there any consensus on Semi-Protecting the page? The vandalism seems to come exclusively from anonymous IP addresses (which seem to be from computers in schools). Semi-Protect would require an account to edit, right? Valtam 14:53, 8 November 2006 (UTC) waghington and his troops won mi know i my great great great grandpa gought in it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.225.203.164 (talk) 23:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Washington crossing the Delaware

No purpose served by separate articles. Merge that one into this one. Vidor 09:24, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Not true. The crossing, on its own, is an important moment in American history. The Battle of Trenton is a separate event, which happened many hours after the crossing. They each should have their own page. Valtam 15:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
It was the same day. Vidor 01:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
That's not exactly true. The crossing began on 12/25, and most of it was accomplished by midnight. It was completed by 3 a.m., and the march on Trenton started at around 4 a.m. The Battle happened on 12/26, which is not the same day as 12/25. Valtam 15:25, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lead

The following was added to the intro unwikified. A summary of the battle in the introduction should be concise and accessible. Those feeling up to it can try to salvage this paragraph. Olessi (talk) 00:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

After being driven out of New York by the British and forced to retreat to the West bank of the Delaware in the late summer of 1776, the Americans were feeling defeated. In the harsh winter, Washington was faced with the crisis of the end of the Continental Army’s period of enlistment. Because of this, he decided to attack the Hessian position at Trenton southern end of the British line along the Delaware before his army was gone. Washington’s plan was to cross the Delaware and attack the Hessian town. Washington had about 2,400 men from Virginia, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New York. The force set off for the Delaware, where they embarked in a flotilla of the Delaware River boats. It was a cold, dark night and the river was running with flowing ice. At about 11 o’clock, a heavy snow and sleet storm broke. Washington’s force did not reach the east bank until around 3 in the morning. His soldiers were badly clothed and many did not have shoes. His men then marched to Trenton, some of them leaving traces of blood on the snow. The Hessian commander had been ordered to construct defenses around the town but had not bothered to do so, as he did not consider the Americans a threat. On the night before the attack he was at dinner when he was brought information that the Americans were approaching. He ignored the message, which was found in his pocket after his death. The main American force, under Washington, entered Trenton from the North-West. Other sections marched around the town and attacked from the South. The remainder took a position to the North East, cutting off the Hessians’ retreat. The Hessians attempted to form in the town but were under attack from all sides. The Americans occupied the houses and shot down the German gunners and foot soldiers. The Hessian troops retreated to an orchard in the South East of the town, where they surrendered. The Americans suffered only 4 casualties, although 2 soldiers froze to death. About 20 Hessians were killed and 100 were wounded. As many as 1,000 soldiers were captured.

[edit] Decisive victory?

How was it? Though it preserved the army's morale, that was about it. The Battle of Trenton inflicted no major defeat on the British & Allied army and it did little to change the course of the campaign. The only three major decisive encounters the Americans actually won (with support) was Saratoga, Cowpens and Yorktown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.237.200 (talk) 16:39, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Updated the infobox to "American victory." Alphageekpa (talk) 10:42, 20 May 2008 (UTC)