Talk:Battle of Taranto

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Why Battle of Taranto? Wouldn`t it be more appropriate to name this article Attack or Raid on Taranto? Shouldn`t it be named according to the same logic as the article about the similar action at Pearl Harbor that occured almost exactly 64 years before I wrote this? Veljko Stevanovich 7. 12. 2005. 18:45 UTC+1

This action has always been known as the Battle of Taranto and it is appropriate that the article be named using the usual name. What constitues a battle, a raid or an attack is not clearly defined, so I think it appropriate to follow common usage for each action. Thus we have the attack on Pearl Harbour, the Raid on Rabaul and the Battle of Taranto.Nick Thorne 21:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] The only Western Allied Victory in the First Punic War???

I speak now, having entered this page by the link for the "Battle of Tarentum" from the First Punic War's battle box. Needless to say, I believe that this has to be corrected. I just wanted to bring this to your attention. ELV



[edit] Planes vs Torpedo bombers

I really don't wish to get into the revert war between Kurt Leyman and Nick Thorne over this, but if I might shed some light on the issues involved. Namely that of the 21 Swordfish involved on the raid only 11 carried torpedoes, the other 10 carried bombs and flares. So the current info box information stating 21 Torpedo Bombers is somewhat misleading. I would suggest that it be changed to 21 Swordfish Aircraft. Please discuss it here as endless reversions do not do anyone any good. Galloglass 16.25, 14 June 2006

The issue is not what the aircraft were armed with but what type of aircraft they were. The Fairy Swordfish was a torpedo bomber and in the Information box it seems that rather than name specific units, generic terms describing the type of unit are used. The use of the term torpedo bomber is entirely consistent with the use of terms like light cruiser or battleship etc to describe ships, rather than giving the name and class of the ships concerned.Nick Thorne 21:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "British" Royal Navy?

Sijo Ripa has added the word "British" the term Royal Navy in the opening section of this article. I submit that this use of the word "British" is redundant. The name of the organisation is the Royal Navy and in an English language article about WWII there is no need to qualify it since it is understood that the Royal Navy is the British naval force. There can be no confusion because other navies, such as the Royal Australian Navy include the name of their respective countries in the title. If there are no objections I will remove the word in a couple of days or so.Nick Thorne 02:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

First of all, I didn't mean it as disrespect for the hard work put in this article. However it seemed and still seems like a systemic bias, as not everyone knows what the Royal Navy exactly is, and it also isn't explained in the introduction (one sentence or one word could be enough however). At least it should be made more clear in the introduction, whether or not you put British before Royal Navy. Sijo Ripa 02:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I assumed no disrespect, so no offence taken and I hope none given. My concern is that saying "British Royal Navy" sounds clumsy. If a reader is unsure what the Royal Navy is, he or she can simply click on the link and find out. I doubt that there are very many English speakers with a passing interest in things naval who would not know that the Royal Navy is British. After all this instituion has been in existance and know as the Royal Navy for at least 500 years.Nick Thorne 02:46, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed the "British". I tend to look for random articles and just read the introduction. If the introduction sounds interesting, I read further. I only have read the introduction at starters, and I found it a "little bit" confusing (so not a real problem) as only in the last sentence it is said that it were "British" aircraft. But as I said, not a real problem. Sijo Ripa 13:05, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] End of big gun naval warfare

Good article in general, and I find it interesting to draw a comparison to the relatively lack of use of the (super) battle ships Yamato and the Musashi in the Pacific part of WW II due to the fact that wars were fought mainly from the airs and those ships couldn't reach the carriers, which led to the transformation of the third ship (which was still under construction) to an aircraft carrier, see: Shinano) and the abolishment of the Super Yamato class plans in 1942 (mostly due to th defeat in the Battle of Midway). Perhaps it can be put in the "See also" section. Sijo Ripa 13:05, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Decisive British victory

I am reverting Kurt's edit which removed the word decisive. There is no question that this was a decisive victory for the British since it in effect took the main surface forces of the Italian Navy out of the war and removed the threat that the Italian fleet in being posed to British forces in the Med. Kurt, if you want to ask a question about the use of a term in an article, it is more polite to place the question in the talk page and thus allow others to have a say before you edit and then put your question in the edit summary.Nick Thorne 00:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Italian attack on Alexandria.

The Italian answer to the British attack to Taranto was the attack on Alexandria on December 19, 1941, when two British battleships ("Valiant" and "Queen Elizabeth") and a tanker ("Sagona") were sunk. The battleships were refloated but this operation lasted several months.

a year later doesn't sound like much of an answer. GraemeLeggett 10:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

It Italy "Alexandria" is usually call "the answer". If you prefer: "a pondered answer".

[edit] Who was Lumley Lyster?

It's odd that there is no information at all in the article - or indeed in Wikipedia - about the British commander (info box). Any explanation? --Zeisseng 19:46, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by Kurt Leyman

I have reverted two edits by Kurt. He deleted two images without explanation and the majority of the first edit seemd to be about subtly changing the tone of the article, changing (incorrectly) a direct quote and inserting a clumsy rider to the section about the effects of the battle. When talking about the "strength" of a Naval force, it is not uncommon to refer to the capital ships in that regard. Losing half your capital ships would most commonly be considered as equivalent to losing half your strength. Talking about the "battleship strength" of a fleet seems clumsy to say the least. Nick Thorne talk 01:14, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


Kurt, you have reverted part of my recent edit.

  • Firstly, you seem to dislike the sentence "The Italian fleet had lost half its battleship strength in one night" and seem to prefer "The Italian battleship fleet lost half its strength in one night". The first of these sounds better to a native English speaking person, plus as an ex naval officer I have some familiarity with the form of words used in Naval disussions and I can assure you that the term "battleship fleet" is incongruous. The first sentence is one that someone well versed in things Naval might well use, the second would definitely not be used.
  • Secondly, you have replaced "Even with this serious setback, the Regia Marina was able to put two battleships and other ships to sea and fight at the..." with "Even with this setback, the Regia Marina had the adequate resourceso fight the...". Now I fail to see how you can possibly suggest that Taranto was not a serious setback for the Italian Navy, also your version is less informative. It removes information. My version includes the information about just what capital ship strength the Regia Marina was able to muster after Taranto. Your version is not equivalent at all.

I am at a loss as to why you want to make the changes you have unless it is part of some bizarre sort of campaign to gloss over Axis defeats and make their strengths seem greater than they were. Whatever your motivation, unless you can come up with some rational encyclopedic reason why I should not do so, I will chage the article back again in a day or so. Nick Thorne talk 07:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)