Talk:Battle of Prestonpans

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[edit] Jacobite Risings

Here-and elsewhere in Wikipedia-the rebellion of 1745 is refereed to as the 'second' Jacobite rising. In point of fact it is the fourth in a sequence beginning in 1689, through 1715 and 1719. I admit the abortive sideshow of 1719 is probably best placed to one side, but not surely Dundee's rising in 1689. Rcpaterson 01:14, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Those names are common enough, but if you wanted to change them to "the Fifteen" and "the Forty Five" for clarity I doubt anyone would object. --Craig Stuntz 00:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I've lived in Scotland all my life and I have never heard anyone referring to the first and second Jacobite risings. Rcpaterson 01:43, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flags

Even if the Young Pretender's forces had been 100% Scottish other than himself (he was half Polish & half mixed English, Scottish &c), they were still not representative of Scotland, a Scottish national army or engaged in a Brito-Scottish battle. Cope's forces were overwhelmingly English, but that doesn't mean we should use St George's Cross by their name.80.229.9.98 (talk) 21:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

They were a Scottish army with backing from France, they happened to be fighting for control of Great Britain, but that still does not make them a British force. -RiverHockey (talk) 03:36, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Must I repeat that the Jacobites were not representative of Scotland? The thing here is that a colourful flag icon in the summary box grabs the eye & is likely to be one of the first things a reader sees. If I leave the flags as you want them then the danger is that a reader's first impression will be of a 'Brito-Scottish' battle, & possibly that the rebellion was an attempt at a Scottish 'War of Independence', which is simply not true - it was a pan-British civil war.80.229.9.98 (talk) 09:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The Jacobites were a Scottish force, albeit representative of about 2/3 of Scotland. Jacobites were not representative of Great Britain (they wanted control of it again) but they never utilized the flag. It was not a war of Independence, but it was fought in the same regard in that the survival of the clan systems and Celtic culture depended on its outcome. I find it best that we cannot agree, and it would be more appropriate to leave the flag box blank rather than you to continuously defy the three RV rule.... -RiverHockey (talk) 19:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've removed the flags from the Jacobite bits, since that seems to be what you want - I'm just damn sure that the Saltire shouldn't be there. Not sure where you get the idea that the Jacobites represented 2/3 of Scotland from - they were a distinct minority concentrated between the Tay & the Moray Firth, amongst the Episcopalian & Catholic minorities. The way I see it, the Whigs were the majority in Scotland, but the Jacobites numerous enough that the Scottish Whigs needed support from English Whigs to guarantee victory.80.229.9.98 (talk) 20:34, 3 January 2008 (UTC)