Talk:Battle of Montgisard

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[edit] Political correctness

Society is smothered in Political correctness today. Why did the movie Kingdom of Heaven not include this Battle? I know its not decisive, despite being a costly defeat for the Arabs, but then again, why bother include so many other things?

Because it took place outside of the time frame of the movie? Because there isn't enough info to reconstruct it? Because the writers just didn't feel like it? Who knows? Who cares? Baldwin mentions it, at least. Adam Bishop 09:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] did it happen at all?

Ahem, i have doubts as to whether this battle ever took place: i've read, and am re-reading The Crusades Through Arab Eyes by Amin Maalouf, and no mention of it (yet, Mr Maalouf does not tend to skip over the muslims' defeats, that i've noticed); 2nd, i look in this 1957 Britannica, and have not found anything yet: nothing in the Saladin article, nor in the "Baldwin VI" (its main article, and all other references in the index checked), no entry in the index for "Mont Gisard"; no "Mont Gisard" in my french "Petit Larousse" (the equivalent of an english Webster College Edition). Googling "battle Montgisard" returns lots of hits, but i do wonder.
I added a banner requesting sources, and verification. TIA.

--Jerome Potts 10:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

This is one of those old articles that we never bothered to give sources for. Of course it happened, though. I don't see it in Maalouf either, and it's not in Gabrieli's Arab Historians of the Crusades, but it is mentioned by Baha ad-Din. Baha says it took place near Ramla, not Montgisard specifically, but Montgisard was just a little castle outside the city of Ramla. William of Tyre mentions it in detail. Steven Runciman notes that it is also mentioned in Ernoul, Michael the Syrian, Abu Shama, and Ibn al-Athir. Malcolm Lyons and D.E.P. Jackson list Imad ad-Din as well, but they question whether it really took place at Montgisard. Bernard Hamilton adds al-Maqrizi as a source. Apparently Roger des Moulins also wrote a letter about it. Of the primary sources I only have Baha ad-Din and William of Tyre handy, but they definitely mention it. Adam Bishop 17:01, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, sounds good. Thank you for the prompt reply. I hope you will find the time to include the refs. Hey, i see no article on Behaeddin; wanna create one? --Jerome Potts 05:29, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I rewrote some of it and added some sources. How is it now? Baha ad-Din does need an article, as does Imad ad-Din...someone will get around to them someday. Adam Bishop 09:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Very nice. Thank you. --Jerome Potts 18:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)