Talk:Battle of Mons Graupius
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. | ||||||||||
| Start | This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. | ||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
I was brought up in Scotland to understand that this battle was called 'Mons Grampus' and that somewhere in or around the Grampian Mountains in northern Scotland, to the west of Aberdeen, was the most likely location.
jim.mangles@ntlworld.com
It would seem that it is Graupius in the uncorrupted Latin text, but Grampius became the word in Scotland following a transcription error: http://www.agtb.org/the-romans.htm
Djnjwd 12:54, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Shouldn't someone mention the similarities of Mons Grapius and Nechantesmere? I've heard a theory that the terrain was nearly identical, and the Caledonian retreat in 83 was part of feigned retreat manouevre, like the one that annihilated the Anglo-Saxons at Dunnichen in 685. I know it sounds kinda iffy and "noble savage"-ish, but I think it's worth mentioning.
[edit] Calgacus, etc..
Nowhere is is said that Calgacus was the leader of the Caledonian army, he is merely somebody credited with making a speech. Which, in all likelihood, he never made in the first place. If, that is, he ever actually existed. Or if the battle itself ever really took place, for that matter. All of the "evidence" comes from Tacitus, about whomn Tertullian wrote: Cornelius Tacitus, however, - who, to say the truth, is most loquacious in falsehood and who is contradicted in other Scottish matters by archaeological evidence. Lianachan 15:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- See Talk:Calgacus. The battle figures reported are rather fanciful at least. It is unlikely, for instance, that Caledonia's population was much greater than 30000 (the alleged army size). Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 02:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
We need to look at the facts here. 1) The only "evidence" of this battle comes from Tacitus, the son in law of Agricola who could not possibly be considered a neutral source. 3) After the battle Agricola was recalled to Rome and removed from his command, possibly in disgrace. 4) The Romans after the battle abandoned their previous northern frontier of Antonine's wall, retreated behind Hadrians Wall,never seriously to venture into Caledonia again. 5) The Ninth Legion who marched north to subdue the Caledonians vanished off the face of the earth, never to be seen again - possibly totally anihilated by the Caledonians.
Roman history is probably the most unreliable ever, propoganda and not an accurate record.The known facts of this campaaign totally contradict Tacitus' account.
[edit] The Ninth Legion did not disappear in Caledonia
The Ninth Legion did not disappear in Caledonia, it was likelytransferred to Germania.
The ninth legion (or just a vexillatio of it?) was for a brief period after 121 at Noviomagus in Germania Inferior. (Around the same time VI Victrix moved from Germania Inferior to Britain, so it likely was a transfer). The fact that we know the names of several high officers of the Ninth who can not have served earlier than 122 (e.g., Lucius Aemilius Karus, governor of Arabia in 142/143), is another indication that the legion was not destroyed but transferred. This proves that it was still in existence during the reign of Hadrian. After this, the legion disappears from the sources. It may have been destroyed during the Jewish revolt of Simon ben Kosiba (132-136), in Cappadocia in 161, or during a revolt on the Danube in 162. There is an inscription from the reign of Marcus Aurelius (161-180) that sums up all legions, and VIIII Hispana is missing; this means that it was destroyed before or during his reign. Roy 18:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
