Talk:Battle of Mons Badonicus

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[edit] old talk

From Wikipedia:Featured article candidates (Revision as of 17:47, 8 Apr 2004) -- somehow my nomination was never added to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Archived nominations/Index (possibly because it gathered little interest at the time):

I am nominating this as an act of unabashed vanity -- & I'm amazed, not having read it for several months, that it still fairly close to what I strive for. I admit it needs some pictures. (I have the photos somewhere, & will scan them when I find them.) -- llywrch 23:40, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

  • Oppose, for now. The content seems good, but the article needs to be broken up into 3 or 4 sections. Gentgeen 17:47, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Quotation from the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle

This occupies a chunk of space in this article, but this passage already appears in an annotated translation at Ceawlin of Wessex. Should this be snipped out with a note to the user to refer to that article? -- llywrch 19:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me, it seems to be more relavant there.--Cúchullain t/c 19:21, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Needs references"

Please state which bits of information needs references. Anthony Appleyard 06:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

  1. I think the article has taken on the appearance of an outline with too many sections. Sections should try to be lengthy narratives, not one sentence long. Section headers should not be replacements for prose.
  2. Not sure why "Events in the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain" is in this article. Theoretically that section could be in every article that is mentioned. Perhaps the thing to do is make a 'list of' article, call it List of events in the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain then link to it from all the other articles as a central place.

--Stbalbach 12:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The translations from the ASC have become irrelevant to the point of distracting. I've chopped all of this section out, per my comments above. -- llywrch 00:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I've corrected the 'quotation' from Annales Cambriae. It has 'Bellum Badonis' for both battles, not Mount/mons or badonicus. The 'date' it gives has quite a wide range for an AD equivalent. I think the second battle of Badon is Bedanheafod of the ASC, which Plummer thought was a Great Bedwyn (covered more in my 'The Reign of Arthur', Sutton 2004, between Wulfhere of Mercia and the West Saxons. Geoffrey of Monmouth does not specify Little Solsbury Hill, just Bath. Chris Gidlow

[edit] Additional Link?

I was thinking about adding a link to http://www.dagorhir.com/badon/ in the section for popular media links. Since this is a combat recreation event named after the battle, I think it would fit in just as well as video games using the battle in them.

[edit] serious error

Only one comment that needs serious consideration: this article has a blatant error in the beginning, where the writer states that the Venerable Bede claimed in his Ecclesiastical History of the English People that Ambrosius Aurelianus as the victor at Badon Hill. This is not so. Bede makes no such claims, and he names no leader for that battle, as neither did Gildas. Bede was copying, almost word for word, Gildas's sixth century text; The Destruction and Conquest of Britain. If the Venerable Bede HAD made such a claim that Ambrosius had won Badon Hill, then there would be no great discussion as to who had won that battle today. The article writer has got their facts wrong on this account and it needs to be removed in order for it to be historically correct. The Venerable Bede did NOT claim this battle for Ambrosius Aurelianus. Wikipedia articles must be objective, with content based on evidence and fact if they are to have any value to researchers; or if Wikipedia itself is to have any value. The 'fact' of Ambrosius in this article is wrong.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by TwoRiders (talk • contribs).

This is a bit odd. I'd hardly say such a claim would constitute a 'serious error'. Neither Bede nor Gildas say that Ambrosius Aurelianus led the British at Badon Hill, but they both name him as being the leader of the British resistance, a resistance that culminated in the victory at Badon. Ecclesiastical History, ch. 64: 'Their leader at this time was Ambrosius Aurelianus... Under his leadership the British took up arms, challenged their conquerors to battle, and with God's help inflicted a defeat on them. Thenceforward victory swung first to one side and then the other, until the battle of Badon Hill, when the Britons made a considerable slaughter of their invaders.' Therefore it seems a reasonable assumption that Bede and Gildas meant to imply that he was there. At the moment, all the article says is 'More recently, scholars guessed that the Romano-British leader could have been Ambrosius Aurelianus'; it's hardly a recent assumption. I think Ambrosius needs to move up the page! 131.111.195.8 (talk) 22:05, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Python reference?

Is this the "Battle of Badon Hill" at which Brave Sir Robin personally wet himself? Applejuicefool (talk) 15:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Never mind. I guess it helps to read the article before I ask stupid questions. Applejuicefool (talk) 15:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article name

I'm all for the Gaelic, except that it is not best known by that name and this is not the Gaelic wiki, its the english, this article name should be Battle of Badon Hill, which is how it is referred to in most media. Google backs up this assertion as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 15:12, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

It's also given the English name, and that is used as the most common one. The Welsh is simply given as another name for it, as has been done on many other pages. There's no reason it should be removed. ---G.T.N. (talk) 17:15, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
"Mons Badonicus" is actually Latin, not Welsh... If "Badon Hill" were a modern name of a hill which was definitely known to be the place of the battle, then the article would be renamed as you suggest, but in reality no one knows where "Badon Hill" was. AnonMoos (talk) 01:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I apologize, I was confused. I thought the reference to the english and welsh versions of the name. I wasn't paying very good attention. Yeah, the actuall title should be changed, as most people don't speak Latin! :)---G.T.N. (talk) 23:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I would agree with GTN if I were sure "Badon Hill" was in fact the common name. But "Mount Badon" is common as well (perhaps even more so), and so is just Badon, and it is not as if Mons Badonicus is uncommon. I'm almost inclined to suggest we go with Battle of Mount Badon. We should also note that Gildas actually uses the Latin phrase "obsessio Badonici montis", or "seige of Mount Badon".--Cúchullain t/c 22:40, 12 April 2008 (UTC)