Talk:Battle of Germantown

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    Contents

    [edit] Mount Airy?

    The intro to the "Battle" section mentions Mount Airy. Was this a toponym in use at the time? JesseRafe 02:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

    William Allen's country estate ("Mount Airy") was built there in the 1750s, and it does appear as though it was in use by the time to reference the area. Alphageekpa 12:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

    Where is the evidence for this designation at the time of the battle? The main action of the battle took place in what is now considered Mount Airy, but I have never heard it referred to as the Battle of Mount Airy. If you look on the Mount Airy site, there are two footnoted references to the origination of the place name. The first indicates that the area was referred to as Beggarstown, a corruption of Bebberstown, a named derived from one of the early settlers. The first reference to Mount Airy referenced on its Wikipedia site dates to 1843. Even then the area would only have been an unofficial place name in the German Township. I am going to update the reference to Mount Airy to include the phrase "now known as," since its general use in the 18th century has not been established. Bryanstreet 14:45, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Reason for attaching Cliveden house

    At the reenactment of the Battle of Germantown, a Cliveden house representative said that the Continental troops attacked the house because the British Troops in the house were those responsible for the "Massacre at Paoli" and the Continentals wanted "payback".

    Could someone familiar with the details add this bit of history?

    209.36.79.10 14:16, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

    I can't say that I've ever seen indication of such in any publications. Christopher Ward, in War of the Revolution (page 366) states that Washington held a council of war regarding how to handle the Chew house, and General Knox argued that a tenant of classical military science is that "While penetrating an enemy country, you must not leave an occupied castle in your rear." Washington agreed, "always respectful of Knox's larger store of military science." Alphageekpa (talk) 12:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] Draw?

    The text says "Decisive British victory," but somebody changed the box from DBV to "Draw." I'm no expert, so I've changed the box to "British victory" and will let the experts decide this one. Smallbones (talk) 16:11, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] Not simply a "British victory"

    I don't see why this battle keeps being altered to just "British victory" with a highly unreliable source (Evident that Washington is not listed as an American commander, and Mawhood is listed as the British commander, when he in fact commanded at Princeton). Whether people want to change things using highly unreliable sources is up to them, but it obviously doesn't gain much credence. This battle was a decisive victory on the grounds that if the battle succeeded, a large portion of the British army would have been destroyed there and then, perhaps ending the war there and then before Yorktown had a chance to even happen. On top of that, it prevented the Colonial re-capture of both Germantown and perhaps even Philadelphia. So, how about some discussion before altering with unreliable sources? (Trip Johnson (talk) 22:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC))

    Your're the one who originally altered this. (Red4tribe (talk) 22:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC))

    If you guys put the amount of effort into cleaning up this article (and there is PLENTY of room for improvement), instead of bickering about "Decisive British victory" vs. "British victory", this article would be FA!!! Alphageekpa (talk) 00:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
    And, oh, the sources! We're just sliding backwards! This article gets worse by the day. With all the publications out there about Germantown, why must the list of sources be what it is? These websites certainly leave much to be desired. Alphageekpa (talk) 00:35, 29 April 2008 (UTC) (sitting by the wayside while these two finish-out their edit war)

    [edit] Administrators Noticeboard

    This article has mentioned there. It does seem that some edit waring is erupting. Perhaps User:Trip Johnson and User:Red4tribe could simply agree here that "decisive" may be a bit POV without a source to say so? -JodyB talk 23:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

    I have asked him probably 4 times on the histroy page. (Red4tribe (talk))

    The problem you have landed yourself with Red, is I could go through every battle on wikipedia, take "Decisive" off, and demand a source to claim it is decisive. I could go to Camden, Cowpens, Yorktown, Saratoga and take decisive off of all of them, and demand a source to say it is decisive. It is just stupid Red, you are being childish now, so just leave it alone. (Trip Johnson (talk) 16:28, 30 April 2008 (UTC))


    If you wish to do that, go ahead. I bet I could come up with one for each of them. In your eyes Trenton is not decisive, but yet how is this? (Red4tribe (talk) 20:42, 30 April 2008 (UTC))

    User:Trip Johnson was blocked for edit waring. I have reverted this to the previous version for the following reasons;

    1. The present term "British victory" is sourced and cited with a footnote. "Decisive is not."
    2. "Decisive" is a POV edit if not backed up by a source.
    3. The above comment is irrelevant to this discussion.

    All users are reminded to avoid waring and to seek dispute resolution early. --JodyB talk 23:14, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] Washington overconfident section

    Can this be looked at and sourced? This reads like original research but I have little expertise. Thank you. --70.109.223.188 (talk) 17:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

    Agreed. I've deleted section. Alphageekpa (talk) 10:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] Philadelphia was what kind of capital

    Very recently, somebody called Philadelphia the "provincial capital". This is misleading. Although the city *was* the capital of the Province of Pennsylvania, during the war it was the capital for the united rebellious 13 colonies. Hurmata (talk) 06:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

    Yes, that factual error was indeed corrected in a recent edit. Alphageekpa (talk) 09:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] Market Square versus Wayne Junction

    It is false that the southern end of Germantown was at present day Wayne Junction, because Wayne Junction is a full mile south of Market Square. Besides the main source for this article (an article on the Web by the Penn. Hist. and Museum Commission), check out the clickable map here: http://www.ushistory.org/germantown/lower/market.htm. Market Square is at the top and Stenton -- the HQ of British commander Gen. Howe -- is at the bottom. *Stenton* mansion is at present day Wayne Junction (which I know because I'm personally familiar with the Wayne Junction railyard). Hurmata (talk) 06:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)