Talk:Battle of Brunanburh

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[edit] Location of battle

I don't want to edit the actual article as I have little knowledge of Anglo-Saxon history but here is a link to a BBC News article detailing a recent claim to establishing the location of the battle. Oska 09:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Primary sources

"Primary sources regarding details of the battle come from the Anglo-Saxon poem of the same name that is in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, the writings of Anglo-Norman historian William of Malmesbury, the Annals of Tigernach, the Brut y Tywysogion and Icelandic sagas such as the Saga of Egill Skallagrimsson, who fought for Athelstan."

This is a misunderstanding of the meaning of the term "primary sources" William of Malmesbury was not alive at the time of the battle, his writings are a secondary source, as are Icelandic sagas that may mention the battle. A primary source is a source which was present at the battle. This must be rewritten. William of Malmesbury etc are secondary, not primary, sources.--Barend 17:25, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't disagree more. For historical purposes, those are the sources, which means they are primary sources. The secondary sources are historians who analyse the primary source material, along with the other evidence. Tertiary sources are encyclopedia/dictionary articles. Of course, Egil's Saga is fiction, and Malmesbury is a medieval chronicler, so they are not quite the same as the ASC or the Irish and Welsh annals. Still not secondary sources though. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, I would respectfully argue that your definition is wrong. A primary source is a source composed by someone who has witnessed the events he/she describes. The poet of the Anglo-Saxon poem may well be a primary source. A secondary source is someone who bases his narrative on what he has heard from others, or read elsewhere. Historians who analyse the primary source material, as you correctly put it. Malmesbury is a medieval historian. He analysed the sources available to him, and wrote his account, which is therefore a secondary source. The same goes for the author of Egil's saga, if one chooses to regard that at as history rather than fiction (which I, and most historians, don't).--Barend 23:06, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Technically you are correct, but there is of course a real difference between William of Malmesbury and modern secondary sources. Malmesbury gets analysed by modern historians as if he were a primary source. Some information on Anglo-Saxon history is not found in any source earlier than the fifteenth century; these can't be realistically treated as secondary sources, which would imply they should be assessed for reliability by the editor of the Wikipedia page rather than by a scholar. (I'm not saying you're implying this, just that the fact that William of Malmesbury is not technically a primary source doesn't automatically make him a secondary source.)
Perhaps we could avoid the question by changing it to be "Early sources regarding details of the battle"? Mike Christie (talk) 23:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
That is an excellent suggestion.207.157.121.92 (talk) 17:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] background/location

While I have the mike, two suggestions. First, the all-too brief and somewhat strained 'background' section needs to be rewritten, with for instance Peter Hunter Blair's book as a cue (mentioned at the bottom of the article though never cited). I may do this at some point. Second, there is a reference to Alistair Campbell in the 'location' section, but whoever wrote that failed to give any kind of specific information. Campbell was in fact an editor of the poem--way back in 1938. This is the kind of gratuitous reference that gives Wikipedia a bad name...207.157.121.92 (talk) 17:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)