Talk:Batman supporting characters

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Contents

[edit] Merge

The article Supporting characters of Batman has been merged onto this page. The merge discussion and proposal have been archived at Talk:Batman Family/Supporting characters of Batman ~CS 21:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Batsquad

Isn't BatSquad a designation more suitable than Batman Family ? Lesfer (talk) 15:34, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I think Batman Family (or Bat Family) has been used more often. Also, it was the title of a comic series involving the (surprise!) Batman Family. -- Ipstenu 16:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Ok. Lesfer (talk) 18:58, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Onyx?

Should we put her as a former member? She doesn't seem to be around OYL -- Ipstenu 16:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

questionable. maybe list her as status unknown? Exvicious 22:33, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I vaguely remember her being killed. I think someone from the Society killed her when they were after Batgirl. It's one of the last issues of Batgirl, when it's set in Bludhaven and right before she went on the quest to find the League of Assassins. --Chris Griswold 00:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Jason left her stuck to a wall with a knife. May still be there, knowing Bruce... but I don't believe she died.D1Puck1T 15:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anarky?

Did he ever hang out with Batman? You know, fighting people and punching them and kicking them and solving crimes? That kind of thing? --Chris Griswold 00:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Anarky was sort of fighting crime, but he was mostly doing his own thing. but i don't think batman approved and sent him to some sort of detention center. Exvicious 03:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bat Family?

There's a another article called Bat Family. Should we merge this with the Batman Family article? 12.37.71.164 02:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Nothing needed to merge, it's all here. I redirected that page to this one. No one links to it. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 06:36, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Batman Family or Batman supporting characters

Now that it [[[Batman Family]] & Supporting characters of Batman] has been merged, can we get back to the discussion of what it should be called? It seemed to me that people were leaning toward merging to Supporting characters of Batman. --Chris Griswold 20:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Batman Family is what it was referred to by the DCU, and it even had it's own comic for a while. I support the current name. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 00:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe characters like Harvey Bullock are considered part of the Batman Family. When the series was published, it essentially covered Batman, Robin, Batgirl, and Alfred. The majority of characters on the list are supporting characters, of which, Batman Family is only a subset. The proposed merge was for Supporting characters of Batman; I'm not sure why it was moved here instead. Because it seems arbitrary and not in keeping with the original merge notice nor any sort of concensus, I am moving it to the proper location. --Chris Griswold 06:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Why exactly was this moved before consensus was reached here, less than a day after the discussion was opened? The merge debate ended up in favor of Batman Family with an agreement to discuss a namespace move later. ~CS 09:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
At any rate -- I agree with Ipstenu, that the name should remain at Batman Family. I believe this term is far more inclusive than just the inner-circle, and is not the subset, but the umbrella title. ~CS 09:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm moving it back. Chris, this was Bold but you didn't really give anyone but you or me time to say anything, which was impolite, nor did you call for votes. The fact that we ended up with Batman Family after the merge of the two articles is fair evidence that the title that (currently) won out was BF. If you want to change it, please start up a slightly more formal call for votes, okay? -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 13:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Right. Here's what I said on the day of the merge: "Since the specific issue of what page to merge into is at 2 to 1 for Batman Family I'm merging there. If there are objections, we can have another poll in a day or two to suggest a name change. ~CS 18:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)" ~CS 19:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Batman family, with a redirect here from Batman supporting characters. It's a close thing, but I think it's better this way.D1Puck1T 15:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Batman Family → Batman supporting characters – {New name is more inclusive; "Batman Family" refers to characters like Robin and Batgirl, but the article lists other, independent superheroes and civilian characters not considered part of the "Batman Family" --Chris Griswold 15:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)} copied from the entry on the WP:RM page

[edit] Survey

When you said to re-post this officially, didn't you say you were going to support it? --Chris Griswold 22:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
No, I said I supported the fact that you were making this official, even though I disagreed with it. I don't support your call to just move it without waiting for a vote, but re-reading what I wrote, I see the confusion and apologize.. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 23:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I believe we just interpreted the results from the previous merge I called for differently. You chose to move it here; I felt that because of the votes, if anything was to be done with it, it should go to the proposed location. --Chris Griswold 01:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Support --InShaneee 20:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Neutral. Redirects are free. However, shouldn't this be at Batman family? If an article on the publication were to be created, I would support the move, but until that point, I think it matters little where the content is, and more that the content is the best it can be. Hiding Talk 16:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Support is this survey over? Exvicious 08:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

The concensus was unclear before where the article should go; I want to make it clear and official. --Chris Griswold 15:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

There was once a publication called "Batman Family." This article should be that publication, and the Supporting characters of Batman should be about the characters. See Superman Family and supporting characters of Superman for parallel examples. CovenantD 15:44, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Whatever the decision about the page name, I agree that there should be more information about the title. But I'm afraid I've never read any of it, beside a story or two in TPB collections. ~CS 19:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Chris' proposal of making the pagename Batman supporting characters rather than Supporting characters of Batman, however. The later uses a strange possessive voice that doesn't make sense for a fictional character, and the former puts the primary subject as the first word of the article. ~CS 19:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

To recap what was said before: Although I can work with it either way, I do believe that "Batman Family" is a more inclusive term than Chris Griswold does. It is not limited to the close group of regulars (Robin, Nightwing, Alfred, Oracle, et al) but also includes the extended network (Gordon, Bullock, Fox, Thompkins). Since this term "Batman Family" exists, I think it works better than a generic title. ~CS 19:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I feel that, since the term is so popular, that it's logically the first place one looks for the supporting characters. It's like a disambig link: if the first 'batman' that comes to mind is the superhero and not the officer's assistant, then the main link should be for the hero. Same with Batman Family. I think it's a broad and inclusive term that can expand to cover the cops and others. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 20:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I too feel that the article should be about the comic book series of the same name, while a "Batman supporting characters" article should cover those characters that have been part of the mythos without being important enough to deserve their own wikipedia articles. (Bullock, Vesper Fairchild, etc.) I've never seen the heroes of Gotham City call themselves "Batman Family" (even if technically some of them are, due to their emotional relationships.) We should go what's official in the comics. The article should have links to other Gotham heroes, however, in the "See Also" section. - Wilfredo Martinez 02:51, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Good points, Wilfredo, as usual. --Chris Griswold 04:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Wilfredo makes pertinent points, I find myself in agreement. Hiding Talk 16:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Damn. I don't want to agree, but I am. Damn you Wilfredo, for a good point! ;) -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 16:46, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks... I think. ;) -Wilfredo Martinez 14:47, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved

It seems clear that the majority is in favor, or at least not opposed, and the arguments are good ones. So, I moved it. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 03:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Love interests images

I believe in using images for illustration on Wikipedia, but isn't this a bit much for one section? ~CS 14:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've tried a copyedit and image hack. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 15:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I do like the theme of similarly-composed pictures of an embrace and a kiss flowing down the page, however. Perhaps someone could scan the picture of Talia in BATMAN #244 ("The Demon Lives Again") to continue the flow? ~CS 16:17, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, but then we end up with WAY too many images on the page. Again. So it sort of sounds like your contradicting yourself. Catwoman is perennial, and if we put in Talia, we should take out Sasha. Also, I think the movie still is a better juxtaposition than the Hush image, since if shows you Bruce/Selina, which is a much a fuction of their relationship as Batman/Catwoman. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs)
I was thinking exactly what Carnyfoke suggests below: The B:TAS image seems awkward to me, and it could be replaced with a good picture of Talia. I'm ambivalent about the Sasha picture -- I do like the image itself, but disagree with Carnyfoke that she's one of three most important relationships, but the fact that it's the most recent might mean its deserving of its spot. As far as the movie still goes, I don't think it works visually -- all I see are two actors in a scene that could be from any movie. ~CS 05:06, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't know. It seems kinda unfair to have two Catwoman images and not have one referencing the relationship that Batman most likely had a child with (Talia). Can't we just replace the B:TAS Bat/Cat pic with one (a good one) of Talia? I believe that the three most important relationships that Bats has ever had are Sasha, Talia, and Selina, as they have had the greatest impact on the character and his history. So I'm of the opinion that all three should have pics up. --Carnyfoke 02:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)Carnyfoke
I was just trying to get images to reflect the multiple media incarnation of Bats+Cats. And I would have said the most important love interests are Selina and Talia only. Sasha's not got that much history behind her (only a few RL years), when you look at decades for Selina. And yeah, Talia too. But if someone dropped of comic for ten years, Sasha remains a 'who the hell?' She's not even showing up in Bats anymore, even as a guest. She's only important cause she's recent, I feel. Selina and Talia, yes. Wonder Woman ... there was one issue and while my fangirl heart adores that idea *hee!*, it's not canon and not 'big' so no image. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 11:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links

The little links that someone put in to replace the Poison Ivy books referenced in the Love Interests section don't work. Could somebody fix them so that they do? Or maybe just bring the original Ivy book references back? --71.110.16.11 02:47, 6 September 2006 (UTC)Carnyfoke

[edit] Deathstroke Drugging

At this point I feel it is presumptive to conclude that all of Cass's behavior OYL are attributed to the drugging by Deathstroke. Setting aside arguments that she may be injected with other materials other than that of Rose and/or Rose's own abilites to fight her father's chemical and Machivellian manipulation, mind control does not necessarily yield that she is not still innately evil. Cassie could still be the killer leader of the League of Assassins and was brainwashed/drugged to pull her away from the group. In short, until we see conclusively that she is not acting of her own fruition for EVERYTHING OYL, we shouldn't attribute Slade as the sole cause. 66.109.248.114

I don't follow Batgirl, but I tried to address this a little today when correcting the grammatical problem with Cassandra's entry. ~CS 03:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Toyman?

Does he actually have "Bat-Family" status?~ZytheTalk to me! 13:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Batman Family section

I think sections of this article might been to restructured, particularly the Batman Family section. There doesn't seem to be any criteria for being included as a member of the Bat-Family other than the whim of the person editing, which sorta borders on original research. BlankHole 01:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jezebel Jet

She needs to be added to love interests 24.164.136.207 (talk) 22:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)