Talk:Bass oboe

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The Grove entry for baritone oboe cross references to bass oboe. Del arte 20:00, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In its present form, I think this article risks compounding the confusion between the bass oboe and the heckelphone. E.g. Havergal Brian's "bass oboe" (in symphonies 1 & 4) was certainly meant to be the heckelphone (his writing shows an awareness of the extended range of the heck., and his musical horizons tended to be thoroughly Germanic, and in his early period Straussian in particular - he was well aware of Salome and Elektra, both of which use the heck.) I can't speak with the same authority about other composers, but as things stand Holst, Brian and Delius are all claimed by both the "bass oboe" and "heckelphone" articles. Assuming the Delius info given here is correct (I have no reason to doubt it), does anyone have anything definite on which instrument Holst and others would have intended? (Or is it the case that, as I wrote in the heck. article, "In some cases, it is possible that the composers themselves were unclear as to the distinction between the two instruments"?)

Two other issues: as I understand it, each heckelphone is produced to the individual specification of the one placing the order, so one can't generalise about the fingering being different. (Let us know if you have any different info.) Also, a contrabass oboe would be of similar range to the bassoon, not the contrabassoon. Vilcxjo 01:37, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the heckelphone and bass oboe entries need to be merged since the instruments are so often confused (by performers, composers, audiences, etc.); the baritone oboe in Paris in the 1830s is a different instrument than either of the two. I've taken some photos of baritone oboes (and contrabass oboes) as I find them, and there are as many differences between each one as similarities. --Myke Cuthbert 21:31, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

That may be the case, but the heckelphone and the bass/baritone oboe are not in the same family. The heckelphone is not an oboe. Badagnani 21:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that there are fundamental differences that make them not the same instrument, but I think some writers have disagreed, calling the Heckelphone is a type of oboe. I think it's a problem that Wikipedia articles don't generally get titles such as "Heckelphone and Bass Oboe" which would make clear that the two are different but share much in common (especially the repertory). Right now the Heckelphone is listed under "oboe family," in the navigation box. Do you disagree with this categorization? (btw--thanks for fixing the red link on my User page; I have no clue why WP is case sensitive...) --Myke Cuthbert 22:19, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I play both oboe and heckelphone and would answer your question "yes" in some contexts and "no" in others. As with the tubax and subcontrabass saxophone, there are differences in bore that set the two apart, while for all intents and purposes the subcontrabass tubax is a sax, albeit a more manageable one. I do support having both complementary articles but think it's fine to keep heckelphone in the template as a lower version of the oboe, as that's the essential reason it was developed. Badagnani 23:03, 5 May 2007 (UTC)